What is the latest and greatest clutch?
#61
Safety Car
Love my Mantic triple
#62
Le Mans Master
You can say that again....some guys get that concept sooner than others.
I hate buyers remorse and/or regret. In fact I normally save longer now for a product Im psyched to own rather than buy something I might regret later. How often do you interact with that left pedal on any given drive or outing with the car??!! A premium clutch is a smart place to upgrade no different than any other mod you interface with constantly
My modded RPS BC2 clutch would not look out of place being removed from a million dollar Bugatti Veyron (not suggesting it would hold that type of power of course). Point I'm getting at is the quality and the materials and the workmanship is second to none IMO. It's the Super model of street strip clutches....a very exotic looking piece. Most everything else just looks like "regular" in comparison and the way the design works is fantastic. Cleaner faster shift are effortless....lighter shift effort all the time....no chatter at all....significant gains in RWHP due to such a low MOI but not enough to give you headaches driving it around. It would make close to 15 more RWHP compared to a stock LS7 or a McLoed unit, both of which are just too damn heavy. How much is a mod that adds 15 RWHP worth.....ALOT.....you need to look at this purchase as not just arguably the best clutch on the planet but also a performance upgrade at the very same time....all told with that considered I feel this clutch is a bargain priced where it is....you just have to be sharp enough to see all the inherent value it offers you.
Here is a good thread (minus a few yahoo's who posted in it) going over the merits of the "Mamofied" BC2 I sell.....great pictures so you can see what I mean about how unique and exotic the design is. Like anything else....the better stuff always costs more but pays you back in spades over the long haul and the years of enjoyment the better parts always provide.
A quick pic and a thread below with alot more detail and information
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...ll-review.html
Cheers,
Tony
I hate buyers remorse and/or regret. In fact I normally save longer now for a product Im psyched to own rather than buy something I might regret later. How often do you interact with that left pedal on any given drive or outing with the car??!! A premium clutch is a smart place to upgrade no different than any other mod you interface with constantly
My modded RPS BC2 clutch would not look out of place being removed from a million dollar Bugatti Veyron (not suggesting it would hold that type of power of course). Point I'm getting at is the quality and the materials and the workmanship is second to none IMO. It's the Super model of street strip clutches....a very exotic looking piece. Most everything else just looks like "regular" in comparison and the way the design works is fantastic. Cleaner faster shift are effortless....lighter shift effort all the time....no chatter at all....significant gains in RWHP due to such a low MOI but not enough to give you headaches driving it around. It would make close to 15 more RWHP compared to a stock LS7 or a McLoed unit, both of which are just too damn heavy. How much is a mod that adds 15 RWHP worth.....ALOT.....you need to look at this purchase as not just arguably the best clutch on the planet but also a performance upgrade at the very same time....all told with that considered I feel this clutch is a bargain priced where it is....you just have to be sharp enough to see all the inherent value it offers you.
Here is a good thread (minus a few yahoo's who posted in it) going over the merits of the "Mamofied" BC2 I sell.....great pictures so you can see what I mean about how unique and exotic the design is. Like anything else....the better stuff always costs more but pays you back in spades over the long haul and the years of enjoyment the better parts always provide.
A quick pic and a thread below with alot more detail and information
https://ls1tech.com/forums/manual-tr...ll-review.html
Cheers,
Tony
#63
Now you have me thinking about not installing my LT1-S I just bought. It's a heavy clutch/flywheel. I don't have any shifting issues with the stock clutch as of right now but I only rev it out to 7k as my cam dies out around 66-6700 and I don't have very much faith in my valvetrain to rev it much higher.
Like I said, this clutch offers alot when you start breaking down all the perks it offers and assigning some type of value to them. Hell just the reduction in mass and MOI is worth 12-14 RWHP over stock or a heavy aftermarket unit like you mention. How much would you generally pay for a mod that picks you up that kind of power. I will tell you this that $75 a pony is "par" or perhaps cheap depending on how much power your already making....that's easily worth a grand or so simply viewing that part of the purchase which you might designate under the "power gained from the swap" department (then there are all the other perks related to the various improvements in shifting effort and ability to speed shift etc.).
You get alot for your money if your willing to spend a little more....that's really the bottom line and like most purchases, that offers the end user more value in the end. Value isn't about spending less, its about getting more. In fact I find there is almost always more value in spending more(regarding purchases in general) if your spending your money wisely.
Anyway....like I said....your particular situation shouldn't really feel much different....the largest improvement your making is the ability to hold more power. Would have loved to help you with the modded RPS....if for some reason your thinking about it feel free to contact me and we can get on the phone and discuss in more detail.
-Tony
__________________
Please take the time to also visit my website at www.MamoMotorsports.com
Please take the time to also visit my website at www.MamoMotorsports.com
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 07-25-2017 at 12:26 AM.
#64
Safety Car
The Mantic 9000 kit comes with a smaller diameter flywheel to match the clutch assembly which reduces weight, a good thing. You do not use the standard weight FW.
