Zivnuska

I'm probably totally off base here but:

We know from ACAR that Hill has used the technique of being willing to pay $X.XX/lb extra to suppliers if they can reduce weight.

We know that there will be significant use of carbon fiber in the Z06.

We know the weight is 3130 lbs (50 lbs less than base).

We know the tires, brakes,and wheels will weigh more than base, and that the Al frame, Magnesium roof weigh less.

Problem: If the final Z06 weight has only cut 50 lbs, the weight savings from carbon fiber cannot be great enough to justify a huge price increase. I don't believe Hill will repeat the 04 Z06 carbon fiber hood escapade where it cost $5k to save 10 lbs.

Therefore: Either the car is lighter than 3130 or there is a new, lower cost, way to fabricate and use carbon fiber in the car. It shouldn't cost huge $$ to get to 3130 if there is an Al hydroformed frame. I can't see Hill raising the price to $75k without a terrific payback for each expensive innovation.

Am I wrong here?


Phil Zivnuska

Alex1217

The C6 Z06 does sound expensive if you look at the parts being used but hopefully, they designed ways of making the CF parts without it adding too much to the cost. Guess we'll find out on Jan. 15th.

68roadster

There is some guy who occasionally posts that he knows something about making carbon fiber panels and it shouldn't be cost prohibitive. I was hoping he would chime in on this or the other thread about c.f. experts.

I am sure that D. Hill will not use c.f. panels if they do not pass a cost benefit analysis. Maybe a watered down cheaper version. Yeah, I know Z16 hood, but they wanted a higher price on that car because it was a C.E. (maybe also to test the market for the C6 ).

stingray454

3130 lbs. sounds about exactly right to me. I'm not surprised at that weight at all, and I think its a very good weight for the car to have, and will still be one of the lightest sports cars within its power range out there.

Those who were thinking 2900 lbs. were dreaming. I knew that wasn't going to happen. Aluminum frames don't save that much weight because of the additional material needed to get the same strength as a steel frame.

When you consider how much they added to the car's weight, such as 6 piston/4 piston calipers, larger wheels, larger tires, dry sump oil system, full glass hatchback rear, oil and diff coolers, larger radiator, etc., it probably added about 150 lbs. to the car over a base C6. They then had to shave that hardware weight out of the car by going with the aluminum frame, cf, magnesium, etc.

My point is the fact they were able to keep the weight about the same as the C5 Z06, while adding substantial amounts of new hardware is a tremendous accomplishment. To expect the car to actually go down in weight by 100-200 lbs. while adding all that hardware was an unrealistic expectation.

bernrex

What does a Vette's A/C unit weigh? If the compressor, etc add lets say 90-100 lbs ... I might be tempted to remove it and get mine down closer to 3000lbs.

What other ideas do CF'ers have for weight reduction on the new car?

strato1958

What this car is not fast enough! Please folks, how many here can actually really drive a 500 hp car at its limit?? This is all bragging rights...dont we know this yet?

LTC Z06

Reducing the weight of the car you take to the track isn't just so you can be faster, it saves on tires and brakes, and the car handles better.

Timmy's C5

Stingray has it all neatly summed up. You can't continue to add content and expect the weight to go down.

Jinx

The aluminum/magnesium frame and carbon-fiber body may have as much to do with protecting the competitiveness of the racing program as it does with building the best possible Z06. Recall that C5R started off with a narrower body and stock frame rails, more like C5 than what it eventually became. Rulemakers want to keep racing interesting, so cars that win consistently will be held to ever-stricter standards. The exotic bits on Z06 certainly don't hurt its rep, either. There's also the role Corvettes play as pilot programs for new technology. Refining design and manufacturability of weight-loss technologies on a car that's predisposed to justifying higher cost for such things makes sense.

Point is, the makeup of Z06 is not pure engineering and performance cost/benefit; there are external factors that influenced what we're getting.

And the price of Z16 had more to do with what GM thought they could get than with what the parts cost.

.Jinx

bernrex

Strato ... you're missing the point. GM realizes all the benefits obtained from weight reduction. They were making every effort to break under the 1.5 ton level. But, its hard when people want all the luxury items and creature comforts of a sports sedan.

The Z car will not be my daily driver. Its for special occasions, nice weather days, car shows, and the track. Weight reduction is a big deal to me. It saves my having to go on a diet to get the track advantage needed.

strato1958

I understand your point...but for myself its more than enough car and I like the a/c for hot days.
Im not looking for an all out racer but an ultra fast street car. I once owned a zr1 and never used that to its peak...now this is 125 hp more and lighter and handles better....its more car than I need.....but i still want one!

