[Z06] Wiggle Test Video - Need Feedback
03-05-2018, 04:35 PM
#41
Instructor
03-05-2018, 04:45 PM
#42
Drifting
Do you just say "Well it sucks to be in that 8 tenths of one percent?"
Nothing is overblown when it happens to you. Until it happens to you, you shouldn't use adjectives like "overblown" to give bad advice to owners and give them a false sense of security.
03-05-2018, 05:27 PM
#43
Race Director
Less than 8 tenths of one percent of an engine failure is less than the number of engine failures caused by other issues.
Sorry if that fact annoys anyone.
Information to make correct decisions can be useful.
Don't attack the messenger otherwise otherwise you end up with a mob mentality that's feeds amongst themselves to justify their actions.
For those of any brand that have any kind of mechanical failure it obviously sucks.
To play on emotions to motivate spending of money is inappropriate.
how many preowned z06 s have sold under original owners expected value because of this less than 8 tenths of one percent occurance.
The cost of unwarranted depreciation is much more expensive.
The occurance of engine failure causes is often misdiagnosed.
Especially with such an Internet fever.
I feel for you guys. My original statement stands that if the heads are being removed for proper inspection the owner might as well order up a set of improved heads and get some performance and residual value bump if their are spending the labor costs....of going through the correct process.
Best wishes to the original poster and no insult intended by me for your difficult path or choices.
For those that spend the money for reworked heads on their vehicle I am not attacking you for your action or your words against anyone like my self who suggests the things I have.
I understand the process.
Best wishes and no insults to me are necessary.
The repetitive mob mentality of inaccurate testing procedure as acceptable proof is really wild in this forum in a continual basis.
The fact is the test being utilized for determined need for new heads is inaccurate. Fear mongering is not rational thought. The video test is not an appropriate test. Rational thought has left the building still I get the desire to eliminate a less than an 8 tenths of one percent chance of a defective casting of the ls7 heads.
I believe whatever decision the owner of an ls7 makes should be made on accurate information. The wiggle test with the heads installed is not a valid test but that doesn't mean a person should not decide what is best for them.
I'm just suggesting engine failure causes exist at much higher causal rates are being ignored.
Take cam failure rates as an example .... I would imagine cam failure rates are actually greater cause of engine failures percentage wise but there is no fan fair for that statement. No residual loss for cars without a new cam installed.
The real question is why is that so...
Please accept my apologies to being such a dick.
Carry on
Ignorance is bliss.
Be happy.
Sorry if that fact annoys anyone.
Information to make correct decisions can be useful.
Don't attack the messenger otherwise otherwise you end up with a mob mentality that's feeds amongst themselves to justify their actions.
For those of any brand that have any kind of mechanical failure it obviously sucks.
To play on emotions to motivate spending of money is inappropriate.
how many preowned z06 s have sold under original owners expected value because of this less than 8 tenths of one percent occurance.
The cost of unwarranted depreciation is much more expensive.
The occurance of engine failure causes is often misdiagnosed.
Especially with such an Internet fever.
I feel for you guys. My original statement stands that if the heads are being removed for proper inspection the owner might as well order up a set of improved heads and get some performance and residual value bump if their are spending the labor costs....of going through the correct process.
Best wishes to the original poster and no insult intended by me for your difficult path or choices.
For those that spend the money for reworked heads on their vehicle I am not attacking you for your action or your words against anyone like my self who suggests the things I have.
I understand the process.
Best wishes and no insults to me are necessary.
The repetitive mob mentality of inaccurate testing procedure as acceptable proof is really wild in this forum in a continual basis.
The fact is the test being utilized for determined need for new heads is inaccurate. Fear mongering is not rational thought. The video test is not an appropriate test. Rational thought has left the building still I get the desire to eliminate a less than an 8 tenths of one percent chance of a defective casting of the ls7 heads.
I believe whatever decision the owner of an ls7 makes should be made on accurate information. The wiggle test with the heads installed is not a valid test but that doesn't mean a person should not decide what is best for them.
I'm just suggesting engine failure causes exist at much higher causal rates are being ignored.
Take cam failure rates as an example .... I would imagine cam failure rates are actually greater cause of engine failures percentage wise but there is no fan fair for that statement. No residual loss for cars without a new cam installed.
The real question is why is that so...
Please accept my apologies to being such a dick.
Carry on
Ignorance is bliss.
Be happy.
Last edited by JerriVette; 03-05-2018 at 05:45 PM.
