Gary '09 C6

^ on the track at SM, you could really feel the difference between the Z06 and ZR1 in the first three gears...quite noticeable.
On the street, somewhat harder to tell due to the need to limit things...

forg0tmypen

I don't know if Id go as far as to say I'm "justifying" my purchase of a Z06. I just wasn't all that impressed. I guess I expected more. And what I got was "ok it's a little faster". I still want one but I am happy with what I have and I can say that with more certainty now that I've driven both.*

camirocz

Oh my god.Lets be honest for a minute.Carbon ceramic brakes,638 h.p ,magnetic ride,19 and 20 inch wheels ,and on and on.What isnt there in a zr1 to prefer it to a 2006 z06?The zr1 is much more than only 2 tenths faster in a drag race.Fartpipe proved it by going 10.26 at over 133 mph.For sure on street tires it is very hard to put down 638h.p and make the car hook up perfectly but just do a roll race with a zr1 and see what happens.As all of us do, i love my z06 but the two cars are not that close in overall performance as some people seem to think.133 h.p difference is huge and its got to show somewhere!

mirage2991

oh but recall the vast differences between the base and z06... or the lack of, depending who you talk to... lol

Turbooo2u

But can you spell H-E-A-T-S-O-A-K? Fart's slip shows 10.474. As I said, if you crunch ALL the numbers from various sources, you get a much better picture of what the cars are capable of in a straight line, and it still averages out to TWO TENTHS!

FrankTank

I think it's more of a case of Z06 owners are damned if they do, or damned if they don't I remember all of those threads, and even regret myself wasting time even participating in some of those.

As Airbus points out below, anyone defending the Z06 over the GS was labled a "hater" and told "well you only drive the car to starbucks and because you are not a track junky you don't push the car anyway so you don't know its limits" blahh blahh blahh lot of Trash talk and chest pounding

Now, the OP has DRIVEN the ZR1 and simply given his opinion he likes his car and does not feel there is enough "gap" in acceleration and quickness to justify the cost difference.. so you want to lable him in that group...

I don't think so. I disagree. So long as someone has driven BOTH cars they are comparing, it's their opinion simply stated. If someone says they can't justify the price gab between a GS and Z06, and says there is not a big enough gap in power between the 2 cars and settles for a GS...well thats fine, that's their opinion...same here with the Z06 vs the ZR1

What I will say is , often times in these debates I find people are ONLY caught up in the Peak HP of both cars 436 vs 505 or 505 vs 638 ...and the other things the car or model offers are forgotten.

I do disagree with the OP in that I think the ZR1 is more than just 133 HP over the Z06... you have to factor in the carbon parts, brake package, tires it comes with ..etc.. GM realizes this too which is why I think they started to offer Z07 package, to get the ZR1 goodies with Z06 motor.

IMO the ZR1 really shines at the TOP of the Speedo...the two cars are close until you start getting up into triple digits,,and The ZR1 starts to walk the Z06 (and I am a Z06 owner )

camirocz

Never only two tenths as i said earlier there is 133 h.p seperating the two cars and that is a lot!Go side by side at 40mph and floor both cars and see for yourself what happens. by the time the cars are doing 160mph there should be a football field seperating them.The z06 is very fast, the zr1 is simply even faster,as it should be, given the extra horsepower its engine puts out.

camirocz

Let me add this although i wont make any new friends by doing it:There is only one stock z06 trapping 130 mph there are dozens of zr1 cars going through the traps at 133mph.I dont know about any of you but 130mph in a bone stock z06 seems very very hard to do.123 to 125 which is about average is a heck of a long way from 130.

LEAVINU

Don't get all sensitive on me.

If you don't mind please excuse my while I cherry pick one more time:
Brad's own words....
"I think I want to stay with little to no car payment and race, have fun and then pick up another ZR1 down the road when the price comes down a bit more."

Hmmmm, wonder why he's already considering another ZR1 in the future if it's not all that much better of a car overall?!

What fools were making those claims!

Sure the ZR1 heatsoaks worst but it's FI, what would you expect untuned? I've seen stock Z's drop from 440-450rwhp to 410-420rwhp after back to back runs in the GA heat. Heatsoak effects all performance cars not just the ZR1 so I don't get your point of noting that.




My apologies to the OP if I came across as labeling your own experience here with others before. I read back what I wrote and I can see how that would be the message recieved but I honestly wasn't calling you out. More so the others I've been going back and forth with.

sublime1996525

Good comparison. I can't afford a ZR1 so I'll stay with the Z06. But like someone else said which ever one you prefer you still have one of the best performing cars on the road

Jawnathin

I am hesitant to even get involved in this thread, I think I can add some value around the heatsoak aspect of these cars. While most cars will see a rise in intake temperatures and slight loss of power when sitting around, it affects cars like the ZR1 with its Top Mounted Intercooler (TMIC) more significantly.

