Newbie with LS7 Questions
06-22-2017, 05:59 PM
#61
According to you no one should every buy a C6 Z06 without checking the guides.
But guess what, the majority of owners have never heard of this is issue and have never had an issue. Me being a part of that majority. Are you going to tell me next I am lying or just got lucky?
Last edited by nuke61; 06-22-2017 at 06:00 PM.
06-22-2017, 08:38 PM
#62
Melting Slicks
I am impressed, you know how to troll someone's profile. If you are the one calling out my credibility, then I am doing just fine. Appreciate the love.
I will call on your expert knowledge as I did a few others. Because I just cannot figure this one out either: LOL
If the LS7 is so unreliable why did GM make and warranty it for 8 years. And on top of that, it was so unreliable they decided it was the ONE LS engine they decided to keep around and put into the Camaro.
So go ahead all mighty one, break that down for me. Because you are obviously smarter than the engineers at GM.
I will call on your expert knowledge as I did a few others. Because I just cannot figure this one out either: LOL
If the LS7 is so unreliable why did GM make and warranty it for 8 years. And on top of that, it was so unreliable they decided it was the ONE LS engine they decided to keep around and put into the Camaro.
So go ahead all mighty one, break that down for me. Because you are obviously smarter than the engineers at GM.
06-23-2017, 12:08 PM
#63
Racer
These threads always seem to devolve the same way. People can keep burying their heads in the sand and ignore the problem, but sorry, that doesn't make it go away. Touting statements from GM as fact is asinine. Of course GM would try to downplay the problem. That's how they've avoided the lawsuit for as long as they have. If they came out and actually admitted that ALL ls7 motors are susceptible to premature guide wear and recalled all of them to be fixed, do you realize what that would cost?
There are some 35000 z06's out there, if all were recalled and fixed at an average $1000 each, that would be 35 MILLION dollars. This figure does not include the camaro engines as we don't really know what's going on yet in their case. So it could be potentially a lot more than 35 million. Not to mention the lost sales and other losses due to the bad PR. Now do you see why GM will never touch this issue again?
The argument about the ls7 in the camaro not failing is moot. The camaro team learned from the mistakes of the corvette team and was able to avoid the problems, at least for now as far as we know. This is similar to c7z's overheating, but the camaros don't...WITH THE SAME ENGINE no less. Again, the camaro team learned from and avoided the mistakes of the corvette team.
Saying that X number of magazines and such have tested them since 2006 and none have failed is also a moot point. These engines don't fail in a mere few hours of hard driving over a handful of days. They fail after thousands of miles over months and years.
Saying you have X number of miles bone stock and have no problems, therefore no issue exists, yet the time was never taken to actually inspect the problem parts, is the weakest argument based on anecdotal evidence that I could think of. For all we know, the next trackday or trip to the store could have been its last.
OP, you can take the time to find a z06 with the head work already done by the previous owner (if they can show proof the work was done) or just buy one and check for yourself afterward. Go into it accepting the fact that the guides must be checked if the work hasn't been done or if you don't know it has been done. But in all honesty, rather than simply checking them, just get them reworked instead and carry on.
The people outside this forum that don't know about the issue are usually on engine #2 or #3 already, but have no idea what's causing their motors to make themselves lunch. Others have motors with high mileage, that don't have an issue...these are sadly the lucky few. Some say they don't have any problems, but have never actually taken the time or spent the coin to find out for a fact. Others with high mileage that don't have an issue might not even know that their heads have already been reworked (seen this be the case). Many others have had the heads reworked preemptively, therefore no new motors being added to the list of the dearly departed. And then there are the enormous amount of garage queens that rarely see the damn road, so we won't know which category these cars will fall into for a long time. The amount of engines with premature guide wear will never be known to us for these reasons, but all of them have the potential to be susceptible and should have the proper countermeasures taken to avoid creating 1 or more $16000 paperweights. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The evidence has been hashed out by both sides of this argument for years. It's up to you to decide which one's advice to take.
There are some 35000 z06's out there, if all were recalled and fixed at an average $1000 each, that would be 35 MILLION dollars. This figure does not include the camaro engines as we don't really know what's going on yet in their case. So it could be potentially a lot more than 35 million. Not to mention the lost sales and other losses due to the bad PR. Now do you see why GM will never touch this issue again?
