When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Time for valve guides, and a few upgrades while I'm in there
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Great thread but also depressing to see that almost anyone that checks their "fixed" heads after 10k miles needs to do a rebuild. Seems like there really isn't a true fix yet...
My WCCH heads after 12K miles and a good number of performance events (heads were checked by WCCH while I was having the bottom end forged):
Has anyone measured piston to valve clearance with around a .660 lift camshaft, 0.040" Cometic head gaskets, Stock heads shaved 0.045" and using stock pistons? I realize how the camshaft is degreed etc will play a part. I'm mainly curious if I'm close or still have room to go in there. I see the Lingenfelter GT21 camshaft with .691/.702 lift will work with stock pistons, but they don't mention stock head gaskets and non-shaved heads is a must.
I've seen your thread Dave. Your thread and Mordeth's thread are the only one's I've seen that show in spec valves. Curious, you went with Katech's intake valves and stock solid or hollow exhaust valves?
Curious, you went with Katech's intake valves and stock solid or hollow exhaust valves?
As I recall back when I was planning the HCI work, Katech was still a strong supporter of the OEM exhaust valves (which I used, new) for many applications, but had their TiMo intake valves, which would work better in the CHE bronze guides than the OEM Ti valves. The Katech TiMo valves are 2.5X the cost of the OEM Ti valves and 10X the cost of new OEM exhaust valves. I was comfortable that their position on the OEM exhaust valves would be fine for my needs. I believe Katech, who has taken there head builds in house now, is still supportive if the OEM exhaust valves for many builds.
I never plan to go FI or NOS, which could change the decision for those that may go in that direction.
As I recall back when I was planning the HCI work, Katech was still a strong supporter of the OEM exhaust valves (which I used, new) for many applications, but had their TiMo intake valves, which would work better in the CHE bronze guides than the OEM Ti valves. The Katech TiMo valves are 2.5X the cost of the OEM Ti valves and 10X the cost of new OEM exhaust valves. I was comfortable that their position on the OEM exhaust valves would be fine for my needs. I believe Katech, who has taken there head builds in house now, is still supportive if the OEM exhaust valves for many builds.
I never plan to go FI or NOS, which could change the decision for those that may go in that direction.
Katech was promoting the stock exhaust valves when I called. Looking at the Log files when I drive, tune and race with very frequent visits to 7500+ rpms, I felt I should seriously consider the titanium exhaust valves.
Katech was promoting the stock exhaust valves when I called. Looking at the Log files when I drive, tune and race with very frequent visits to 7500+ rpms, I felt I should seriously consider the titanium exhaust valves.
I do 2-4 casual road course events a year and a few other events that do not put as much stress on the engine plus I have a 7300 RPM FSO, do run the engine to 7K+ during those events. If I was going FI or other power adders or running 10-12 events for time I would have upgraded to the TiMo exhaust valves or steel if FI.
I do 2-4 casual road course events a year and a few other events that do not put as much stress on the engine plus I have a 7300 RPM FSO, do run the engine to 7K+ during those events. If I was going FI or other power adders or running 10-12 events for time I would have upgraded to the TiMo exhaust valves or steel if FI.
Out of curiosity, did you degree the K501 camshaft at +3, 0, or different?
I don't see a recommendation on their website. I Desktop Dynoed the cam from -2 to +3 and it looks like if we have variable valve timing this cam would be an even better all around performer. I'm leaning toward just under +2 based on average hp/tq calculations through the entire rpm range. It gives up some low and some high but highest average numbers when combining HP and TQ. I'm really splitting hairs right now on paper (aka excel spreadsheet) but having fun.
Im pretty sure the ICL is 110 so its already a +3.
I ground a 236/252 113 +4 @ 0.648" I 0.630" E using cammotion lobes. Very happy with it.
The 110 ICL is what the Desktop dyno has so I guess I put the numbers in correctly. Learning/Re-learning this part. I may have to break out some books since It have been, well, flat tappet era for me to do this stuff.
Your cam is similar to the Titan 3 cam except the you have a +4 after the 113 and they have .639 exhaust lift.
Out of curiosity, did you degree the K501 camshaft at +3, 0, or different?
I don't see a recommendation on their website. I Desktop Dynoed the cam from -2 to +3 and it looks like if we have variable valve timing this cam would be an even better all around performer. I'm leaning toward just under +2 based on average hp/tq calculations through the entire rpm range. It gives up some low and some high but highest average numbers when combining HP and TQ. I'm really splitting hairs right now on paper (aka excel spreadsheet) but having fun.
CPR did the whole HCI work so I do not know how they degreed the cam timing. While I generally understand what you are asking and I've build one 4 cylinder engine 40+ years ago, I don't consider myself an engine guy or really a mechanic although I do all the routine maintenance on my Z. I've always been the "driver" and could tell the suspension guys what the car was doing and then they could improve the setup from my feedback.
Yessir - lower exhaust lift to slow the valve down and +4 to bring the redline down a hair since I want a bit more low end.