03-05-2018, 06:02 PM
#44
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Nov 2003
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
Heck if the heads are off, you labor is mostly done, Id have it fix.
I appreciate you’re perspective, thanks for your feedback.
My heads will be pulled and measured by a competent machine shop. However, it is pretty certain, that if they are moving like they are then they will be bad. I was very surprised to see that much movement, under full tension, especially the intakes. There is too much empirical evidence to ignore the issue and I don’t want to drop a valve at 170mph. I will not get into a protracted discussion with you, thanks for your comments.
My heads will be pulled and measured by a competent machine shop. However, it is pretty certain, that if they are moving like they are then they will be bad. I was very surprised to see that much movement, under full tension, especially the intakes. There is too much empirical evidence to ignore the issue and I don’t want to drop a valve at 170mph. I will not get into a protracted discussion with you, thanks for your comments.
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meanjoe (03-05-2018)
03-05-2018, 10:01 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
Hey TooFast, let's get this right... everyone knows to fix the problem you also need msd intake, nwtb, arh headers, akrapovic titanium with cf tips, ls9 clutch, race porting, under pulley, mf107, and tune. Anything less and I will be disappointed, might not get top dollar when it comes time to sell me the car. But hey, that ought to get you over the 200mph mark right folks?
Haha, still... I bet I know what is keeping you up at night... To use cores or wait for your original heads back?
Haha, still... I bet I know what is keeping you up at night... To use cores or wait for your original heads back?
03-06-2018, 07:49 AM
#49
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Hey TooFast, let's get this right... everyone knows to fix the problem you also need msd intake, nwtb, arh headers, akrapovic titanium with cf tips, ls9 clutch, race porting, under pulley, mf107, and tune. Anything less and I will be disappointed, might not get top dollar when it comes time to sell me the car. But hey, that ought to get you over the 200mph mark right folks?
Haha, still... I bet I know what is keeping you up at night... To use cores or wait for your original heads back?
Haha, still... I bet I know what is keeping you up at night... To use cores or wait for your original heads back?
03-06-2018, 12:52 PM
#50
Team Owner
Less than 8 tenths of one percent of an engine failure is less than the number of engine failures caused by other issues.
Sorry if that fact annoys anyone.
Information to make correct decisions can be useful.
Don't attack the messenger otherwise otherwise you end up with a mob mentality that's feeds amongst themselves to justify their actions.
For those of any brand that have any kind of mechanical failure it obviously sucks.
To play on emotions to motivate spending of money is inappropriate.
how many preowned z06 s have sold under original owners expected value because of this less than 8 tenths of one percent occurance.
The cost of unwarranted depreciation is much more expensive.
The occurance of engine failure causes is often misdiagnosed.
Especially with such an Internet fever.
I feel for you guys. My original statement stands that if the heads are being removed for proper inspection the owner might as well order up a set of improved heads and get some performance and residual value bump if their are spending the labor costs....of going through the correct process.
Best wishes to the original poster and no insult intended by me for your difficult path or choices.
For those that spend the money for reworked heads on their vehicle I am not attacking you for your action or your words against anyone like my self who suggests the things I have.
I understand the process.
Best wishes and no insults to me are necessary.
The repetitive mob mentality of inaccurate testing procedure as acceptable proof is really wild in this forum in a continual basis.
The fact is the test being utilized for determined need for new heads is inaccurate. Fear mongering is not rational thought. The video test is not an appropriate test. Rational thought has left the building still I get the desire to eliminate a less than an 8 tenths of one percent chance of a defective casting of the ls7 heads.
I believe whatever decision the owner of an ls7 makes should be made on accurate information. The wiggle test with the heads installed is not a valid test but that doesn't mean a person should not decide what is best for them.
I'm just suggesting engine failure causes exist at much higher causal rates are being ignored.
Take cam failure rates as an example .... I would imagine cam failure rates are actually greater cause of engine failures percentage wise but there is no fan fair for that statement. No residual loss for cars without a new cam installed.
The real question is why is that so...
Please accept my apologies to being such a dick.
Carry on
Ignorance is bliss.
Be happy.
Sorry if that fact annoys anyone.
Information to make correct decisions can be useful.
Don't attack the messenger otherwise otherwise you end up with a mob mentality that's feeds amongst themselves to justify their actions.
For those of any brand that have any kind of mechanical failure it obviously sucks.
To play on emotions to motivate spending of money is inappropriate.
how many preowned z06 s have sold under original owners expected value because of this less than 8 tenths of one percent occurance.
The cost of unwarranted depreciation is much more expensive.