The argument about the ls7 in the camaro not failing is moot. The camaro team learned from the mistakes of the corvette team and was able to avoid the problems, at least for now as far as we know. This is similar to c7z's overheating, but the camaros don't...WITH THE SAME ENGINE no less. Again, the camaro team learned from and avoided the mistakes of the corvette team.
Saying that X number of magazines and such have tested them since 2006 and none have failed is also a moot point. These engines don't fail in a mere few hours of hard driving over a handful of days. They fail after thousands of miles over months and years.
Saying you have X number of miles bone stock and have no problems, therefore no issue exists, yet the time was never taken to actually inspect the problem parts, is the weakest argument based on anecdotal evidence that I could think of. For all we know, the next trackday or trip to the store could have been its last.
OP, you can take the time to find a z06 with the head work already done by the previous owner (if they can show proof the work was done) or just buy one and check for yourself afterward. Go into it accepting the fact that the guides must be checked if the work hasn't been done or if you don't know it has been done. But in all honesty, rather than simply checking them, just get them reworked instead and carry on.
The people outside this forum that don't know about the issue are usually on engine #2 or #3 already, but have no idea what's causing their motors to make themselves lunch. Others have motors with high mileage, that don't have an issue...these are sadly the lucky few. Some say they don't have any problems, but have never actually taken the time or spent the coin to find out for a fact. Others with high mileage that don't have an issue might not even know that their heads have already been reworked (seen this be the case). Many others have had the heads reworked preemptively, therefore no new motors being added to the list of the dearly departed. And then there are the enormous amount of garage queens that rarely see the damn road, so we won't know which category these cars will fall into for a long time. The amount of engines with premature guide wear will never be known to us for these reasons, but all of them have the potential to be susceptible and should have the proper countermeasures taken to avoid creating 1 or more $16000 paperweights. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The evidence has been hashed out by both sides of this argument for years. It's up to you to decide which one's advice to take.
06-23-2017, 01:41 PM
#64
Instructor
Thread Starter
These threads always seem to devolve the same way. People can keep burying their heads in the sand and ignore the problem, but sorry, that doesn't make it go away. Touting statements from GM as fact is asinine. Of course GM would try to downplay the problem. That's how they've avoided the lawsuit for as long as they have. If they came out and actually admitted that ALL ls7 motors are susceptible to premature guide wear and recalled all of them to be fixed, do you realize what that would cost?
There are some 35000 z06's out there, if all were recalled and fixed at an average $1000 each, that would be 35 MILLION dollars. This figure does not include the camaro engines as we don't really know what's going on yet in their case. So it could be potentially a lot more than 35 million. Not to mention the lost sales and other losses due to the bad PR. Now do you see why GM will never touch this issue again?
The argument about the ls7 in the camaro not failing is moot. The camaro team learned from the mistakes of the corvette team and was able to avoid the problems, at least for now as far as we know. This is similar to c7z's overheating, but the camaros don't...WITH THE SAME ENGINE no less. Again, the camaro team learned from and avoided the mistakes of the corvette team.
Saying that X number of magazines and such have tested them since 2006 and none have failed is also a moot point. These engines don't fail in a mere few hours of hard driving over a handful of days. They fail after thousands of miles over months and years.
Saying you have X number of miles bone stock and have no problems, therefore no issue exists, yet the time was never taken to actually inspect the problem parts, is the weakest argument based on anecdotal evidence that I could think of. For all we know, the next trackday or trip to the store could have been its last.
OP, you can take the time to find a z06 with the head work already done by the previous owner (if they can show proof the work was done) or just buy one and check for yourself afterward. Go into it accepting the fact that the guides must be checked if the work hasn't been done or if you don't know it has been done. But in all honesty, rather than simply checking them, just get them reworked instead and carry on.
