WCCH Heads Shot at 17k miles
04-03-2018, 12:13 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
WCCH Heads Shot at 17k miles
Just saw a similar thread and thought I'd join the club. For the record, my intention is not to bash WCCH. I think they do great work and the heads make good power. I just don't think their "fix", which is the same as many other shops, will last any reasonable amount of time for pretty much all of us. I know what it feels like to put thousands of dollars into your heads and then have to put even more into them after only 17k miles so hopefully this post saves some others time, money, and maybe their lives in the event they avoid dropping a valve at 100+ mph.
The first video was at 12k miles when I checked two valves and wasn't happy with the results. 5k miles later I had my heads off and found alarming wear on most intake and exhaust guides. A few are pretty tight but most are not. Worst of all the coating wore off my intake valves and now they all need to be replaced. This caused the intake guides to wear even faster and I believe I was close to a catastrophic failure. My solid REV exhaust valve finish looks fine but the associated guides are not.
After looking into every possible option including putting a ls3 in my car and selling my car, I have decided to ship my heads to AHP to get moldstar guides, new OEM intake valves, and new Ferrea hollow exhaust valves. Fingers crossed!
I'm not sure it really matters but I know someone will ask. Stock rockers and .658 lift cam
P.s. I regularly talk to others who have had the same or worse results, several times in some cases, so don't go saying this is just me.
The first video was at 12k miles when I checked two valves and wasn't happy with the results. 5k miles later I had my heads off and found alarming wear on most intake and exhaust guides. A few are pretty tight but most are not. Worst of all the coating wore off my intake valves and now they all need to be replaced. This caused the intake guides to wear even faster and I believe I was close to a catastrophic failure. My solid REV exhaust valve finish looks fine but the associated guides are not.
After looking into every possible option including putting a ls3 in my car and selling my car, I have decided to ship my heads to AHP to get moldstar guides, new OEM intake valves, and new Ferrea hollow exhaust valves. Fingers crossed!
I'm not sure it really matters but I know someone will ask. Stock rockers and .658 lift cam
P.s. I regularly talk to others who have had the same or worse results, several times in some cases, so don't go saying this is just me.
Last edited by rio95; 04-03-2018 at 12:15 AM.
04-03-2018, 08:22 AM
#3
Unfortunate news, Hopefully within time members and vendors can figure out this issue and put it behind us. I really like my Z06 but issues like this worry me. Good luck with the upcoming fix sir
04-03-2018, 08:29 AM
#4
Safety Car
I think sooner or later people are gonna come to conclusion the only way to truly fix these heads for long-term reliability is using a set of roller rockers. With a .658 lift the stock rockers are going to put a lot of side loading on the valve stem. I can't say with confidence that the moldstar 90 guides can even withstand long periods of time with that amount side loading.
I have been using the YT's for a year now and no issues. I'm going to take the valve covers off next week and do a wiggle test.
Here is my wipe pattern
I have been using the YT's for a year now and no issues. I'm going to take the valve covers off next week and do a wiggle test.
Here is my wipe pattern
Last edited by vertC6; 04-03-2018 at 08:31 AM.
04-03-2018, 08:55 AM
#6
Safety Car
One other note, that REV exhaust valve with a dual spring is going to bounce like a five-year-old on the trampoline, I would throw it out and use the Ferrea hollow stem with the PSI 1515 beehive with a Ti retainer.
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RJ-92 (04-04-2018)
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FSTFRC (04-03-2018)
04-03-2018, 09:12 AM
#8
Drifting
The camshaft lobe profile also affects the overall stress on the valvetrain. I believe the valve side loading on the LS7 begins to become less than ideal at just over .630" lift, and even less ideal than that at over .660" lift. A lot of Katech 116 cams out there on OE rockers with lifts just under .650"; I'm assuming I'll be safe with TSP's .635" lift on their lobes designed for LS engines.
04-03-2018, 09:46 AM
#9
Safety Car
Rio95,
Do you perform this test yourself? just curious..
Do you perform this test yourself? just curious..
