MickVette

I talked to Jim about sealing off the intake and he said it would help. It did. I have a picture of my creation on the last page, currently, here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...0&goto=newpost

I don't want to contaminate this thread.

meinersk

Josh was watching engine masters youtube today to learn for my additions....they did solid rollers vs hydrolic rollers same engine with similar cams as per roller choice and got 20 more hp out of solid on on 540 i think brake hp engine....they also said you have to check engine alot more with solid rollers for lash i believe ....i would like the extra 30hp maybe for my car...did tony tell you how much more checking you need to do with solid? Show concluded that hydrolic would be there choice to avoid alot of mantainanc . ..also they said always new pushrods for with new cam and lifters.i think i read you were using old pushrods.

meinersk

Im not a gear head or mechanic or engineer....looking at my haltech air from my vette air mod seems to just hit bottom rubber of filter....I was thinking of trying a victor stlye intake with 102 and 90 degree elbow and cut hole in hood to get fast air for more power? Then i thought maybe ported mamo msd with a 4in hard rubber y pipe into two 3in rubber hoses ran to bottom front of the car with plastic 6in by 2in rectangular end pcs for some forced air? Wonder if these ideas would give more hp or just make the cpu wig out?

meinersk

I was thinking 25percent ud Ati for me...I see u went with 10 Percent....I have heard id be fine with 25 ud pulley...why did u go 10 percent?

MickVette

The forced air gains in g/cyl and MAF frequency. The CPU doesn't wig out. It reads the additional air frequency and fuels according to your tune. The tune and parts together have a big effect on the g/cyl of air the engine will ingest.

Here is my tuning post showing the progressions of my car. The only changes in parts were catless x-pipe, building my own "Lid" for the Hallteck intake, and adjusting the tune accordingly.

Here is the link that shows those changes as I don't want to clutter this thread:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1593561846

Turbo2L

These cars are hell on the factory charging system. I would not underdrive an OEM alternator in a C6Z by 25%. I was seeing 10.9-11.2 volts at idle with an ATI 10% which constantly triggered the charging system light. I replaced my alternator with the 170amp that a vendor offers on here and stay 14.1-14.3 at idle. YMMV

MTPZ06

I've seen cars with too much underdrive cause voltage drop...and its easily noticeable at night while driving with the headlights on. When the car comes to a complete stop and idles, you see the lights dim (along with the volt needle dropping). Not worth it IMO. I suppose you could try to overcome it with a higher output alternator like the Billet tech...but you've got to know voltage output at what rpm range to see if it can overcome the 25% UD.

meinersk

Ok....i already put on an ebay 200v for 200 dollars alternator ty..

Josh B.

I subscribe to that engine masters channel on youtube and I also have seen that episode (solid vs Hyd cams). Solid cams require more maintenance than hydraulic cams, that is just the nature of the beast. In a Hydraulic lifter design the lash is maintained hydraulically within the lifter plunger range. On a solid cam, the lash must be carefully set on a periodic basis using feeler gauges. Solid cams are really only for people who don't have a problem pulling their valve covers more often.

I have a customer who bought a used C6Z that came with a solid roller cam and he wishes he had a hydraulic roller. He loves the power, but hates the maintenance. The engine had been run past the lash maintenance interval and had excessive lash. This resulted in his T&D rockers needing to be completely rebuilt, a new set of lifters, and new pushrods.

Solid cams are really for the top echelon of crazy people who want every last hp they can get their hands on. Short travel hydraulic lifters and a hyd cam are a sound alternative to solid cams/lifters. Short travel lifters operate like traditional hyd lifters lifters except the range (or travel) of the plunger is significantly narrower. This requires very precise measurement of the pushrods in order to properly set them up. But once they are set, you don't need to go in there and check the lash as often as solid equipped valvetrains. A best of both worlds for most owners.

My mention of the old BTR pushrods was misleading, they are on the shelf in case they are needed, 7.750" is a common LS7 size. The Crower lifters require a pushrod in excess of 8.000", with my last set for Crower lifters being 8.050". I will go with custom length 3/8" PRs when the day finally comes to order some.

meinersk

Ty how often should they be
Checked.?......any signs that tell you check them besides motor shreading? Cause i was told to get hydrolic and want 9 seconds....estimate for hp gain your car solid? 20 rwhp?

Josh B.