The people outside this forum that don't know about the issue are usually on engine #2 or #3 already, but have no idea what's causing their motors to make themselves lunch. Others have motors with high mileage, that don't have an issue...these are sadly the lucky few. Some say they don't have any problems, but have never actually taken the time or spent the coin to find out for a fact. Others with high mileage that don't have an issue might not even know that their heads have already been reworked (seen this be the case). Many others have had the heads reworked preemptively, therefore no new motors being added to the list of the dearly departed. And then there are the enormous amount of garage queens that rarely see the damn road, so we won't know which category these cars will fall into for a long time. The amount of engines with premature guide wear will never be known to us for these reasons, but all of them have the potential to be susceptible and should have the proper countermeasures taken to avoid creating 1 or more $16000 paperweights. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The evidence has been hashed out by both sides of this argument for years. It's up to you to decide which one's advice to take.
There are some 35000 z06's out there, if all were recalled and fixed at an average $1000 each, that would be 35 MILLION dollars. This figure does not include the camaro engines as we don't really know what's going on yet in their case. So it could be potentially a lot more than 35 million. Not to mention the lost sales and other losses due to the bad PR. Now do you see why GM will never touch this issue again?
The argument about the ls7 in the camaro not failing is moot. The camaro team learned from the mistakes of the corvette team and was able to avoid the problems, at least for now as far as we know. This is similar to c7z's overheating, but the camaros don't...WITH THE SAME ENGINE no less. Again, the camaro team learned from and avoided the mistakes of the corvette team.
Saying that X number of magazines and such have tested them since 2006 and none have failed is also a moot point. These engines don't fail in a mere few hours of hard driving over a handful of days. They fail after thousands of miles over months and years.
Saying you have X number of miles bone stock and have no problems, therefore no issue exists, yet the time was never taken to actually inspect the problem parts, is the weakest argument based on anecdotal evidence that I could think of. For all we know, the next trackday or trip to the store could have been its last.
OP, you can take the time to find a z06 with the head work already done by the previous owner (if they can show proof the work was done) or just buy one and check for yourself afterward. Go into it accepting the fact that the guides must be checked if the work hasn't been done or if you don't know it has been done. But in all honesty, rather than simply checking them, just get them reworked instead and carry on.
The people outside this forum that don't know about the issue are usually on engine #2 or #3 already, but have no idea what's causing their motors to make themselves lunch. Others have motors with high mileage, that don't have an issue...these are sadly the lucky few. Some say they don't have any problems, but have never actually taken the time or spent the coin to find out for a fact. Others with high mileage that don't have an issue might not even know that their heads have already been reworked (seen this be the case). Many others have had the heads reworked preemptively, therefore no new motors being added to the list of the dearly departed. And then there are the enormous amount of garage queens that rarely see the damn road, so we won't know which category these cars will fall into for a long time. The amount of engines with premature guide wear will never be known to us for these reasons, but all of them have the potential to be susceptible and should have the proper countermeasures taken to avoid creating 1 or more $16000 paperweights. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The evidence has been hashed out by both sides of this argument for years. It's up to you to decide which one's advice to take.
As a newcomer, I didn't realize that this was such a controversial issue. I agree with most of the arguments and will definitely either buy one that's had the head work performed (with documentation) or budget the ~$2k into the offer and get the heads off to one of the good shops. The dollar amount seems like a cheap enough price to pay for piece of mine, considering the cost if the engine goes.
Thanks, again, for all of the helpful advice.
06-23-2017, 01:54 PM
#66
Safety Car
Thanks for your input.
As a newcomer, I didn't realize that this was such a controversial issue. I agree with most of the arguments and will definitely either buy one that's had the head work performed (with documentation) or budget the ~$2k into the offer and get the heads off to one of the good shops. The dollar amount seems like a cheap enough price to pay for piece of mine, considering the cost if the engine goes.
Thanks, again, for all of the helpful advice.
As a newcomer, I didn't realize that this was such a controversial issue. I agree with most of the arguments and will definitely either buy one that's had the head work performed (with documentation) or budget the ~$2k into the offer and get the heads off to one of the good shops. The dollar amount seems like a cheap enough price to pay for piece of mine, considering the cost if the engine goes.
Thanks, again, for all of the helpful advice.
