[Z06] LS7 valve guide news.
04-02-2015, 07:45 PM
#201
What do you consider is a "minimal upcharge"(over a "wiggle test") to remove and replace the heads along with a full disassembly of both heads and measuring each valve and it's corresponding guide, and then reassemble the heads and install new head gaskets and new head bolts along with an oil change?
Isn't GM the original "wiggle Crew"(and not any CF members)as they said that was the "test" that their dealers should perform to evaluate the valve guides?
Isn't GM the original "wiggle Crew"(and not any CF members)as they said that was the "test" that their dealers should perform to evaluate the valve guides?
.....
4) Wiggle Testing is "out" at GM. In early March, GM released to its dealers an update to ESI mandating a new procedure for measuring stem-to-guide clearance for warranty purposes in all high-performance engines. It requires a hole gauge to measure guides and a micrometer to measure valve stems or a valve guide bore gauge, such as a Sunnun P310, and must be done with the heads removed and disassembled.
4) Wiggle Testing is "out" at GM. In early March, GM released to its dealers an update to ESI mandating a new procedure for measuring stem-to-guide clearance for warranty purposes in all high-performance engines. It requires a hole gauge to measure guides and a micrometer to measure valve stems or a valve guide bore gauge, such as a Sunnun P310, and must be done with the heads removed and disassembled.
That really isn't an indicator of a bad guide. A fair number of my guides measured .0019, .0021, .0024 which are all within GM's production specs. All of those valves could be wiggled by pushing on them. As the guide clearances grew larger you could see more movement but just the fact they moved didn't prove anything.
Bill
Bill
To your first question, any "test" worth doing, is a test which will offer results which you can hang your hat on.
Considering the potential risk, I consider anything under $500.00 to be a minimal fee to get an accurate reading, vs money wasted to get an inaccurate reading.
....
The difference in cost between doing a complete wiggle test and pulling the heads to measure the guides with the proper gauges is about $400 if nothing is found wrong. That $400 covers the labor to R&R the heads plus materials and the labor to make and document the measurements. The owner agrees to pay the cost up front and if a problem is found GM will pick up that cost plus the cost of replacements/repairs. Same as the wiggle test approach but with a more accurate result.
The difference in cost between doing a complete wiggle test and pulling the heads to measure the guides with the proper gauges is about $400 if nothing is found wrong. That $400 covers the labor to R&R the heads plus materials and the labor to make and document the measurements. The owner agrees to pay the cost up front and if a problem is found GM will pick up that cost plus the cost of replacements/repairs. Same as the wiggle test approach but with a more accurate result.
Definitely worth that upcharge to get a dead nuts on accurate result, vs spending money for a a "maybe" result.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 04-02-2015 at 07:51 PM.
04-02-2015, 07:48 PM
#202
Melting Slicks
Ahhh, it must be a new year. Time for Ricky to flip flop once again. 2 years ago GM didn't do anything wrong and it was the owners fault their engines were blowing up. Last year GM was the devil and anything they said was a big fat lie. This year Ricky believes whatever GM says because Hib told him so.
Thanks for the years of comedy. What will he do next folks??
Like I said. Attempting to debunk. But I know you and your boy love information backed up by nothing as long as it serves your agenda.
Hows your much needed SS valves and dual springs doing?? Ohhh thats right, your going to switch out those dual springs after someone conducted an actual test and proved they were crap.
Yeah... damn those tests and their practical research. Ricky likes to live in rumor land.
04-02-2015, 07:55 PM
#203
Ahhh, it must be a new year. Time for Ricky to flip flop once again. 2 years ago GM didn't do anything wrong and it was the owners fault their engines were blowing up. Last year GM was the devil and anything they said was a big fat lie. This year Ricky believes whatever GM says because Hib told him so.
Thanks for the years of comedy. What will he do next folks??
Like I said. Attempting to debunk. But I know you and your boy love information backed up by nothing as long as it serves your agenda.
Hows your much needed SS valves and dual springs doing?? Ohhh thats right, your going to switch out those dual springs after someone conducted an actual test and proved they were crap.
Yeah... damn those tests and their practical research. Ricky likes to live in rumor land.
Thanks for the years of comedy. What will he do next folks??
Like I said. Attempting to debunk. But I know you and your boy love information backed up by nothing as long as it serves your agenda.
Hows your much needed SS valves and dual springs doing?? Ohhh thats right, your going to switch out those dual springs after someone conducted an actual test and proved they were crap.
Yeah... damn those tests and their practical research. Ricky likes to live in rumor land.
You still whining about "flip flopping". That must be a New York thing, because really nobody gives a $#**. :
BTW, look who else just "flip flopped", and said that they no longer consider what some of you guys call the "wiggle test".
