stingray454

Yeah, that was all before Chrysler became German, and when Lutz was there. Those days are gone.

I REALLY doubt they'll produce this concept.

magneticred

The ME4-12 is absolutely fantastic. I hope Chrysler builds it. I hope GM responds in kind. Let the race begin!!!

night feeder

:iagree:

aharte

With two new cars just being launched in this price bracket (SLR, Carrera GT), I don't see the point. The market for these things can't be very large.

Rocketblock

I still like the Caddy Cien as a candidate for the Blue Devil! :)

Jinx

Viper happened over a decade ago. And it happened when Chrysler had NO image car, when Chrysler was its own company, and with the help of a truck engine development program. Its recent redesign clearly took a lot of the concept punch out of the car in favor of cost-saving manufacturability.

Prowler and PT Cruiser are relatively cheap and use modest mechanicals.

Ditto Crossfire.

I discount Chrysler's concept design team when it comes to building a megabuck car with zero parts-bin potential. Especially when they've come right out and said they haven't even considered production.

The Bowtie Boys need to do their thing. This car is utterly irrelevent.

.Jinx


[Modified by Jinx, 12:18 PM 1/13/2004]

Zivnuska

There is some belief that this car has production potential. The following is from http://www.autoextremist.com


Chrysler followed up the wild, mechanical sculpture of last year's Tomahawk concept with a sensational take on a mid-engine super sports car called the ME Four-Twelve. Created under the personal direction of Dr. Wolfgang Bernhard, the Chrysler Group's CEO and one of the finest car guys in the business, the two-seat, mid-engine "super sports car" boasts an AMG-designed 5.9-liter, fuel-injected, three valves per cylinder V-12 with quad turbos and 9.0:1 compression ratio, developing 852HP at 6,250 RPM and 850 lb-ft of torque between 2,000 and 5,000 RPM. Wrapped in beautiful carbon fiber body work designed under the direction of Trevor Creed and his team at Chrysler Design (Brian Nielander - exterior, Mark Walters - interior), the ME Four-Twelve is flat-out sensational in person. Not only that, the ME Four-Twelve has been planned for production reality from the start, and it is undergoing safety tests and certification procedures as we speak. Dr. Bernhard has promised journalists that they will be able to drive a pre-production prototype as early as next summer. The ME Four-Twelve is projected to go 0 - 60MPH in 2.9 seconds, 0 - 100 in 6.2 seconds, the 1/4-mile in 10.6 seconds at 142MPH and with a top speed estimated at 248MPH. It's a serious car from a serious bunch of rabid car guys, and we expect it will get built with a limited production run as a 2006 model.

VetterMan

Your completely clueless on the Viper SRT-10 so stop the :spam !

Cost-saving manufacturability ... look no further than GM for that ... even with the new C6 it's apparent ... which is do, at least in part, because of the sub $50K entry point. Maybe the C6 'Z07' or SuperVette will not suffer at the same hand of compromise.

Jinx

Excuse me? What planet are you from? Viper's styling has come under much harsher (and more justly deserved) criticism than C6. It doesn't take years of study to see the cost reduction in the car's styling. And yet it's still not a vice-free car. I think Viper fans got a raw deal.

Does the new Viper have a clamshell hood or not? The hood defined the car. It was outre inside and out. Now it's an oversized Honda S2000. If I had a nickel for every time I heard that specific comment at the Dodge booth on Saturday (in just a few lingering minutes! and twice as much as the Ferrari-headlights comment C6 got) I could have gotten another waffle cone.

.Jinx

stingray454

Spare us your 'holier than thou' bull$ h it. Look under your $80k Dodge hood and you'll find a pushrod truck engine and a whole bunch of corporate bin parts throughout the car.