For a car from 2006, the C6Z still holds it's own, but it's amazing how fast cars are getting. Just as one example, the new 5.0's with a blower = 650+whp. Depending on the trim level, that can be a $30k car with $10k in mods, and they are monsters. We are in some crazy HP times, that's for sure.
06-23-2017, 02:21 PM
#67
Racer
I think it's actually due to you being a newcomer that there is so much passion coming from some of the replies. Those on the one side of the argument feel like it's fear mongering or whatever and don't want to see a newcomer fall victim to it....
...Secretly though, they just don't want their car to depreciate any more than it already has...
That's a joke, sorta. I try not to attribute motive that I cannot possibly know, but it's still a juicy conspiracy.
Although they are seeming to hold value quite well actually, considering that fully optioned they were between 85k-90k new and are only about or slightly under half that nearly a decade later. It's quite surprising considering the anticipated loss in value the valve debacle was thought to bring about.
Those on the other side of the fence simply don't want to see yet another newcomer listen to the ostriches with their heads in the sand. Because they don't want to have to see another thread by that same newcomer describing how their, new to them, LS7 munched on a valve.
Personally, I'm glad you are heeding the advice of the correct side
In all seriousness though, enjoy the LS7 when you finally get one. It's a beast of a motor when firing on all 8 and is a ton (and a half) of fun, quite literally.
Welcome to the forum and welcome to the corvette community
edit:
I also just saw the bit about your target being 07-10 models. You can look up a lot here on the forums about the differences between those years and their respective quirks. Just know the major things are that 07 had a needle bearing issue and 08 brought about the more stout T6060. And 09 brought in the larger oil capacity (this would be beneficial if you expect to see a good bit of track time) and 2010 brought in launch control. Get the newest lowest mileage one you can afford and then simply enjoy.
...Secretly though, they just don't want their car to depreciate any more than it already has...
That's a joke, sorta. I try not to attribute motive that I cannot possibly know, but it's still a juicy conspiracy.
Although they are seeming to hold value quite well actually, considering that fully optioned they were between 85k-90k new and are only about or slightly under half that nearly a decade later. It's quite surprising considering the anticipated loss in value the valve debacle was thought to bring about.
Those on the other side of the fence simply don't want to see yet another newcomer listen to the ostriches with their heads in the sand. Because they don't want to have to see another thread by that same newcomer describing how their, new to them, LS7 munched on a valve.
Personally, I'm glad you are heeding the advice of the correct side
In all seriousness though, enjoy the LS7 when you finally get one. It's a beast of a motor when firing on all 8 and is a ton (and a half) of fun, quite literally.
Welcome to the forum and welcome to the corvette community
Thanks for your input.
As a newcomer, I didn't realize that this was such a controversial issue. I agree with most of the arguments and will definitely either buy one that's had the head work performed (with documentation) or budget the ~$2k into the offer and get the heads off to one of the good shops. The dollar amount seems like a cheap enough price to pay for piece of mine, considering the cost if the engine goes.
Thanks, again, for all of the helpful advice.
As a newcomer, I didn't realize that this was such a controversial issue. I agree with most of the arguments and will definitely either buy one that's had the head work performed (with documentation) or budget the ~$2k into the offer and get the heads off to one of the good shops. The dollar amount seems like a cheap enough price to pay for piece of mine, considering the cost if the engine goes.
Thanks, again, for all of the helpful advice.
I also just saw the bit about your target being 07-10 models. You can look up a lot here on the forums about the differences between those years and their respective quirks. Just know the major things are that 07 had a needle bearing issue and 08 brought about the more stout T6060. And 09 brought in the larger oil capacity (this would be beneficial if you expect to see a good bit of track time) and 2010 brought in launch control. Get the newest lowest mileage one you can afford and then simply enjoy.
Last edited by NVA2010; 06-23-2017 at 02:34 PM.
06-23-2017, 03:08 PM
#68
I didn't think so. And you want to question my credibility because you want to agree with the so called experts? Fair enough.
06-23-2017, 03:12 PM
#69
These threads always seem to devolve the same way. People can keep burying their heads in the sand and ignore the problem, but sorry, that doesn't make it go away. Touting statements from GM as fact is asinine. Of course GM would try to downplay the problem. That's how they've avoided the lawsuit for as long as they have. If they came out and actually admitted that ALL ls7 motors are susceptible to premature guide wear and recalled all of them to be fixed, do you realize what that would cost?