Doug at ECS will included a pilot bushing and remote bleeder with his kits. And your good to go!
Last edited by Mike's LS3; 07-25-2017 at 12:57 AM.
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DOUG @ ECS (08-02-2017)
#65
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
1) The BC2 for the C6 is not $2800. You can find them for many hundreds less. Even Tony's CNC machinced version is less.
2) Did you personally install these "failed BC2s"? How can you assure that they weren't improperly installed? Seems like you have to go out on a limb to make that kind of statement.
2) Did you personally install these "failed BC2s"? How can you assure that they weren't improperly installed? Seems like you have to go out on a limb to make that kind of statement.
Love the fact that you challenge my or my friend's technical ability to follow correct clutch installation procedure. Lets just say that person has put together motors worth more than your entire car. As if I had to ASSURE you that they're garbage so that you can feel better about the money you already spent. Shows how full of yourself you are. Hows that for a limb? Anyways... sorry to the rest of the readers for the rant. I see the same two or three goon squads in just about every other thread and whenever someone disagrees, they question their competency.
For those who care... talked with Geoff at Mantic today trying to get one of the solid hub twins so I can road course it.
#66
I have installed a mantic or few very good clutch, I went with a spec stage 3 plus this time I do have a used rps clutch that I'm considering rebuilding since they are rebuildable. I had the spec in my track trans am lasted me 6 years spec was amazed when they looked up my purchase date. Lol they gave me a discount....but yea AMP over here in Grand Prairie use the specs on there turbo cars....
#67
I run the Mantic 9000 twin organic disc for two simple reason, I do not track my car and wanted to eliminate the chances of chatter. The organic disc is very much like the oem LS7/3 clutch, however Mantic has a more positive feel of engagement, more holding power and forgiving. No chatter or rattle, just smooth engagement. For street use it is a great clutch and holds up well, for track go with cerematlic disc, as others have said.
The Mantic 9000 kit comes with a smaller diameter flywheel to match the clutch assembly which reduces weight, a good thing. You do not use the standard weight FW.
Doug at ECS will included a pilot bushing and remote bleeder with his kits. And your good to go!
The Mantic 9000 kit comes with a smaller diameter flywheel to match the clutch assembly which reduces weight, a good thing. You do not use the standard weight FW.
Doug at ECS will included a pilot bushing and remote bleeder with his kits. And your good to go!
#68
Melting Slicks
Consider I can get any ofthe clutches i listed previously for well over 500$ less than a BC2, which I have seen fail on cars I've personally done other work on. Disks were worn very prematurely and the purchasers were told "working as intended" by the manufacturer. Yeah, screw that.
Love the fact that you challenge my or my friend's technical ability to follow correct clutch installation procedure. Lets just say that person has put together motors worth more than your entire car. As if I had to ASSURE you that they're garbage so that you can feel better about the money you already spent. Shows how full of yourself you are. Hows that for a limb? Anyways... sorry to the rest of the readers for the rant. I see the same two or three goon squads in just about every other thread and whenever someone disagrees, they question their competency.
For those who care... talked with Geoff at Mantic today trying to get one of the solid hub twins so I can road course it.
Love the fact that you challenge my or my friend's technical ability to follow correct clutch installation procedure. Lets just say that person has put together motors worth more than your entire car. As if I had to ASSURE you that they're garbage so that you can feel better about the money you already spent. Shows how full of yourself you are. Hows that for a limb? Anyways... sorry to the rest of the readers for the rant. I see the same two or three goon squads in just about every other thread and whenever someone disagrees, they question their competency.
For those who care... talked with Geoff at Mantic today trying to get one of the solid hub twins so I can road course it.
One thing is for sure, no other clutch has as much love/hate as the BC line of clutches.
#69
Melting Slicks
The weight of the discs themselves play a big part in this and your moving from a heavy set-up to a heavy set-up so I dont think you will see any improvements in the ability to shift quickly but it probably wont feel any worse either.
Like I said, this clutch offers alot when you start breaking down all the perks it offers and assigning some type of value to them. Hell just the reduction in mass and MOI is worth 12-14 RWHP over stock or a heavy aftermarket unit like you mention. How much would you generally pay for a mod that picks you up that kind of power. I will tell you this that $75 a pony is "par" or perhaps cheap depending on how much power your already making....that's easily worth a grand or so simply viewing that part of the purchase which you might designate under the "power gained from the swap" department (then there are all the other perks related to the various improvements in shifting effort and ability to speed shift etc.).
You get alot for your money if your willing to spend a little more....that's really the bottom line and like most purchases, that offers the end user more value in the end. Value isn't about spending less, its about getting more. In fact I find there is almost always more value in spending more(regarding purchases in general) if your spending your money wisely.
Anyway....like I said....your particular situation shouldn't really feel much different....the largest improvement your making is the ability to hold more power. Would have loved to help you with the modded RPS....if for some reason your thinking about it feel free to contact me and we can get on the phone and discuss in more detail.