The issue with ZR1 is that the intercooler (which is mounted above the engine) gets warm and holds that heat when there is no airflow. All the heat from the motor just soaks into the intercooler. Its sole purpose is to cool down intake temps but when it gets hot, it serves as a space heater instead. So not only does the hot intercooler cause a loss of power, it also must cool back down to become effective again.

My daily driver has a TMIC and it also suffers from heatsoak when sitting around. The NA motors like the LS3 and LS7 don't suffer nearly as bad as the setup in an LSA/LS9. As a matter of fact, I'd say its not even noticeable on my LS7, but quite noticeable on my daily driver.

In short, the performance compromises resulting from heatsoak in a TMIC is much more significant than other setups in both reduction of overall power lost and the length of time that heatsoak occurs.

Gary '09 C6

...so, how can the heatsoak with a TMIC be mitigated ?

Turbooo2u

Sure the ZR1 heatsoaks worst but it's FI, what would you expect untuned? I've seen stock Z's drop from 440-450rwhp to 410-420rwhp after back to back runs in the GA heat. Heatsoak effects all performance cars not just the ZR1 so I don't get your point of noting that.





[/QUOTE]

proven fact that ZR1's LS9, as a FI engine, heatsoaks more as a percentage than the LS7. Talk to the guys at Spring Mountain who race them.

forg0tmypen

Let me make something clear: I would drive a ZR1 over a Z06 anyway of the week. But for the money, and for what I use the car for, it isn't IMO worth it to me and doesnt make sense right now. When they come down in price in the next few years or so, I'll consider trading up. For now, I still love my Z06 and all it offers. GM got this platform right from day 1 and that is becoming more and more obvious everytime I drive one of the newer models.

OnPoint

Just keep her moving. The ZR under way, and with air flowing, does quite well on heat management. If you run her hard and park her tho, she will need cooled down.

That's why you see the ZR ripping up the 'Ring - a very lengthy course - with massive throttle inputs and heat impact is not an issue. It's moving and cooling. Working and then sitting, she needs cooled down, or she needs moved to bring the air flow.

Thus, the whole "heat soak" issue is a bit overblown. I've worked the ZR on road course and repeated standing mile runs. And I worked my Z-06 in both contexts as well. And the only arena I concluded it was a significant issue in comparison to the Z was back-to-back 1/4 runs or back-to-back standing mile runs, where you're sitting between full-on blasts.

Gary '09 C6

^ thanks....that pretty much sums-up what I've read about so far.

G

Jawnathin

Well, think of the intercooler as a radiator for intake temperatures (which is what it is). Just like a radiator for coolant, the way to cool it off is to have air flowing on it, so just keep moving.

When it sits on top of an engine, as the heat from the engine rises, it can get pretty warm. Its when you sit in traffic, sit between drag runs, or doing back to back pulls on a dyno, it can become a problem. Driving at a steady speed without stops (city or highway) should be sufficient in keeping it cool.

For my daily driver (a Mazdaspeed3), I upgraded the stock TMIC to a thicker and higher flowing unit. Because it is thicker, it takes longer for heatsoak to become an issue and once I get going, the intercooler cools down sooner since it's superior flow allows heat to dissipate more quickly.

However, for some this is not good enough and they often upgrade to a front mount intercooler (FMIC). This sits near the front of the car by the radiator, so it doesn't get hit by the rising heat from the engine and cools down very quickly since its getting cool air through the grill/bumper.

Sorry, import pictures here, but bear with me. Here is what a TMIC in my car looks like. It sits right on top of the motor.



Here is a FMIC before the bumper is added. You can see the older top mounted intercooler was removed.



And here it is finally mounted with the bumper. You can see it gets direct air flow when moving, so it stays very cool. And because its not sitting on top of the engine, it doesn't get very warm. In theory, these can be affected by heatsoak if they get hot too, but generally heatsoak isn't a problem with these since they don't get very hot due to their superior location and heat dissipation.




I don't think there are too many (if any) FMIC options for a ZR1, but I added these details in case you were curious to see what method others are doing to reduce heatsoak on their cars. As long as one can fit, the same principals apply to a ZR1 as well.

Gary '09 C6

^ thanks for taking the time to post/explain...interesting alternative !

Note, I'm not having any problems with my car; just like learning all I can about these things...

Jawnathin

I am glad I could pass on some helpful information.

Different manufacturers have different methods of placing intercoolers but generally the two main intercooler locations are the top and front. TMICs are generally easier to package and require less room/plumbing. A side benefit to this is better throttle response since there is less piping. FMICs are heavier and harder to fit due to the extra plumbing but better in minimizing heat soak.

I do agree that heatsoak is blown out of proportion and it generally is not a problem in most real world scenarios. I just wanted to clear up some confusion around what heatsoak really is and why it impacts some cars more than others.

LS9Drew

Bigger Heat Exchanger can help with the Heat soak issue along with a bigger coolant reservoir for the Intercooler