There are some 35000 z06's out there, if all were recalled and fixed at an average $1000 each, that would be 35 MILLION dollars. This figure does not include the camaro engines as we don't really know what's going on yet in their case. So it could be potentially a lot more than 35 million. Not to mention the lost sales and other losses due to the bad PR. Now do you see why GM will never touch this issue again?
The argument about the ls7 in the camaro not failing is moot. The camaro team learned from the mistakes of the corvette team and was able to avoid the problems, at least for now as far as we know. This is similar to c7z's overheating, but the camaros don't...WITH THE SAME ENGINE no less. Again, the camaro team learned from and avoided the mistakes of the corvette team.
Saying that X number of magazines and such have tested them since 2006 and none have failed is also a moot point. These engines don't fail in a mere few hours of hard driving over a handful of days. They fail after thousands of miles over months and years.
Saying you have X number of miles bone stock and have no problems, therefore no issue exists, yet the time was never taken to actually inspect the problem parts, is the weakest argument based on anecdotal evidence that I could think of. For all we know, the next trackday or trip to the store could have been its last.
OP, you can take the time to find a z06 with the head work already done by the previous owner (if they can show proof the work was done) or just buy one and check for yourself afterward. Go into it accepting the fact that the guides must be checked if the work hasn't been done or if you don't know it has been done. But in all honesty, rather than simply checking them, just get them reworked instead and carry on.
The people outside this forum that don't know about the issue are usually on engine #2 or #3 already, but have no idea what's causing their motors to make themselves lunch. Others have motors with high mileage, that don't have an issue...these are sadly the lucky few. Some say they don't have any problems, but have never actually taken the time or spent the coin to find out for a fact. Others with high mileage that don't have an issue might not even know that their heads have already been reworked (seen this be the case). Many others have had the heads reworked preemptively, therefore no new motors being added to the list of the dearly departed. And then there are the enormous amount of garage queens that rarely see the damn road, so we won't know which category these cars will fall into for a long time. The amount of engines with premature guide wear will never be known to us for these reasons, but all of them have the potential to be susceptible and should have the proper countermeasures taken to avoid creating 1 or more $16000 paperweights. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The evidence has been hashed out by both sides of this argument for years. It's up to you to decide which one's advice to take.
There are some 35000 z06's out there, if all were recalled and fixed at an average $1000 each, that would be 35 MILLION dollars. This figure does not include the camaro engines as we don't really know what's going on yet in their case. So it could be potentially a lot more than 35 million. Not to mention the lost sales and other losses due to the bad PR. Now do you see why GM will never touch this issue again?
The argument about the ls7 in the camaro not failing is moot. The camaro team learned from the mistakes of the corvette team and was able to avoid the problems, at least for now as far as we know. This is similar to c7z's overheating, but the camaros don't...WITH THE SAME ENGINE no less. Again, the camaro team learned from and avoided the mistakes of the corvette team.
Saying that X number of magazines and such have tested them since 2006 and none have failed is also a moot point. These engines don't fail in a mere few hours of hard driving over a handful of days. They fail after thousands of miles over months and years.
Saying you have X number of miles bone stock and have no problems, therefore no issue exists, yet the time was never taken to actually inspect the problem parts, is the weakest argument based on anecdotal evidence that I could think of. For all we know, the next trackday or trip to the store could have been its last.
OP, you can take the time to find a z06 with the head work already done by the previous owner (if they can show proof the work was done) or just buy one and check for yourself afterward. Go into it accepting the fact that the guides must be checked if the work hasn't been done or if you don't know it has been done. But in all honesty, rather than simply checking them, just get them reworked instead and carry on.