-Tony
Like I said, this clutch offers alot when you start breaking down all the perks it offers and assigning some type of value to them. Hell just the reduction in mass and MOI is worth 12-14 RWHP over stock or a heavy aftermarket unit like you mention. How much would you generally pay for a mod that picks you up that kind of power. I will tell you this that $75 a pony is "par" or perhaps cheap depending on how much power your already making....that's easily worth a grand or so simply viewing that part of the purchase which you might designate under the "power gained from the swap" department (then there are all the other perks related to the various improvements in shifting effort and ability to speed shift etc.).
You get alot for your money if your willing to spend a little more....that's really the bottom line and like most purchases, that offers the end user more value in the end. Value isn't about spending less, its about getting more. In fact I find there is almost always more value in spending more(regarding purchases in general) if your spending your money wisely.
Anyway....like I said....your particular situation shouldn't really feel much different....the largest improvement your making is the ability to hold more power. Would have loved to help you with the modded RPS....if for some reason your thinking about it feel free to contact me and we can get on the phone and discuss in more detail.
-Tony
question for you tony,
if you gain HP from dropping rotating mass... do you not lose torque in that exchange?
#70
Basically your engine output isn't being robbed of the "energy" required to accelerate a larger/heavier mass hanging off the end of the crankshaft.....that freed up extra TQ/power is then transmitted to the wheels and tires because of the conservation laws of energy....it all must be accounted for.
This is why the move to a clutch of this type of design adds legit power and torque to the rear wheels. You just freed up some parasitic loss that your former clutch/driveline ate up essentially.
Hope this helps
-Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 08-02-2017 at 02:56 AM.
#71
Le Mans Master
To me that's the best kind of power gain as it requires no bigger cams, no more fuel, or heat, etc...
#72
#73
Melting Slicks
ok so youre not actually gaining from losing rotating mass... it is a more efficient clutch and you are taking less drive train loss... i get you sir thankyou for your response
#74
Did I explain it better now?.....LOL
Hope so! =)
Regards,
Tony
#75
Melting Slicks
i do see what youre saying tony and i have no doubt that you are the man in the know... my confusion stems from a member here used to run a speedshop in knoxville TN and he took me to pick up his crank at a machine shop that he had some work done to... he had the lobes knife edged... said it shaved off several pounds off the crank which would make the rotating mass lighter and would give him more horsepower but he said the trade off was he would lose torque?... so i figured this would be the same math or was he incorrect... i never got final results from him on his car as i have moved around a lot and lost touch with him
#76
i do see what youre saying tony and i have no doubt that you are the man in the know... my confusion stems from a member here used to run a speedshop in knoxville TN and he took me to pick up his crank at a machine shop that he had some work done to... he had the lobes knife edged... said it shaved off several pounds off the crank which would make the rotating mass lighter and would give him more horsepower but he said the trade off was he would lose torque?... so i figured this would be the same math or was he incorrect... i never got final results from him on his car as i have moved around a lot and lost touch with him
It would have freed up torque and HP.....engines only make torque btw....HP is a mathematical calculation derived from TQ (and how much of it) factored in with RPM's.
In simpler terms, HP is basically the rate at which "X" torque value is applied.
-Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 08-05-2017 at 03:49 AM.
#77
Drifting
You can validate this yourself if you have access to a dyno and a heavier wheel/tire combo for one of your vehicles. A lower horsepower car makes this easier to see. Dyno the car with lighter wheels, then put on the heavier wheels and dyno again. You will see a loss of horsepower. The same thing happens with other components in the drivetrain, including the clutch.
#79
Like Tony has been saying, HP is a measurement of torque over time for IC Engines. It is a bit different in the electrical world.
It's always a good thing to eliminate parasitic losses whenever you can. Windage for example, is one to control and get a few "free" ponies. All those little drops of oil hitting a crankshaft can, and does reduce power output. So we do what we can to reduce this, like limit oil to the top end, install valley standoffs to get oil to drain to the pan away from the camshaft (first gen blocks), knife edge counter weights, and install crank scrapers.
If you have an engine on a dyno, and do nothing more than swap out a flywheel with a flex plate (for use with auto trans), and spin both, the engine with the flex plate will make more power (and also rev quicker).
Downside to a light weight flywheel with an engine that has a rowdy camshaft, is low rpm damping from reversion induced missfire/coughing is reduced. A heavier flywheel can help tame this down a bit.
It's always a good thing to eliminate parasitic losses whenever you can. Windage for example, is one to control and get a few "free" ponies. All those little drops of oil hitting a crankshaft can, and does reduce power output. So we do what we can to reduce this, like limit oil to the top end, install valley standoffs to get oil to drain to the pan away from the camshaft (first gen blocks), knife edge counter weights, and install crank scrapers.
If you have an engine on a dyno, and do nothing more than swap out a flywheel with a flex plate (for use with auto trans), and spin both, the engine with the flex plate will make more power (and also rev quicker).
Downside to a light weight flywheel with an engine that has a rowdy camshaft, is low rpm damping from reversion induced missfire/coughing is reduced. A heavier flywheel can help tame this down a bit.