I think it was GM.
Now go pissing and moaning to them about "flip flopping" and see what reaction you get. Same as mine $*** on that. No, as more information becomes available, and more evaluation is done, changing positions despite what they must be telling you in New York, is not a sin. :
04-02-2015, 07:58 PM
#204
Melting Slicks
You still whining about "flip flopping". That must be a New York thing, because really nobody gives a $#**. :
BTW, look who else just "flip flopped", and said that they no longer consider what some of you guys call the "wiggle test".
I think it was GM.
No, as more information becomes available, and more evaluation is done, changing positions despite what they must be telling you in New York, is not a sin. :
BTW, look who else just "flip flopped", and said that they no longer consider what some of you guys call the "wiggle test".
I think it was GM.
No, as more information becomes available, and more evaluation is done, changing positions despite what they must be telling you in New York, is not a sin. :
04-02-2015, 08:04 PM
#206
Melting Slicks
Oh you mean the test which serves no purpose?
You're welcome. Someone has to do something rather than just flip flop and swing from nut to nut on this forum.
04-02-2015, 08:05 PM
#207
I think he's in your neck of the woods, NYC, right?
He might even organize a march for you agains't "flip floppers", like myself and GM..... if you pay him enough.
Hell, you're actually starting to sound like Al Sharpton........for all we know you just might be Al, the way you keep pissing and moaning, and "whining" about "flip flopping' and other such bleating.
Is this you, Al/propain?
I hear ya brotha propain. You've got something for all of these "flip floppers". You don't play that $** in New York.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 04-02-2015 at 08:31 PM.
04-02-2015, 08:15 PM
#208
Team Owner
And now they have re evaluated that position and decided that it is not the "test" that their dealers should perform to evaluate the valve guides.
The above experience right there, tells you that it is of limited value. They were able to "wiggle" valves which were actually well within spec.
To your first question, any "test" worth doing, is a test which will offer results which you can hang your hat on.
Considering the potential risk, I consider anything under $500.00 to be a minimal fee to get an accurate reading, vs money wasted to get an inaccurate reading.
One tire for this car would cost you 4 bills. A cold air intake for it would cost you 4 bills.
Definitely worth that upcharge to get a dead nuts on accurate result, vs spending money for a a "maybe" result.
The above experience right there, tells you that it is of limited value. They were able to "wiggle" valves which were actually well within spec.
To your first question, any "test" worth doing, is a test which will offer results which you can hang your hat on.
Considering the potential risk, I consider anything under $500.00 to be a minimal fee to get an accurate reading, vs money wasted to get an inaccurate reading.
One tire for this car would cost you 4 bills. A cold air intake for it would cost you 4 bills.
Definitely worth that upcharge to get a dead nuts on accurate result, vs spending money for a a "maybe" result.
How often should a Z06 owner have his heads removed, blah, blah, blah, to insure he doesn't drop a valve?
04-02-2015, 08:21 PM
#209
M
Careful, you'll get "Rev Al" stirred up.
I'm not saying $500.00 total. I'm saying less than $500.00 over the price of having the wiggle test done.
If a "good" wiggle test cost X, (and God and Al only know if the wiggle test you're getting will be done "right" and is a "good" one or even if there is such a thing) and less than $500.00 over that amount can get me real measurements, then it's worth it to me to get the real measurements.
Name a dealer (or independent shop) that will remove the heads, tear them down, do a full measurement of all 16 guides, reassemble, reinstall with new head gaskets and head bolts and an oil change for under $500. What was the costs for the Chevy dealer to do the "wiggle test" that only required removing the FRC and the valve covers and did not require any new parts to put back to running condition?
How often should a Z06 owner have his heads removed, blah, blah, blah, to insure he doesn't drop a valve?
How often should a Z06 owner have his heads removed, blah, blah, blah, to insure he doesn't drop a valve?
I'm not saying $500.00 total. I'm saying less than $500.00 over the price of having the wiggle test done.
If a "good" wiggle test cost X, (and God and Al
only know if the wiggle test you're getting will be done "right" and is a "good" one or even if there is such a thing) and less than $500.00 over that amount can get me real measurements, then it's worth it to me to get the real measurements.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 04-02-2015 at 08:46 PM.
04-02-2015, 09:00 PM
#210
Melting Slicks
Tell it to Al Sharpton.
I think he's in your neck of the woods, NYC, right?
He might even organize a march for you agains't "flip floppers", like myself and GM..... if you pay him enough.
Hell, you're actually starting to sound like Al Sharpton........for all we know you just might be Al, the way you keep pissing and moaning, and "whining" about "flip flopping' and other such bleating.