Originally Posted by MickVette
The 110 ICL is what the Desktop dyno has so I guess I put the numbers in correctly. Learning/Re-learning this part. I may have to break out some books since It have been, well, flat tappet era for me to do this stuff.
Your cam is similar to the Titan 3 cam except the you have a +4 after the 113 and they have .639 exhaust lift.
I paid to have two cams spec'd out by the Guerra Group, bought Desktop Dyno 5, plugged in my own known results with my current camshaft and started comparing 18 camshafts that interested me in a spreadsheet. Turns out my current camshaft is pretty healthy until higher rpms. Most of the camshafts I was interested in gave up a lot of low rpm torque in favor of decent high RPM horsepower gains. To my surprise the Katech K501 did great with the AI port flows and was a nice compromise for my goals of an everything car. It only gave up about 6 lb*ft of torque just above idle and surpassed my old camshaft around 2500 rpms with good HP gains at higher rpms with the ability to rev out better. I don't have my desktop dyno with my right now so no exact numbers to reference.
No hijack at all. This was a big part of my calculations and time spent deciding which components to choose. They all have to work together. If I would have chosen a different camshaft I might have chosen different valve guide material, valves, springs and company to go with. Totally relevant in my eyes.
Originally Posted by MickVette
After looking at 18 different cams that I was interested in, I was able to start grouping them together and really start picking them apart on the Desktop Dyno. You just have to find the best match for your goals. No cam is perfect so areas that I am willing to deal with may differ for you. Tuning plays a big part too. I work with Tampa Tuning to get me an awesome tune with a great starting point, then take it over from there but keeping Tampa Tuning in the loop as I modify parts to work together better as I see weaknesses in the combination trying to maximize each part. I have 129 tunes on my own from trying different combinations and all sorts of ideas.
The Titan 3 wasn't on my radar. I'll have to put that one in and see how it does. It looks like it would handle a slightly heavier exhaust valve quite well with the .639 lift and longer duration. Everyone knows the B3 is a beast but you give up some low end torque. I like rolling out of my driveway, smacking the throttle and annihilating the tires from barely above idle. I don't think the B3 will do that without a little clutch work.
Originally Posted by MickVette
I just plugged that Titan 3 camshaft into the desktop dyno and it performed like a K501 shadow. It was right there the entire torque and hp curves. 2 avg hp and 2 avg torque within each other. If I were using a heavier exhaust valve with moldstar 90 guides I think the Titan 3 would be the better choice. With the titanium exhaust valve I feel the K501 is the better choice. Again, this is just a Desktop Dyno induced guess and there are so many other factors to consider.
They do have a lot in common and all three perform within 3 avg HP and 2 avg Torque of each other on the Desktop Dyno. I think it comes down to personal preference. All three suppliers(designers?) of these camshafts provide great products, fantastic customer service, and are very helpful on the phone.
I'm a spreadsheet geek and love to calculate things. I like the K501's higher intake lift which calculates to a slightly higher choke rpm using this calculator: http://www.wallaceracing.com/machcalc.php
I do realize the other BTR3 and Titan 3's slightly longer intake duration totally equaled things out. The lesser duration of the K501 might be the make or break if piston to valve clearance becomes a potential issue.
Hello MickVette,
It would be my privilege to help you get the perfect camshaft for your build. I notice many of the camshafts that you are evaluating are designed for the LS1/LS2 engines. To get the best possible performance out of your LS7, you need a camshaft that was designed for an LS7 and your desired driving characteristics and performance goals.
I would be glad to discuss which of these might be a good fit your you, or design a custom camshaft for you at no extra charge. You can send all the details of your build, desired driving characteristics and performance goals to Steven at CamMotion.com
~Steven
__________________
The Switch Is On To Cam Motion! 40 years of Championship Winning Experience • Superior 8620 Steel Camshaft Cores • Quiet, Smooth & Powerful Lobe Design • Virtually Unlimited Lift and Duration Combinations • Finish Polished For Quiet Operation • Cam Doctor Printout With All Cams
The Industry's Best Customer Service www.CamMotion.com • ☎ 866-461-9536 • Like Us On Facebook!
Last edited by cammotion perf; 10-29-2018 at 10:06 AM.
Currently, Katech is assembling the heads to the K501 specs. I will be trying 2 or 3 different camshafts so I will be purchasing a 2 piece timing chain cover.
The heads are back along with a few parts. Have to wait until I earn more money to buy the rest of the parts. I only charge what I can pay off at the end of each month, so waiting game is on.
I ground a 236/252 113 +4 @ 0.648" I 0.630" E using cammotion lobes. Very happy with it.
Now that I've spent some time researching camshafts and working with Steve, I have a few questions about your cam shaft if you don't mind:
Looks like you have 18° of overlap, How difficult was that to tune and drivability under 2000 rpms? What RPM did you end up with at idle? Did putting it at +4 make the lower rpm tuning nicer? What RPM does the power flatten out at?
10-25-2018, 09:51 PM