The occurance of engine failure causes is often misdiagnosed.
Especially with such an Internet fever.
I feel for you guys. My original statement stands that if the heads are being removed for proper inspection the owner might as well order up a set of improved heads and get some performance and residual value bump if their are spending the labor costs....of going through the correct process.
Best wishes to the original poster and no insult intended by me for your difficult path or choices.
For those that spend the money for reworked heads on their vehicle I am not attacking you for your action or your words against anyone like my self who suggests the things I have.
I understand the process.
Best wishes and no insults to me are necessary.
The repetitive mob mentality of inaccurate testing procedure as acceptable proof is really wild in this forum in a continual basis.
The fact is the test being utilized for determined need for new heads is inaccurate. Fear mongering is not rational thought. The video test is not an appropriate test. Rational thought has left the building still I get the desire to eliminate a less than an 8 tenths of one percent chance of a defective casting of the ls7 heads.
I believe whatever decision the owner of an ls7 makes should be made on accurate information. The wiggle test with the heads installed is not a valid test but that doesn't mean a person should not decide what is best for them.
I'm just suggesting engine failure causes exist at much higher causal rates are being ignored.
Take cam failure rates as an example .... I would imagine cam failure rates are actually greater cause of engine failures percentage wise but there is no fan fair for that statement. No residual loss for cars without a new cam installed.
The real question is why is that so...
Please accept my apologies to being such a dick.
Carry on
Ignorance is bliss.
Be happy.
03-07-2018, 08:16 PM
#51
Intermediate
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Denver
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Do yourself a big favor and get those heads fixed. Mine was exactly like your and I didn't, and now have a $8000 re-build. Any good head vendor on here will check them and prove to you they need fixed. Every z06 owner should do this unless they want a new engine. If I would have done this I would have $6000 to make the car faster. Now I have $8000 in it and 25 more HP because I didn't have the money to do any other upgrade at the same time. You have all the proof you need. Good Luck
03-08-2018, 03:10 AM
#52
Safety Car
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Do yourself a big favor and get those heads fixed. Mine was exactly like your and I didn't, and now have a $8000 re-build. Any good head vendor on here will check them and prove to you they need fixed. Every z06 owner should do this unless they want a new engine. If I would have done this I would have $6000 to make the car faster. Now I have $8000 in it and 25 more HP because I didn't have the money to do any other upgrade at the same time. You have all the proof you need. Good Luck
03-08-2018, 04:58 AM
#53
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Harbor City California
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310-326-2399
We have core heads in stock that we can make ready for you if your looking to cut down on down time.
https://www.americanheritageperformance.com/
03-08-2018, 09:56 AM
#54
Burning Brakes
Do yourself a big favor and get those heads fixed. Mine was exactly like your and I didn't, and now have a $8000 re-build. Any good head vendor on here will check them and prove to you they need fixed. Every z06 owner should do this unless they want a new engine. If I would have done this I would have $6000 to make the car faster. Now I have $8000 in it and 25 more HP because I didn't have the money to do any other upgrade at the same time. You have all the proof you need. Good Luck
03-08-2018, 12:49 PM
#55
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[QUOTE=1972bluelt1;1596741465]What happened to your engine that cost $8k instead of the cost of a complete new one. Was the block reusable?[/QUO
Drop Exhaust Valve cylinder #6
New ls7 from GM $11,000
New Block $3100
New Heads done right $3400
New Piston, new rod, new pin $1200
Gaskets, Fluids ?
Install Me.
Drop Exhaust Valve cylinder #6
New ls7 from GM $11,000
New Block $3100
New Heads done right $3400
New Piston, new rod, new pin $1200
Gaskets, Fluids ?
Install Me.
03-08-2018, 04:46 PM
#57
So this is a video of a "wiggle test" on my 2011 Z07 with 3100 miles I just did this afternoon. It is the passenger side bank and I did not remove the valve springs...I felt that if there is movement with the valve springs on, then there would be much more with them removed.
I was surprised to see the intake valves moving more then the exhaust I would appreciate it if those with experience in this area would chime in with your perspective. Should there be this much movement? Do I need to remove the springs or am I done with the movement demonstrated in the video? Thank for your feedback in advance. Oh, and the audio is a little low, sorry.
I was surprised to see the intake valves moving more then the exhaust I would appreciate it if those with experience in this area would chime in with your perspective. Should there be this much movement? Do I need to remove the springs or am I done with the movement demonstrated in the video? Thank for your feedback in advance. Oh, and the audio is a little low, sorry.