Is this you, Al/propain?
I hear ya brotha propain. You've got something for all of these "flip floppers". You don't play that $** in New York.
I think he's in your neck of the woods, NYC, right?
He might even organize a march for you agains't "flip floppers", like myself and GM..... if you pay him enough.
Hell, you're actually starting to sound like Al Sharpton........for all we know you just might be Al, the way you keep pissing and moaning, and "whining" about "flip flopping' and other such bleating.
Is this you, Al/propain?
I hear ya brotha propain. You've got something for all of these "flip floppers". You don't play that $** in New York.
Thats all you got? Wow.. what a clown.. Enjoy your new springs on us "big shots" who actually did something on this forum rather than guys like you who sit back and start a new thread every time someone else fed you an idea. Thats right... Who started this with you? Your boy Chad.. Mr. I hate Katech. How did he check those those guides and call them out of spec? He wiggled them and you ate it up like candy. You're pathetic man.
Run along little man. You're about as useless on this forum as **** on a bull.
Last edited by propain; 04-02-2015 at 09:06 PM.
04-02-2015, 09:11 PM
#211
Thats all you got? Wow.. what a clown.. Enjoy your new springs on us "big shots" who actually did something on this forum rather than guys like you who sit back and start a new thread every time someone else fed you an idea. Thats right... Who started this with you? Your boy Chad.. Mr. I hate Katech. How did he check those those guides and call them out of spec? He wiggled them and you ate it up like candy. You're pathetic man.
Run along little man. You're about as useless on this forum as **** on a bull.
Run along little man. You're about as useless on this forum as **** on a bull.
I would have thought you would be wiggling valves by now.
Let us know when you jump on GM for dumping all over your wiggle test. No justice, no peace, right Al?
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 04-02-2015 at 09:14 PM.
04-02-2015, 09:16 PM
#212
Melting Slicks
You want to know the definition of when you reach a mans intellectual speed limit? See above...
Sorry for the speed bump folks.. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
04-02-2015, 09:24 PM
#214
I would expect no less from you. It's a New York thang, right.
No, you want to know the definition of when you reach a man's intellectual limit, see the quote below:
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 04-02-2015 at 09:33 PM.
04-02-2015, 09:27 PM
#215
Melting Slicks
Still cant come up with your own material? Par for the course with you huh? Swinging from one nut to the next. Please swing off mine and come up with your own material.
Now I'm done... I knew he would step into that one.
Once you become predictable, no one's interested anymore. -Chet Atkins
Last edited by propain; 04-02-2015 at 09:30 PM.
04-02-2015, 09:37 PM
#216
Still cant come up with your own material? Par for the course with you huh? Swinging from one nut to the next. Please swing off mine and come up with your own material.
Now I'm done... I knew he would step into that one.
Once you become predictable, no one's interested anymore. -Chet Atkins
Now I'm done... I knew he would step into that one.
Once you become predictable, no one's interested anymore. -Chet Atkins
You simply can't help yourself.
I've often wondered just what made you behave the way you do in here propain/ Rev. Al.
Now I know. Hell, we all know. All this time, we've been dealing with Al Sharpton.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 04-02-2015 at 09:43 PM.
04-02-2015, 10:12 PM
#217
Drifting
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Sierra Mtns. The Great State Of Jefferson
Posts: 1,810
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OK, We all understand your positions on this problem. Why don't you two take a time out for a week or so. Maybe go have a couple of beers together and have a good laugh about your non stop bitching at each other. Your egos are fn up some good info that maybe starting to solve this problem. You both have a point and I would suspect most of us get it. The problem is both of you made your point long ago. Enough.
04-02-2015, 10:34 PM
#218
Racer
Jesus Christ.
04-02-2015, 10:40 PM
#219
Melting Slicks
OK, We all understand your positions on this problem. Why don't you two take a time out for a week or so. Maybe go have a couple of beers together and have a good laugh about your non stop bitching at each other. Your egos are fn up some good info that maybe starting to solve this problem. You both have a point and I would suspect most of us get it. The problem is both of you made your point long ago. Enough.
If you two want to keep throwing insults at each other why don't you take it private, this is not the place for such things. I'm surprised the mods haven't locked this thread down.
04-02-2015, 10:42 PM
#220
OK, We all understand your positions on this problem. Why don't you two take a time out for a week or so. Maybe go have a couple of beers together and have a good laugh about your non stop bitching at each other. Your egos are fn up some good info that maybe starting to solve this problem. You both have a point and I would suspect most of us get it. The problem is both of you made your point long ago. Enough.