Opinions vary. Generally, every 10k miles between lash adjustments if the response people tend to give. Perhaps more frequently under race/high rpm conditions. I don't really know what I would gain over a similarly sized hyd. I would imagine peak to peak something between 10-20 hp at the top end of the torque curve, with better valve control into the higher rpms, carrying the torque without dropping off as rapidly with hyd roller lifter "pump up". The big difference is going to be valve control after peak hp. For a drag car, that "over-rev" power will make a difference because you are using an rpm range that is relatively higher hp than a Hyd lifter that is dropping off more rapidly. Depending on the torque curve, this could affect shift rpm, and allow the driver to keep the engine in the powerband more effectively.

Lots of room for interpretation here, I defer to the experts like Tony.

I don't plan to be a stranger to checking my valvetrain, I kind of enjoy it. Put a movie on netflix on an iPad, cold beer, hang out in the garage doing race car stuff.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Once again tight on time (now I'm playing catch up from my trip back east!) but I felt this topic was worth the diversion from my business for a bit

Going solid roller has its benefits but not as much as a typical old school build because the HR set-ups I have engineered are extremely bulletproof with an optimized efficient roller rocker arm (with the ideal weight vs strength) and most importantly the right lifters.

ALL of my more serious HR builds employ a special short travel lifter (built by Johnson lifters) that in theory gives you the valvetrain control of a solid with the huge benefit of no maintenance which of course is the big draw to going hydraulic. These special lifters also feature low internal bleed down which adds to the effectiveness of the limited/short travel plunger. An LS7 lifter for example (and most aftermarket lifters for that matter) have .200 plunger travel with larger/looser internal clearances that allow bleed down and loss of lift and duration....both of which negatively impact performance.

The special lifter I use/recommend has only .058 travel.....1/4 the amount of most HR lifter designs....also tighter internal tolerances for less bleed but worst case scenario is the plunger goes solid with very little travel acting like a solid lifter at that point. The only negative of this style lifter is your pushrod window is extremely small in a non-adjustable rocker arm system and I normally order custom length pushrods for all my short travel HR builds (which is not that big a deal really....you just have to be willing to measure zero lash on all 16 pushrods). Im probably Manton Pushrod's best customer because I help so many of my clients with custom length rods....LOL

All that said there is still a small gain to be had with an SR set-up....you can have more cam lobe intensity with an SR because your not concerned with too much overload on the hydraulic plunger mechanism and you can achieve more lift for essentially the same reason....both of which benefit opening the valve a little longer given the same overall duration figures and a little higher to tap into the higher CFM usually available at higher lift points in the cylinder head's flow curve.

Best guess in a cam the size Josh is running (or will be running)....I would say it isn't worth less than 8 HP and likely not worth more than 15 with the real world number likely falling somewhere in the middle of those two figures. Its not a significant amount of power (versus my optimal hydraulic set-up mind you.....not a typical HR set-up)....but its not insignificant either cause at this level the more seasoned among you reading this know just how difficult it is to find another 10+ HP out of an (already) very optimized N/A combination (unlike boost where you just crank up the wastegate or swap pulleys!).

The more powerful your N/A baseline, the harder and more expensive it becomes to improve it.....its like an X-squared curve working against you the stronger your baseline becomes. It might cost you a couple of grand to pick up 20 HP in a 600 HP combo but it could cost you twice that or more at a 700 HP baseline and quadruple that at 750 baseline. Im sure you guys follow the point I'm making. Small gains in power start to be all that distinguishes the winners from the losers as the level of competition gets stiffer and stiffer and you have already covered all the "basics"

Anyway....gotta get back to some emails and PM's.....I wanted to hop back in here at a time it might be helpful in the flow of the conversation....hope it shed some light on things for a few of you....I know its a question that I get asked alot on the phone



Regards,
Tony

PS....Lash intervals.....Expect the first in 500-1000 miles as things break in.....the next at 3500-5000 miles....and likely every 5000 miles after that. BUT.....Im completely nuts when it comes to valvetrain noise with an SR....properly adjusted they sound amazing.....not much louder than an hydraulic in fact with almost a musical whirring of sorts with all adjusted perfectly. BUT....my ear is keen to even a single lifter that is a few thou loose and if your that type of guy (aka Josh type....lol), you may be in there every couple of thou to check over and find that "stray" that you can hear idling in a drive thru waiting to pick up your favorite burger (the wall amplifying the slight additional noise of the barely looser rocker). Its certainly not an option for the set it and forget type of guys and the guys that really just don't want to deal with the worry and maintenance for the few extra HP....especially with the optimized HR set-ups I can now help you with that make it possible to get you within striking distance of an SR's performance with zero maintenance. Truthfully its really only makes sense for a very small percentage of you reading this, but for that select few looking for that last edge (especially for those that like to tinker under the hood) it does make sense and any of you who know Josh would agree he clearly fits into that narrow category!

