chuntington101

Tony, you want to strap one of those superchargers on to one of your engines to see what a little positive manifold pressure can do for it!

Like you said before you combo should work really well with a little boost. Just maybe not on the stock bottom end (well pistons)!

robz

Pure n/a guys twitch when they hear people say, "just add a little juice or FI."
I can't explain why, we just do.

chuntington101

Haha! It's not the fear of how well the combo will do with boost is it? It's your car and you do what you want with it!

You just don't see what goes into amazing boosted setups as they tend to only be done on very high end builds. But it's all the same stuff that the like of Tony is doing! The cam might be slightly different and the valves / springs might need to be a bit more hardcore but the principles (a good flowing combo / head) is still the same! Engines don't care about boost! It's just thicker air to them. Lol

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Boost is great for certain applications.....a C6Z isn't one of them (my opinion).

To destroy the perfect 50/50 weight balance of the car adding 100+ pounds of blower, coolers (coolant weight), and lines to a car that can easily weigh 3000 lbs with a few reasonably priced weight reduction mods (less than that if you get after it)....it just seems wrong.

And when the right combo can get you low/mid 140 trap speeds naturally aspirated over and over again (no heat soak issues) while still handling and braking phenomenally....its plenty for most people's needs. Lets face it....even this power and level of performance requires alot of grip....dedicated tires etc to really explore its potential. Plus its fun as hell beating up on the unsuspecting boosted cars N/A.....kinda like winning an azz kicking contest with only one leg!

AND....an N/A engine in this state of tune is just ripping responsive....waaaay different than a blown car which really only works well on full kettle and is never as wicked fun and responsive as a normally aspirated engine....even one making 100 HP less.

I own a 2nd gen CTSV with a blower as I mentioned previously so in no way or form am I "anti boost"....in fact in that car it's welcomed (and needed) at 4500 pounds or so with a 200 pound passenger but the C6Z is a completely different animal and its perhaps one of the best examples of a car that really should stay with the high N/A power/light weight theme....it's just an incredible experience with a well thought very optimized naturally aspirated combination and that's typically where I come in handy.....LOL

Cheers guys....hope all of you have an enjoyable Holiday



-Tony

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Thought I would add I spent most of the day testing this engine I recently finished building (and dyno tested today)....a perfect example of the type of power curve a properly optimized N/A engine is capable of

This will be going in a C6Z road race car.....it has a small cam for alot of low end grunt to help the car explode off a corner yet it carries the power extremely well up top and would rev willingly to easily 7400 RPM's or so.....it's barely rolling over at 7K where we terminated the engine dyno testing.

It's a 440 cube engine (OEM sleeved block).....about 11.5 to 1 CR.....small HR (240 @ .050)....should be hell of alot of fun in the C6Z its being installed in!!


Here is a picture of the power curve.....note how flat and wide the torque curve is and the extremely slow roll off even at 7K with very modest cam timing....killer heads are (primarily) what's keeping this engine hanging on with such a short cam. Has over 550 ft/lbs of torque from 3900 RPM to 6700 RPM and over 600 ft/lbs (close to it's 616 peak number) from 4700 to 5900 RPM!!




Some pics of it complete in my shop after all the drysump lines were plumed and cut to length for my dyno stand set-up







And on the dyno just before the first fire up





Good stuff guys!!

I have a really exotic version of this build in the works as well (same displacement but a very detailed (expensive) shortblock with really lightweight parts etc. That engine is designed for a slightly higher operating range also (76-7800 RPM) and will have more compression as well....it's more of a very tricked out race piece but it will also be reasonably cammed and work great in just about anything as long as your willing to feed it E85 or high octane race gas. It's still a few months away still but it should be really spectacular when Im done with it!

I will create a thread about that build after it's complete

sccaGT1racer

How do you think the bigger stroke engine will hold up under road race conditions and why not go for a full ARE or Dailey dry sump for this build?




I will be calling you for a set of heads and cam for my road race ls build. That is a beautiful torque curve.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

The Stg 2 system is pretty good bang for the buck....we got good scavenging....a little bit of crankcase vacuum at WOT and we had plenty of oil pressure with the ported LS9 pump I installed (and better scavenging from the suction side of the OEM pump that I also port). The other stuff you mention is certainly nice (very high quality) but I question how much it really benefits you in actual road race conditions.

I don't see any chance of oil collecting in the sump....pressure is excellent....unless either of those systemes make considerably more vacuum (which they may), the real world benefits would be very marginal in my opinion. I also know alot of guys running that Stg 2 set up successfully....seems to be reliable.