If corporate parts bin cost savings bothers you, then you should have bought a Ferrari or a Porsche. That's part of what that $100k+ admission price buys you: door handles and window switches that aren't shared with any other car.. :rolleyes:


[Modified by stingray454, 6:38 PM 1/13/2004]

VetterMan

Whoa there stinggay454 ... Don't let my stating of the facts bother you so. And keep in mind that I'm a certified Corvette enthusiast myself having owned 1/2 dozen Vettes in the last 5 years alone not even counting the current '02 Z06 that's parked in my garage. Doubt you can say the same. Sure can't wait for the C6 'Z06' hope it's something truly special without any of cheese. :blueangel:

Now to business. It's obvious you're a misguided closet Viper SRT-10 fan. So let's help you out some. So what does the GEN3 Viper use from Dodge's parts bin. Hmmm, could it be its torque monstrous 8.3 litre 10 cyl engine with 501 hp that moves the car from a standstill to 100mph in a blistering 8.4 seconds? Nope. Well then, could it be the humongous 14" rotor and Brembo brake package that stop the SRT-10 from 60mph in a record beating 97 short feet? Nope. Okay then, how about its independent coil-over supension with 12" front and 13" rear Michelin meats that provide for an unmatched 1.10 skidpath g's and an excess of 70mhp in the slalom? Nope. And I could go on, but you should get the picture if you a brain and understand that the current Viper shares relatively little from the bin and nothing of significant merit that makes it the stand out preformer that it is. Maybe next time you should think before you type, you'll be a better person for it and save yourself the shame. :smash:

Cheers.
:cheers:

PS: Oh, and your comment about the $100K (magical) admission price saving you from the corporate parts bin is too funny. Like the Porsche boxster doesn't steal from the 911 whether in actual or likeness. Do check your information before spouting next time. So so funny.:lolg:

Zivnuska

Additional commentary from the Autoextremist:
http://www.autoextremist.com

And finally, we received several emails expressing negative comments, even outrage, at the Chrysler Group, for having the temerity to even show the ME Four-Twelve, and at me for, picking it as our AE Best in the Detroit Show. The gist of most of the emails is that Chrysler had "no business" building the car, that it "wasn't relevant," that it was a "waste of time" and that Mercedes was showing the SLR already, so why bother, etc. I love the "relevant" comment. Since when is there an edict that manufacturer's should only build concepts that will be produced? If that attitude were freely embraced, I can assure you that going to these major auto shows would be an exercise in boredom. And besides, there are serious plans in place for producing the ME Four-Twelve as we speak.

One reader even said that the ME Four-Twelve was "out of context" - that Chrysler had no background in supercars, so therefore they had no business showing one.

Well, that's flat-out bullpoopie.

What I'm reading into these comments is that there is a group out there who takes a dim view of the Chrysler Group because of their German parent company. These people are entitled to their opinions, but to somehow turn that around to say that DaimlerChrysler in Auburn Hills has no business building a "blue sky" super sports car is just plain silly - and wrong.

It's funny, but I never heard such hue and cry or mutterings about "context" when DC unveiled the Tomahawk at last year's NAIAS or when GM unveiled the Cien. The ME Four-Twelve is a significant car for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it was done in-house. Yes, the engine is an AMG engine, but don't forget that Wolfgang Bernhard, the COO of DaimlerChrysler, ran AMG before he came to Auburn Hills. As a matter of fact, he personally supervised the development of the current M-B SL55 as his last project for AMG. As for the rest of the car, we're talking Auburn Hills here, folks - and that's important. Why? The ME Four-Twelve is a "statement" car in the purest sense, and what it says is that the technical, engineering and design people in Auburn Hills are a living, breathing, talented, formidable creative force of their own - not a group that takes their marching orders from Stuttgart. And they're capable of going against any other automobile company in the world.

But unfortunately, the naysayers seem to conveniently forget that fact. Yes, the Chrysler Group shares certain bits and pieces on some of their production cars with the company's other divisions (just like every other automobile manufacturing conglomerate in the world), but Auburn Hills is a car company unto themselves - and Wolfgang Bernhard, Dieter Zetsche, Trevor Creed, et al are enthusiasts of the first order - people who not only care about what they're doing, but who eat, sleep and breathe the car business 24/7.