Do not drive the car park until fixed..
Here is a good video showing wear from the top an he has them marked with a bore gauge.
Last edited by 2fastz06; 03-08-2018 at 04:46 PM.
03-08-2018, 07:52 PM
#58
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After watching until the 13 sec mark that was all I needed to see those are toast,
Do not drive the car park until fixed..
Here is a good video showing wear from the top an he has them marked with a bore gauge. https://youtu.be/N9ctjV3AlS4
Do not drive the car park until fixed..
Here is a good video showing wear from the top an he has them marked with a bore gauge. https://youtu.be/N9ctjV3AlS4
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REDZED2 (03-08-2018)
03-08-2018, 08:09 PM
#59
You pulled the heads? Or did you incorrectly test them on the car? My buddy is "the corvette mechanic" who does the Carlisle, bowling green , mid America, Bloomington gold service seminars and he is too tired to keep answering this question on line because people don't listen...
The wiggle test is not being done correctly and people are needlessly and incorrectly determining their car has a valve guide or valve angle problem...
He services my car and I bring this topic up from time to time and he just says how many times can you have this discussion on incorrect testing to incorrectly determine if your car needs new heads...
With 3100 miles your really just in the mood to do something with your z06 and if that's the case...have fun...
But from a reality standpoint...you really aren't doing the test correctly which cannot be done with the heads on the motor.
The incidence rate is less than 8 tenths of one percent.
I ve heard the heads can be done relatively inexpensively so if it makes you feel better do the heads but the issue has been overblown because of the Internet forums scaring would be buyers lowering residuals for literally an issue that has occurred less than 8 tenths of one percent ...
You d have a greater chance of a cam failure than a valve dropping failure but it doesn't matter those whose engines fail are automatically told by the "tuner" it was the valve issue...again just overblowing the fear in owners and would be owners to replace the heads.
I'm not going to argue with those who already changed their heads out of fear as they are venomous in their retorts and I am just suggesting with 3100 miles the chance of your valves being an issue are minuscule...literally less than 8 tenths of one percent of all ls7 s produced...
Anyway replacing the heads is relatively inexpensive so for those that feel better doing them. I'm sure the heads being replaced will enhance the resale value as the z06 residuals collapsed on this internet rumor being blown out of proportion. By paying "tuners" to replace the heads which is not expensive you are improving your residual values based off the fears that are created by these forum and tuners misdiagnosing any and all issues as valve issues...
Congratulations and no insult intended.
Just a perspective to consider since you asked the question..
We did over 200 episodes of the corvette mechanic podcast together.
The wiggle test is not being done correctly and people are needlessly and incorrectly determining their car has a valve guide or valve angle problem...
He services my car and I bring this topic up from time to time and he just says how many times can you have this discussion on incorrect testing to incorrectly determine if your car needs new heads...
With 3100 miles your really just in the mood to do something with your z06 and if that's the case...have fun...
But from a reality standpoint...you really aren't doing the test correctly which cannot be done with the heads on the motor.
The incidence rate is less than 8 tenths of one percent.
I ve heard the heads can be done relatively inexpensively so if it makes you feel better do the heads but the issue has been overblown because of the Internet forums scaring would be buyers lowering residuals for literally an issue that has occurred less than 8 tenths of one percent ...
You d have a greater chance of a cam failure than a valve dropping failure but it doesn't matter those whose engines fail are automatically told by the "tuner" it was the valve issue...again just overblowing the fear in owners and would be owners to replace the heads.
I'm not going to argue with those who already changed their heads out of fear as they are venomous in their retorts and I am just suggesting with 3100 miles the chance of your valves being an issue are minuscule...literally less than 8 tenths of one percent of all ls7 s produced...
Anyway replacing the heads is relatively inexpensive so for those that feel better doing them. I'm sure the heads being replaced will enhance the resale value as the z06 residuals collapsed on this internet rumor being blown out of proportion. By paying "tuners" to replace the heads which is not expensive you are improving your residual values based off the fears that are created by these forum and tuners misdiagnosing any and all issues as valve issues...
Congratulations and no insult intended.
Just a perspective to consider since you asked the question..
We did over 200 episodes of the corvette mechanic podcast together.
makes perfect sense man lmfao
03-19-2018, 11:07 AM
#60
You know what would make me feel better? If someone actually tested their valves and found them IN SPEC. I cant find one record on the forum of that happening.
Anyone got a link where someone measured their valves and found them within GM tolerance?
Anyone got a link where someone measured their valves and found them within GM tolerance?