04-03-2018, 10:45 AM
#10
bleh...I am at 17k on my WCCH heads as well, with a BTR 2 cam...noisy freaking valvetrain and I am super nervous about having to deal with this again, not even a year after getting them on.
04-03-2018, 10:48 AM
#12
Melting Slicks
If anyone knows, its NASCAR and AHP. TI retainers included. At 6k miles my Engine valve train was making noise I didn’t like, and upon inspection by AHP one exhaust valve guide was way out of spec and three others were Borderline! Now, at idle my valve train is quiet, so quiet you can not compare IT to AHP head repair! My engine and exhaust is stock, and makes 500rwhp (mustang) with .020 milled heads and CAI. I didn’t mention the port and polish, engine flys to 7k!
04-03-2018, 11:00 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I like dual springs personally. I've had one of the two break before in another car so I feel like the second spring saved me. Kohle said my current springs are a good option so I'm just going to stay with them especially since they only have about 1k miles on them. I hear there are some dual beehive springs out now too.
04-03-2018, 11:50 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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FSTFRC (04-03-2018)
04-03-2018, 11:53 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The camshaft lobe profile also affects the overall stress on the valvetrain. I believe the valve side loading on the LS7 begins to become less than ideal at just over .630" lift, and even less ideal than that at over .660" lift. A lot of Katech 116 cams out there on OE rockers with lifts just under .650"; I'm assuming I'll be safe with TSP's .635" lift on their lobes designed for LS engines.
04-03-2018, 12:29 PM
#16
I had a stock LS7 lifter axle back out as well on an exhaust valve. Can't say it was due to the valve weight but I decided to get Johnson drop in lifters and hollow Ferrea exhaust valves just in case. Also, I didn't like the wear I was seeing on the top of my REV valves. I wanted the Ferrea valves back when I first did my heads but they were a little to new for me and most the big shops were promoting solid.
I like dual springs personally. I've had one of the two break before in another car so I feel like the second spring saved me. Kohle said my current springs are a good option so I'm just going to stay with them especially since they only have about 1k miles on them. I hear there are some dual beehive springs out now too.
04-03-2018, 12:32 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
I think sooner or later people are gonna come to conclusion the only way to truly fix these heads for long-term reliability is using a set of roller rockers. With a .658 lift the stock rockers are going to put a lot of side loading on the valve stem. I can't say with confidence that the moldstar 90 guides can even withstand long periods of time with that amount side loading.
I have been using the YT's for a year now and no issues. I'm going to take the valve covers off next week and do a wiggle test.
Here is my wipe pattern
I have been using the YT's for a year now and no issues. I'm going to take the valve covers off next week and do a wiggle test.
Here is my wipe pattern
This. Side loading will kill the guide much more rapidly than a properly aligned setup. Shaft rockers would be best, but any rocker that offers no preload should be put on immediately.
04-03-2018, 12:42 PM
#18
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
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Setting aside the issue of $$, would a full shaft/roller set-up be the most one can do to mitigate this issue?
04-03-2018, 12:43 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
How is there a con to running a roller or shaft rocker? They are better than the stocker in EVERY WAY possible...(other than cost of course).
04-03-2018, 12:45 PM
#20
Drifting
Are you certain that your WCCH bronze guides are not shot because of the high valve side loading or perhaps it may have had something to do with the fact that you had bronze valve guides and heavy solid SS Rev valves? Chances are it's more than one factor. I don't have all the answers, either - I know LME uses solid SS valves and they build great stuff.
AHP doesn't offer bronze valve guides on their LS7 heads for a reason. If you're going to run bronze guides than you need to address the surface finish of the valves as Katech does with their TiMo coating on their valves, and they stand behind their solution. What TSP and WCCH have to say on this issue, I am not certain. For me, with AHP's Moldstar 90 valve guides, tumble polished DW Ti intake valves, Ferrea exhaust valves, and a CHE trunnion kit with manganese bronze trunnions, I banked my build/investment on the total solution.
Who knows, maybe my Moldstar 90 guides will stay true but the valves will start to wear because of the high valve side loading at even .635" inches of lobe lift. Only time will tell.