Look forward to helping you with my cylinder heads and a custom cam to compliment down the road....add a ported MSD to the list also unless your already running one of my ported units.....it's simply the best front mount easy to package manifold for these cars hands down and blows away the performance of anything else I have tested. It's an integral part of the equation to alot of the very positive Mamo Motorsports results you may have read about.

Regarding the stroke this is a sleeved OEM block with 5.800 long sleeves.....the piston protrudes from the bottom of the block (sleeve) only slightly more than an OEM stroke in a factory block with a much shorter sleeve.

Cheers,
Tony

MTPZ06

Well said.

Brandon619

I seen that dyno video on your Instagram this morning, I vision you building me a motor in the near future Tony.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Sure....but plan waaaay ahead on a complete engine build. I have very limited time to handle them so lead times are quite lengthy (the silver lining there is it gives you time to spread the payments out).

Also that dyno I posted above is a different engine that I recently completed and just tested this week....looks similar to the engine vid on my IG page however



Cheers,
Tony

robz

I agree!
And a 2018 bump for ya.

Pb82 Ronin

Tony, I would love some flow numbers. That would make me feel more comfortable with purchasing an almost $5K set of heads.

TXGS507

Conversely, the LS7 loooooves a little juice...

Josh B.

I love data, and I agree with this. That said, I've been told that not all flow benches not created equal. Just like dynos, some are happy with the results, and some are heartbreakers.

Eric Fischer

The best dyno, IMHO is the track. I would love to see some 1/4 mile data from this particular car.

Pb82 Ronin

Could be said that not all flow bench operators are the same. Either way, some data is better than no data. In this day in age, people in this community are savvy enough to know exactly that numbers aren't the end all. But as a potential customer, it's a quality control thing for me. There are a great deal of shops out there that do flow test their heads...why should any front runner in the game withhold that data? It makes no sense.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Pick up the phone.....shoot me an email or a PM.....information is quickly provided I assure you.

I feel the need to clarify your "5K set of heads" however.....while you can option my heads (and other high end LS7 heads) to that number and more very quickly, I invested a good bit of time years ago to provide a pretty comprehensive package at almost a grand less than that. My base package MMS 265 is $4295 and its pretty well equipped. 100% CNC porting....hand finishing in all the key areas of flow (chambers, bowls, short turns, etc.) in fact your picture above depicts this quite well. Includes a .650 lift spring, titanium retainer, cc and milling to adjust final chamber volume, custom hollow stem intake valves, and a reasonably lightweight solid exhaust valve. This head naturally features custom valvejob and proprietary seat and back cut angles (and widths) and attention to detail overall not generally seen without spending a good deal of money on custom cylinder heads (nothing out of the box compares). I also clearance the pushrod tubes for you guys ahead of time for 3/8 pushrods so you don't have to deal with that out on the field with a clean set of heads ready to be installed. All of this is included in my base package.

Regarding flow I don't have the whole curve at my fingertips and its 4AM and some change so Im calling it a night after this post but your looking at an intake port that is 5cc's smaller than an unported OEM head that flows right at 410 CFM around .700 lift (low 400's even at .650) and and exhaust port generally in the low/mid 260's at the same lift. For the guys looking for every last edge I offer an optional exhaust upgrade now with a different valvejob and a larger throat that's completely hand finished from valvejob to port exit and that pushes the exhaust over 270 CFM which is really strong for a port with the LS7 architecture (very crowded and pushed close to the chamber wall due to the original OEM design making room for that large intake valve).

These numbers are on an accurate flowbench that reads similar to an SF600 and tested properly using radius entry plates (no clay BS) and a curved tube that mimics the first 8" of a header (good real world simulation).
I should add on the same bench with the same fixtures etc. a stock LS7 head flows 365 - 370 CFM on the intake and 215 - 220 on the exhaust for reference because at the end of the day a flowbench is just like a dyno where the only thing really applicable is your stock baseline and your final numbers and how much you have gained. Besides the fact some shops advertise inflated flow figures to benefit sales (as few people have the means to check) every flowbench reads differently and comparing data from different equipment is really a huge waste of time. Then you factor in procedures and the fact most shops don't even use the correct bore fixtures and radius plates and the like and it just keeps getting murkier from there.

Thats it for now....hitting the rack to start all over again on Wednesday



Cheers,
Tony

nuke61

Like a dyno or flowbench, only if compared with similar conditions. Results at Englishtown are going to be very different (better) than at Wildhorse Pass in Phoenix.

Pb82 Ronin

Thanks for the reply Tony. I'll shoot you a PM. I was by no means attempting to negate or IL-legitimize the time/research/products you offer. As the consumer, I'm just trying to get as much information as possible before a major purchase.

Josh B.