Josh B.

Tony, as always, your commentary is very much appreciated. 10-15 years ago your degree of engine knowledge would have been black label hotrodding secrets that engine builders within the industry wouldn't share with the average customer. The super secret camshaft specs engine builders. I mean, to each their own, but I personally despise people who hoard information in the name of being competitive.

One thing is for sure, people who care about the details need to give you a call!

meinersk

Wow ....great ansewer....ty tony and josh....last round of mods got me 30rwhp for 4,000 dollars. Including 1,000 elec mezerie for maybe 10hp. Extra 10rwhp might get you 2 higher spots on the fast list...next set of mods will cost 6,000 dollars and hoping for 60rwhp........come on josh get 142 mph in the 1/4 IN FLORIDA and ill know solid roller for sure...

meinersk

Agree 1,000 %.....new owners of these cars thinking if they due the 6 things some of these low 10 and 9 second car list for there upgrades they too will run low 10s and 9sec......what a joke....some dont even have oem engine...if i ever get 9sec i will tell it like it is.....I will list all of the 20,000 dollars of mods so they can see that heads cams exhaust tb intake isnt going to get you there ....theres alot more mods then that for that kind of times.....I very much appreciate your honesty...

95rtturbo

I gave Tony a call for a heads upgrade on my Corsa only 08 ZO6 to fix the heads issue, and he has been incredible as far as his knowledge, and customer service. Very easy guy to do business with, and will take all the time in the world to explain the entire process to you. He even persuaded me to add a baby cam to his heads (I want stock like drivability) - we jokingly called it the "*****" cam because it is super mild: 228 / 240 118 + 3. Anyways, as far as parts go, I feel perfectly confident with leaving all the details up to him.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

They "bleeped" out the name of your cam Tom!! Bummer!

Guys, I also wanted to add to the post I made last night and clarify a few things.

Regarding the lifters, when I said I put ALL my clients in the short travel Johnsons I should have stated that was true on every complete engine that I build for folks (going hydraulic naturally). I would say most of the guys I help with complete combo's also purchase and install the same ones but Johnson also offers a slightly less expensive performance lifter that I refer to as a limited travel.....it has .093 travel vs the short travel's .058

Still less than half the travel of an OEM and most aftermarket lifters so your still heading the right direction in performance and it also has tighter internal clearance for less bleed down so certainly it's still a much better lifter to run than an LS7 (and most aftermarket) and the other benefit is you don't have to be quite as precise with your pushrod measurements....guys that are nervous about that I would normally just recommend the limited travel vs the short travel.

Felt this situation was worth clarifying.....one of my customers emailed me today and confirmed he wanted the limited travel lifter also mentioning he saw my post last night and it got me thinking that I should further expand on the lifter situation and share there are options for guys a little more nervous about themselves (or their shop) tackling the set-up with a short travel.

Im working on putting a video together to make it easy for folks but with all the things on my plate God knows when it will actually happen!

Catch you guys later!



-Tony

PS....Now it looks like the cam name was unbleeped after I quoted it....weird....truth be told Tom dubbed the name himself (and the abbreviated version....the TWPC)....we both had a laugh over it. He really wanted to keep the stocker and I begged him to let me help him with a super mild aftermarket custom I would help him with. He probably picked up 30 easily over stock and it will still idle nice and drive perfect!!

Josh B.

Sounds like Tony

I bet it drives nice though man. Most days I'm super jealous of nice part throttle, no surging, like stock. But then, when the mood strikes and the time comes to release the Kraken, I want every horse I can make and I'm happy with my big cams!!

Racingswh

I always appreciate Tony's input. He's doing a build for me starting with a fresh 440 ERL shortblock assembly that will be run in my Wife's car next season. It will be used for HPDE and TT events.

I am looking forward to seeing the results of this build and hearing about how well it drives and pulls.

Josh B.

I received news from the Western front that the heads arrived safely. Always a concern with heads that have a lot of attention put into them. Shipped with insurance of course.