As for suggesting that the ME Four-Twelve is somehow the "answer to the question that no one is asking" (our patented AE catch-phrase), we here at AE totally disagree with that assessment. The ME Four-Twelve answers a lot of questions - not the least of which are the negative ones being bandied about by some in the establishment automotive media that suggest that Auburn Hills is going to fold up their tent and fade into the woodwork. I can assure you that is not going to happen. The ME Four-Twelve has the potential to be the most super sports car of them all, and if you don't think that the folks in Auburn Hills are serious about it, or that they somehow aren't capable of delivering on that potential, well, all I have to say is that you're sadly mistaken.

The "car guys" in Auburn Hills have every right to be very proud of the ME Four-Twelve, as well as of their other concepts they unveiled in Detroit.

And one more thing - the moment a car company loses interest in exploring the limits, in asking "what if," in challenging the status quo, then that is the exact moment that car company ceases to be a viable player in this business.

stingray454

I have no problem driving a car that shares some parts with other GM products. My beef with you is that you implied that your Viper was a much better car than the C6 because it didn't share parts with other DCX cars like the C6 does with other GM products, and that the Viper wasn't constrained by budgets like the C6 was. That's all B.S. my friend, and you know it.

The Viper was designed and redesigned with the same kind of budget constraints that the C5 and C6 were, and thus, it too has its fair share of 'compromises'. Doesn't make them (Viper, C5, C6) bad cars, but it does make them less than perfect. But considering their price points, they're practically unbeatable.

Look, I love the Viper, as I love Corvettes. Although I honestly like the styling of the previous gen Viper better than the new one. But when a Viper owner comes here and starts trashing the C5 and C6 like its a low-buck POS, like you just did, I have to step up to the plate and say something.

As the Viper has gotten considerably more expensive over the years, I've found more and more Viper owners trying to justify the $80k they spent by trashing the 'Vette. And I don't stand for that.


I hope those 6 Corvettes in 5 years weren't all new, as that's some pretty **** poor financial decisions you've made. I choose to keep my cars longer, much longer than you. So don't try to pull Corvette rank on me. I've owned Corvettes for 10 years. The fact that I've only owned 2 Corvettes in those 10 years doesn't make me any less of an enthusiast than you.

BTW, do you have any idea how much of a Viper advertisement your post sounded like? You can't be for real with that. You work for Dodge or something? :confused: Too funny...

2fast2strong

No disrespect but you are clueless. The Viper's new design had nothing to do with cost reduction. The Germans scaled it down on purpose so it would appeal more to the group of people who could afford it, price is still above 80K. Everybody knows this.

VetterMan

Stinggay454 ... I sure hope you snap out of your apparent delirium sooner rather than later. :sleep:

stingray454

Is this your retort? Well, I guess that's the end of this conversation... :seeya

NEXT!!! :jester ;)

BLU-BY-U

vetterman, if you want to wave the clown shoe banner, and dog the C6 in the process, expect some lumps along the way when you're posting on a website called corvette forum.

You'd probably be better served by taking your efforts over to a viper board or something, unless you're just a glutten for punishment. :D

VetterMan

BLU-BY-U... Listen, no Viper banner waving here but hey your always welcome to draw your own conclusions however misguided they may be. ;) Be that as it may, Im quite a fan of the Corvette (duh, in case you haven't noticed). Infact, I've already got my name on a C6 'Z06' and if the stats don't cut it I'll most likely move to a 'SuperVette' if produced. And you? Just couldn't stand for misinformation or the rose colored classes is all. I'm sure you understand. Cheers and save the wave. I think it's time to move on now. :cool:

painrace2

I have owned and raced many Corvettes and other cars. My wife has a 03 Ann. and I have a 03 Z06 plus a STS. I would like to have a "Blue Devel". However, I have already written Wolfgang to tell him I have a lot of interest in the ME412! Yes, I am old and $$ are not a big deal. Performance is what I am looking for in an American made car!