The people outside this forum that don't know about the issue are usually on engine #2 or #3 already, but have no idea what's causing their motors to make themselves lunch. Others have motors with high mileage, that don't have an issue...these are sadly the lucky few. Some say they don't have any problems, but have never actually taken the time or spent the coin to find out for a fact. Others with high mileage that don't have an issue might not even know that their heads have already been reworked (seen this be the case). Many others have had the heads reworked preemptively, therefore no new motors being added to the list of the dearly departed. And then there are the enormous amount of garage queens that rarely see the damn road, so we won't know which category these cars will fall into for a long time. The amount of engines with premature guide wear will never be known to us for these reasons, but all of them have the potential to be susceptible and should have the proper countermeasures taken to avoid creating 1 or more $16000 paperweights. At the end of the day, it's your choice. The evidence has been hashed out by both sides of this argument for years. It's up to you to decide which one's advice to take.
My next trip the store or track could have been its last? And you want to call my opinions moot? That is opinion and speculation at its finest!
06-23-2017, 03:26 PM
#70
06-23-2017, 04:06 PM
#71
Safety Car
NotreOkc, no offense, but you are quite stubborn and have some very strange/faulty ways of looking at things.
Someone could tell you night is night and you'll say that's just their opinion and claim it's day.
Someone could tell you night is night and you'll say that's just their opinion and claim it's day.
06-23-2017, 04:23 PM
#72
Funny, I could say the same thing about you and every other person on this thread. Having a different opinion from the so called experts on here does not make me stubborn. It just means I am not going to change my thinking because someone else doesn't agree with me.
06-23-2017, 04:38 PM
#73
Racer
I never once said anything specifically to you or quoted you in any way. The arguments you used have been used by many others as the same talking points, thus I refuted them the same way I would had anyone else brought them up. Don't take it personal.
People disagreed with those that said the earth was flat...guess what, the flat earthers were in fact wrong. This is meant to display that your logic that my disagreeing with you does not mean you are wrong, is a faulty way of thinking about it. One or both of us is wrong in this case. When we'll know who it is for a fact, I can't say. This is merely an example, not a personal attack.
My statement about the last trip to the track/store should sound like speculation, because that is in fact exactly how that statement was set up from the start with "For all we know".
Other than that, I refuse to get into any kind of further debate on the valves in this thread. It has been beat to death too many other times. I can try to get you to see my way and you can try the other way on me as well, we are both free to do so. Whether or not either of our positions change is entirely up to us as individuals given the evidence. For now, let's agree to disagree. Enjoy the rest of your day
If the OP has any other questions related to the LS7, I will assist the newcomer to the best of my ability. Hopefully you and the others here can continue to do so as well.
People disagreed with those that said the earth was flat...guess what, the flat earthers were in fact wrong. This is meant to display that your logic that my disagreeing with you does not mean you are wrong, is a faulty way of thinking about it. One or both of us is wrong in this case. When we'll know who it is for a fact, I can't say. This is merely an example, not a personal attack.
My statement about the last trip to the track/store should sound like speculation, because that is in fact exactly how that statement was set up from the start with "For all we know".
Other than that, I refuse to get into any kind of further debate on the valves in this thread. It has been beat to death too many other times. I can try to get you to see my way and you can try the other way on me as well, we are both free to do so. Whether or not either of our positions change is entirely up to us as individuals given the evidence. For now, let's agree to disagree. Enjoy the rest of your day
If the OP has any other questions related to the LS7, I will assist the newcomer to the best of my ability. Hopefully you and the others here can continue to do so as well.
Last edited by NVA2010; 06-23-2017 at 04:40 PM.
06-23-2017, 04:49 PM
#74
I never once said anything specifically to you or quoted you in any way. The arguments you used have been used by many others as the same talking points, thus I refuted them the same way I would had anyone else brought them up. Don't take it personal.
People disagreed with those that said the earth was flat...guess what, the flat earthers were in fact wrong. This is meant to display that your logic that my disagreeing with you does not mean you are wrong, is a faulty way of thinking about it. One or both of us is wrong in this case. When we'll know who it is for a fact, I can't say. This is merely an example, not a personal attack.
My statement about the last trip to the track/store should sound like speculation, because that is in fact exactly how that statement was set up from the start with "For all we know".
Other than that, I refuse to get into any kind of further debate on the valves in this thread. It has been beat to death too many other times. I can try to get you to see my way and you can try the other way on me as well, we are both free to do so. Whether or not either of our positions change is entirely up to us as individuals given the evidence. For now, let's agree to disagree. Enjoy the rest of your day
If the OP has any other questions related to the LS7, I will assist the newcomer to the best of my ability. Hopefully you and the others here can continue to do so as well.