WWK888

The price debate is all speculation at this point with many assumptions being made. My understanding is the car will be unveiled January 15 but the price wont be finalized until later in the year.

I guess if you like to have spirited debates, go at it, but you are all just spinning your wheels...

rockettc

There was someone on a forum who said he has done this professionally to several corvettes for racing taking out radio, ac and maybe some other stuff and said that it reduced the weight only forty pounds.

strato1958

Hell without the a/c in the summer I might loose 40 lbs!

mikeivan

If this change did not save huge amounts of weight, why bother? This is a BIG engineering effort, I thought it would save many pounds. Anybody know the facts? Steel frame weight vs. aluminum frame weight? I am thinking maybe 3130 lbs is not the correct number, probably wishful thinking I know.

ivan111

My guess is that a C6 Z06 with a steel frame would have been probably 90-100 pounds heavier......

I also hope the 3,130 is not official.....

Tom Steele

TTRotary

I agree with Phil too. But I am not going to get all worked up over price and content because we are basing all this on an article whose accuracy is not even confirmed. Corvette Magazine has NO IDEA what specs the next Z06 will have and neither does anyone else except GM.

If you consider the facts presented carefully, you see a lot of contradictory info.

500Hp at 6200 rpm even tho redline is 7K and they use Ti connecting rods? 475 TQ from 7.0L, occurring at 4800 RPM? Come on. Fact is, a 7.0L 2V engine with a 7K rpm redline would develop 600 HP, not 500. That engine would be the C5R engine.

Mag roof panel for rigidity and it is fixed? First, All roof panels since 1997 have had Mag frames. Second, if they wanted torsional rigidity, why the single mounting point in the center? Makes no sense, and the C5 Zo6 roof is not made like that. The chassis in the pic is a C6 coupe chassis with a removable roof panel and a center mounting point, just like they have done since 1997. Either the Z06 has a removable panel, meaning it is a Coupe, really, or it does not an it will not look like the pic.

Finally, the weight. CF panels, AL frame, and they only save 50lb? Makes no sense from an engineering standpoint, and it makes no sense $$$ wise for GM when there are so much simpler ways to accomplish it - as they figured out on the C5 FRC/Z06. The 03 Z saved over 100lb compared to the Coupe without any exotic materials, meaning it could be produced as cheap as the coupe, keeping the price point down. Why would GM abandon that very successful strategy here?

Finally the homologation issue...FIA requirements are 200 cars - an objective GM can meet with the Blue Devil street car. What does a C6R need? CF panels, AL frame (which BTW is not just slapping some AL rails on, but a completely re-engineered chassis), and a 7.0L engine with light internals. All that GM can provide in a streetable blue devil which goes out the door for, say, 100K to "select" customers via the old RPO strategy.

So the article, to me, mixes up two cars: a "normal" Z06 that is attractively priced, very fast and very hot looking, but which does not deviate technically from the base car (the ace in the hole being the 7.0L motor), and the no holds barred blue devil, produced in limited quantities.

So before we get all excited, lets wait for the official info. I am sure of 2 things: 500/500 7.0L motor and 275, 325 runflat GY F1 SC tires, because I have seen them in person (the tires, not the motor!!). The rest is still a mystery.

Boomer 2

I agree, it takes a "world class" driver pushing a 500 HP car around a track in order to benefit from a 50-100 LB. weight difference in the car.
Unless you are able to push the car to its extreme limits, that much weight difference will not be a factor. So to 99.8 percent of the people who will own this car, 100lbs. is not an issue.

Jinx

Except GM and everybody who went to the long-lead press review of the car, which has already happened.

I wonder if Corvette Magazine got to send anyone. Hmm.

Because the C5R engine is the only 7.0L powerplant GM has ever or will ever build. No, they'd never build a motor suitable for street use with different characteristics. Inconceivable.

Because they'd never take the coupe roof and bolt it in place for rigidity. Inconceivable.

Because the heavy-duty hardware -- huge tires and wheels, massive brakes, big dry-sump motor -- couldn't possibly add an ounce.

No reason at all. Greater performance envelope? Poppycock. C5 Z06 braking and traction couldn't possibly be improved upon, never mind power.

Methinks the article is not the thing that's mixed up here. But we'll know soon enough.

.Jinx