Scott Tenold

Was want to know the ins and outs of adding E85. I have a 06 Z06 that is stock. Going to have the heads fixed and ported. Is there a kit to add e85 or can you just fill up and have a tune put in the car? I have herd you need upgrades to fuel pump and injectors. My car is weekend car that might see a drag strip a few times a year. Want increase in power and clean fuel. Thanks guys

Patriot Six

It’s not worth it unless you have a high compression max effort NA build or plan to run boost.

Unreal

DSX makes a sensor kit that is super easy to install. As for pump/injectors/etc that all depends on your power level. You may not need much, or you may need $2500+ in fuel system upgrades.

To me it is worth it even on a stock car as E85 is cheap, clean, and easy to get here. Plus helps with cooling and high octane is always good. Now if you are doing it just for power, then it may not be worth it.

jammeejamm

i have said this in other threads. bro, just the smell alone is worth the money.

BigVette427

For a practical, street driven car, I don't think the pros outweigh the cons. Can you make more power with it? Sure, but the tradeoff is a hit on your fuel mileage; (think big-block with a 4:11 rear end.) Plus, a Corvette that isn't a daily driver sitting in my garage with a full tank of E85 is not good. Apparently, E85 is also extremely sensitive to pre-ignition, which is a concern on DI motors, like the GenV LT motors. Unlike a true flex-fuel vehicles, I'm not sure you can just go back and forth between E85 and Premium 91/93 without having to switch between two separate tunes. Full disclosure, I despise the Corn Lobby and ethanol subsidies that force 10% ethanol into all of our gasoline, but to me unless I'd be driving a full-race build on the track, the trade-offs are just not worth it. Ethanol is just not the solution.

https://www.corvetteonline.com/tech-...-need-to-know/

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...-applications/

Unreal

Almost everything you just said is incorrect. E85 is EXTREMELY knock/preignition resistant. The corvette support flex fuel as soon as you turn it on in the tune, so you do not have to switch tunes. The gasmileage hit is ~25-30%, not big block 4:11 or even close, but cost of ethanol easily outweighs that. The downside is just filling up more often, like 210-220 miles a tank instead of 300, but I pay $1.80 a gallon vs $3 for premium 91, so actually comes out cheaper.

I've never met a single person that regrets swapping, EVER. Almost everyone agrees that swapping to flexfuel was hands down one of the best mods they have done. The people who seem to be against it always are people who have never used it, and don't seem to understand it.

BigVette427

Google E85 and pre-ignition, I didn't make it up. Don't worry, with E85 PI susceptibility is only a fraction of your worries.

https://fuelandfriction.com/weekend-...less-you-know/

1. Quote:

   It’s susceptible for pre-ignition – Due to its ethanol component, it’s more likely to ignite before the piston compresses and the spark plug does its job.
   All it takes is an impulse such as hot spots in the combustion chamber, a spark plug that runs too hot for the application, or carbonaceous deposits in the combustion chamber heated to incandescence by previous engine combustion events. This doesn’t sound like something all that bad, but it certainly is. Pre-ignition means that the fuel sprayed into the cylinder ignites before it should thus creating an unbalance in the engine internals and putting stress on components. This leads to engine knock where the combustion process doesn’t happen at the optimum time for a four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic “pinging” sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive as I can personally attest to.

As for the mileage, okay, maybe a 3:73 rear gear. Window sticker says 15/24 and with E85 you're down to like 10 around town and you'd be lucky to get the high teens on the highway. No thanks. And don't let that gas tank full of E85 sit for anything more than 30 days without some Stabil in it. I wouldn't buy a used car that was converted for E85, so buyer beware.

The C6 Corvette's E38 ECM has two octane tables,(high/low) but I don't believe you can just switch at the pump between E85 and Premium - it's one tune at a time. There is a big difference between 108 octane and 91 so why would you even want to run a tune for both?

Unreal

You are wrong. ECU supports flex fuel and will blend fuel and octane tables between the spark map and flex fuel maps.

Preignition is not an issue. No more than on gas. Yes it has a low preignition temp than normal gas, but if you have that issue, you are running the wrong plugs or a complete crap tune. This isn't something most people have to worry about. Don't make anything a glowplug in your head, and it is a non-issue. You can make the same argument that gas can preignite and take out a motor if you have a crap chamber, hot points, wrong plugs, and complete **** tune that allows stuff to get so hot that preignition becomes an issue.