People disagreed with those that said the earth was flat...guess what, the flat earthers were in fact wrong. This is meant to display that your logic that my disagreeing with you does not mean you are wrong, is a faulty way of thinking about it. One or both of us is wrong in this case. When we'll know who it is for a fact, I can't say. This is merely an example, not a personal attack.
My statement about the last trip to the track/store should sound like speculation, because that is in fact exactly how that statement was set up from the start with "For all we know".
Other than that, I refuse to get into any kind of further debate on the valves in this thread. It has been beat to death too many other times. I can try to get you to see my way and you can try the other way on me as well, we are both free to do so. Whether or not either of our positions change is entirely up to us as individuals given the evidence. For now, let's agree to disagree. Enjoy the rest of your day
If the OP has any other questions related to the LS7, I will assist the newcomer to the best of my ability. Hopefully you and the others here can continue to do so as well.
06-23-2017, 06:15 PM
#75
If it were only an expressed opinion, I don't think many would care. It's when you claimed that it was fact that less than 1% of LS7s are affected is when you cross the line from opinion to stating something as fact, when the only fact is that it can't be proven - particularly when it's based on rumor.
06-23-2017, 07:32 PM
#76
Safety Car
If it were only an expressed opinion, I don't think many would care. It's when you claimed that it was fact that less than 1% of LS7s are affected is when you cross the line from opinion to stating something as fact, when the only fact is that it can't be proven - particularly when it's based on rumor.
-Its completely hearsay from one supposed conversation with one supposed GM engineer, who may or may not know what he is talking about.
-Even if that is what a GM engineer said, there is no way to know it's true as we already said GM definitely wants to avoid or at the least downplay the issue. That's obvious.
-Even if what the GM engineer said is true, that would again, only be based on cars coming back to dealerships under warranty. As has already been stated, many of these cars are low mileage garage queens, What came back to dealerships under warranty where they clearly reported back to GM that the problem was the valve issue IN NO WAY is a complete representation of all the cars that have the problem.
One thing we know for sure, is that individuals and shops all around the country have seen and proven countless LS7's that are out of spec. Some may last longer than others, and some may be immune, but over the years, it's been shown that most are ticking time bombs unless addressed. Simple as that.
It's amusing how Notreokc came here spouting "Fact" and then regressed to "opinion" Maybe he is starting to see the light. The facts are clearly more on our side.
Last edited by kbreese; 06-23-2017 at 07:37 PM.
06-23-2017, 11:14 PM
#77
Racer
Not sure if any of you guys have seen this, but it's a good read and apparently was just released a couple days ago or so. Thought it might be useful to those still here in this thread.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uide-wear.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...uide-wear.html
Last edited by NVA2010; 06-23-2017 at 11:17 PM.
06-24-2017, 12:22 AM
#78
Melting Slicks
You are hilarious my man. "experts" on the LS7 huh? So any of them (you) could walk into GM right now and build an LS7 from the ground up or know everything about it? That is what I would deem to be an expert. So that is the case?
I didn't think so. And you want to question my credibility because you want to agree with the so called experts? Fair enough.
I didn't think so. And you want to question my credibility because you want to agree with the so called experts? Fair enough.
Considering the fact that many people here built their LS7's by hand, yes, I have every confidence several people here could walk into GM and handbuild an LS7. Not that such a feat is really relevant or is a qualification of anything other than building an LS7.
NVA2010 addressed the valve guide issue in one of the most comprehensive and no doubt time-consuming responses I have ever read in this forum and you paid zero attention to it. He took the time to write out the facts, facts that many LS7 gurus agree on. Sure there is disagreement as to the extent of some causes (by forum members who don't always get along) but guess what, the debate goes on, they find agreement, and the overarching consensus is exactly what NVA2010 wrote. Basically the exact opposite of what you wrote and are now determined to defend.
I really don't see your credibility coming back from this.
06-24-2017, 04:19 PM
#79
Your credibility is shot because your arguments are shyte and then you triple down on them. Yes, other people get to decide whether or not you are credible as a LS7 guru. If you can't understand why your inner exhaust tips soot up but not your outer tips, why on earth would anyone find you to be a credible source for a valve guide discussion?
Considering the fact that many people here built their LS7's by hand, yes, I have every confidence several people here could walk into GM and handbuild an LS7. Not that such a feat is really relevant or is a qualification of anything other than building an LS7.
NVA2010 addressed the valve guide issue in one of the most comprehensive and no doubt time-consuming responses I have ever read in this forum and you paid zero attention to it. He took the time to write out the facts, facts that many LS7 gurus agree on. Sure there is disagreement as to the extent of some causes (by forum members who don't always get along) but guess what, the debate goes on, they find agreement, and the overarching consensus is exactly what NVA2010 wrote. Basically the exact opposite of what you wrote and are now determined to defend.
I really don't see your credibility coming back from this.
Considering the fact that many people here built their LS7's by hand, yes, I have every confidence several people here could walk into GM and handbuild an LS7. Not that such a feat is really relevant or is a qualification of anything other than building an LS7.
NVA2010 addressed the valve guide issue in one of the most comprehensive and no doubt time-consuming responses I have ever read in this forum and you paid zero attention to it. He took the time to write out the facts, facts that many LS7 gurus agree on. Sure there is disagreement as to the extent of some causes (by forum members who don't always get along) but guess what, the debate goes on, they find agreement, and the overarching consensus is exactly what NVA2010 wrote. Basically the exact opposite of what you wrote and are now determined to defend.
I really don't see your credibility coming back from this.
Many people on here built their own huh? That is a pretty broad paint stroke. Where is your proof of that? Have they contributed to this thread. I will wait for your proof.
It is no different then me wanting to call fact when an Engineer at Carlisle talks to an Engineer at GM and stated statistics. You choose not to believe it, I do.
06-24-2017, 04:24 PM
#80
Yeah it's ridiculous to claim that as "Fact."
-Its completely hearsay from one supposed conversation with one supposed GM engineer, who may or may not know what he is talking about.
-Even if that is what a GM engineer said, there is no way to know it's true as we already said GM definitely wants to avoid or at the least downplay the issue. That's obvious.
-Even if what the GM engineer said is true, that would again, only be based on cars coming back to dealerships under warranty. As has already been stated, many of these cars are low mileage garage queens, What came back to dealerships under warranty where they clearly reported back to GM that the problem was the valve issue IN NO WAY is a complete representation of all the cars that have the problem.
One thing we know for sure, is that individuals and shops all around the country have seen and proven countless LS7's that are out of spec. Some may last longer than others, and some may be immune, but over the years, it's been shown that most are ticking time bombs unless addressed. Simple as that.
It's amusing how Notreokc came here spouting "Fact" and then regressed to "opinion" Maybe he is starting to see the light. The facts are clearly more on our side.
-Its completely hearsay from one supposed conversation with one supposed GM engineer, who may or may not know what he is talking about.
-Even if that is what a GM engineer said, there is no way to know it's true as we already said GM definitely wants to avoid or at the least downplay the issue. That's obvious.
-Even if what the GM engineer said is true, that would again, only be based on cars coming back to dealerships under warranty. As has already been stated, many of these cars are low mileage garage queens, What came back to dealerships under warranty where they clearly reported back to GM that the problem was the valve issue IN NO WAY is a complete representation of all the cars that have the problem.
One thing we know for sure, is that individuals and shops all around the country have seen and proven countless LS7's that are out of spec. Some may last longer than others, and some may be immune, but over the years, it's been shown that most are ticking time bombs unless addressed. Simple as that.
It's amusing how Notreokc came here spouting "Fact" and then regressed to "opinion" Maybe he is starting to see the light. The facts are clearly more on our side.
You don't. Does not make me wrong?
So where are your facts? Since you seem to think i am soooo wrong you tell me, how many LS7's had issues? What percentage? Since "so many individuals had them checked and were out of spec......Howmany is that exactly??
Why on earth would so many Z06 buyers buy one and never have the guides checked, or never heard of the issue? Please enlighten me.