Once again, someone who has never used it spreading bad info. Reminds me of antigun people that have no clue what they are talking about.

BigVette427

PI can certainly be an issue if you don't get your car set up correctly, which is all the more so an issue on the newer GenV motors with DI, (ex. LSPI.) As is the case with most tuners and their ability to actually tune, most tuners are probably not tuning for E85 correctly, so buyer beware.

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l-timing-wrong

To each their own, I'm just trying to point out that E85 doesn't come without some negatives. Me personally, I wouldn't use it just because of the bad taste left in my mouth that the Government gave me with the E10 mandates; the Big Corn lobby can shove the corn up their tailpipe. Throw in the lower energy content and it's subsequent less fuel mileage, on top of its corrosive tendencies, it's like a short-travel lifter for the street - if you're not running under a stopwatch (or on a dyno all the time,) can you really tell the difference?

BigVette427

So maybe I've learned a little more about how this works now. After you installed the flex-fuel kit, and tuned for E85, I thought you would then be confined to run E85 only, but apparently, that is not quite the case? Say you ran a 50/50 mix of E85 and Premium (100 octane or so, about E48) or worse yet, had the flex fuel kit and tables turned on in your tune for E85, but you primarily only ran premium 91 through it most of the time. The flex-fuel sensor handles that just fine and the motor otherwise never notices the difference?

That's one of the reasons I never saw the great appeal in E85, because I thought it would be silly to tune your car to be confined to E85 only. You still have to be careful about letting E85 sit in your tank more than a month or so at a time, but if you can run 91 on an E85 tune 90% of the time and your motor not otherwise know the difference, it might be interesting to have the ability to top off with a tank of E85 for a weekend drag race. I can buy the appeal in that.

Unreal

Yes, flex fuel sensor automatically adjust. It adjust fueling and timing for anything from 0 to 100%.

Texasthunder

Hence "flex" fuel sensor

BigVette427

It wasn't the flex sensor I was worried about, it was the tune.

minavizz

So after all the back and forth, did the OP decide on anything? lol.

MY HUMBLE OPINION is as follows:
I havent gone flex yet on my Z but I'd really love to. I bought the car already supercharged and running on 93/meth but IMO filling up the small meth tank is silly, I'd rather be flexfuel. Every bit of research here and from tuners will say the stock Z fuel pump "can" run E85 but WILL eventually fail. Could be a month could be 6 months but it wont hold up. Also E85 flows more/more is needed to flow to your engine so very likely you will need injectors (someone correct me if im wrong).

I had a WRX that was flex fuel and i loved it. I can attest that even with the little 4cyl with only 330whp that the tank empties much quicker than 93. I have tons of E85 stations by me but def needed them all bc i was filling up much more often. But that car was my dedicated daily so thats expected. I also have a bunch of friends with imports running flexfuel. BIG hp cars though. All the ones that have built their cars recently havent thought twice about flexfuel, and i wouldnt either if i re-did my Z, but these arent stock...theyre big boosted high hp cars.


So stock Z engine might not see too much power increase. With the cost of injectors and pump install the hp per dollar ratio definitely isnt good.
And I agree dont store your car long term with a tank full of E.

MikeOC

Do you equally hate the Petroleum Lobby and the tax breaks they get?

Hib Halverson

"Patriot Six" gets the "Beacon of Reality Award".

StealthFRC

It’s quite a bit of work out this way to use e85 as a primary fuel because of it’s availability but even with all the hassle I will never go back to just pump gas.

Innovate

Buddy of mine jumped 20rwhp on E with a Hi-Ram/AI/B3 setup from 93.

Racingswh

Just by adding the E85 or tuning for it?

If availability near me and the tracks I frequent was not a problem I would definitely use it. I just can't get past carrying two 55 gallon drums of it to the track with me.

Scott Tenold

From what I am hearing I think I am going to hold off on e85. Where I live in Oregon we don’t have a lot of good tuners in the area. I think there are upgrades that have to be made or not depending. So until we get so high performance tuning guys in the area I will be running good old 91 octane. Thanks for the debate!!