both would be installed on a fully built 427 block and the same supporting mods. whats the pros and cons of each which route would you go any why?

 

What is your budget? What are your HP goals?

What do you mean by fully built? Like fully built meaning forged internals with stock block and heads or fully forged with aftermarket block and aftermarket heads?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=2010884

I went with the procharger because I felt it would be a better fit for me. I also don't like how badly the car has to be hacked up to install a turbo kit. In addition, the turbos that come with the TT kits do not flow enough CFM to meet my HP/RPM requirements meaning bigger turbos would be needed. This would have likely resulted in lots of turbo lag down low followed by a boost hit that would be just about impossible to control. I felt that for me, the procharger F1C would be a better for my 7500+ RPM All Pro headed warhawk motor.

 

its gonna be a texas speed built 427 with the callies dragon slayer crank, forged pistons, and rods, probably stock ls7 heads worked, fuel system upgrade, cam, ported tb and intake man, meth inj etc etc

 

I'd go with a procharger, but obviously I'm biased because that's what I used. Some shops have made over 900 rwhp with a build like you mentioned and an F1C, but I wouldn't run the stock block and heads at that much power if it was mine.

 

i was going to go the warhawk block and heads route but who am i trying to kid even at 800-1000 hp i will never have traction any way.
what are the stock blocks good for? some people say 1200-1500 hp? if my goals are 800-1000 i should be safe its never going to the drag strip mainly highway rolls if anything at all.

 

What are the stock blocks good for is the million dollar question that I have been trying to find the answer to for weeks. You will get a ton of varying info depending on how you ask.

Those stock blocks that are producing the 1200+ numbers are probably modded stock blocks. They are resleeved super thick and they have extra head stud bosses welded on them to allow the use of aftermarket 6 bolt heads.

Your goals of 800-1000 is a pretty wide range, dude. Are you thinking more like 800 or more like 1000? For 800 rwhp max I would probably consider the stock stuff, but not 1000.

Some engine builders have told me that the LS7 block and stock heads aren't that well suited for a lot of boost while other have said that they are fine with a good set of head studs alone. I decided to go with the warhawk block and All Pro heads even though I will be running a lower boost tune most of the time. The warhawk motor and those heads will add about 15k to your build before it's over with.

These are only my opinions based on the info I have spent months collecting, for what they are worth. Hope it helps.

 

The really nice thing about a turbo car is the adjustable power curve and belt slip is never a concern. A supercharger will make x amount of boost vs rpm, and if it's pullied for 900 or 1000rwhp, you can not turn it down or adjust power delivery except with your right foot.

With a turbo car you can cruise around with 600-700rwhp and at the touch of a button instantly be at 1000+rwhp (given the proper fuel octane). Traction problems? With proper setup/programming of the boost controller you can bring the power in smoother to get traction, and run varying amounts of boost per gear.

 

I think that's a pretty good guess.

His car had like 920 rwtq at about 4600 rpm or so. I think stout is an understatement.

I am not sure that we will even reach his torque numbers with my car, but I guess we'll know in a few weeks.

 

I'd say go with the Twin Turbo setup. When you look at the issues that come with a super charger, I think you'll be much happier. Though I'm going to be biased towards the APS like Jorday is towards the F1C.

Some of the main problems I had going with the F1C is overall sound the blower makes on the car. The whistle is so loud even at idle, that it sounds like there is something wrong with the car. Do a search for F1 cars on Youtube or streetfire.net and listen to them. They are flat out loud. Some people like that, I personally wanted something that was a little more stealth.

The other issue I had with the F1C is the potential for belt slip, which can only really be solved by upgrading to a 8 rib+ pulley. In addition to the fact you can't simply turn your boost down inside your car. If you want 1000rwhp car, you have to drive around at 1000rwhp. I'll be able to tune my down to mid 700's for everyday driving and turn it up when needed.

Also the F1C is more of a tuner kit then the APS kit is. You have to get your own custom fuel system etc.. where the APS kit comes with everything. When I priced out going with both options in the end the cost of both kits were nearly identical after you calculate the 8 rib pulley upgrade, Long Tube Headers, Exhaust, fuel system, F1C kit itself, Oil cooler, and all the other little things the kit needs.

Then look at the overall power curves and how much boost is going to be needed to make 1000rwhp. It's going to take 4# + more boost on the F1c to achieve the same power as the APS. I feel much safer running the smallest boost possible to obtain your goals.

That's my .02 cents on it.

Jason

 

You must know exactly what's going in my car

My boost controller will allow me to do boost based off each gear, so I can maximze traction for the street and at the track.

 

Which ABC are you using? I haven't really heard many reports of people doing this successfully on our platform. I'd like to hear some success stories though as this is definitely something that could help many folks out.

To answer the OP's question .. Turbos are better at everything. You'd need the GT35 upgrade though on the APS kit to fairly compare it to an F1C.

 

Spot on post, man. I agree with all.

F1C is loud for sure.

And I ordered the 8 rib setup to prevent belt slip which was a major concern.

Also, you are dead on about the F1C being more of a tuner kit. I can't even count how many hours I've spent on my phone with various places trying to decide which parts to use when I put this thing together. In fact, the F1 kits for the C6Z are only being sold as tuner kits right now.

You're right about the cost, too. In the end, this project ended up costing me a little over 3 times what I wanted to spend initially.
That sounds like a pretty trick setup, man.

 

is there a special mounting bracket for the f1c so the blower doesnt hit the hood liner and whose 8 rib setup are you using?

 

I'm honestly not sure which one IPSmotorsports is putting in. I'll have to ask and get back to you.

The TT kit for the C6 Z06 comes with GT35's already.

 

At first my plan was to do the F1C as you are doing. I did all my research and started to get price quotes on everything and before I knew it I was so close to the APS kit, I just decided to go that route.

Your setup is going to be pretty bad *** itself. I can't wait to see some results when it's all wrapped up. You'll be in the same boat as me with limited power though. I guess the stock computer can only handle 1050rwhp. I have plans to replace the stock computer this winter and probably change out the transmission to something even stronger. I'd really like to see 1500rwhp to really utilize the LSX block with ETP 6 bolt heads.

 

That's kind of a gross over generalization, don't you think? Better at EVERYTHING? If that were true it would seem that ATI, Eaton and Paxton would all be pretty much out of the job...

How about minimizing added weight? Or ease of installation for the DIY dude? You think TT is better than supercharged at those thinks?

The TT kits are great products, but to say that they are better at everything...I'd have to disagree.
Doesn't hit the hood liner from what I've been told. If it does EPP can make a custom bracket or I can draw one up and get my buddy to machine the part for me.

The 8 rib setup is from ATI.

Heck, when my project started, it was supposed to be a D1SC on the stock motor, and that was going to be the end of it. I thought, wow, these guys with 40k motors are nuts, and then I ended up spending the same thing, lol.

Thanks, man. I'm excited for both of our cars to be done.

The stock computer limitation will be an interesting deal. My new Z is an 08, and as I understand it the 08 PCM is able to translate MAF frequencies far, far beyond what any 07 or older PCM could. It was probably done in preparation for the release of the LS9, but it could mean good news for guys like me trying to tune big HP 08 vehicles.

Also, I am already making the preemptive strike against the stock PCM fueling limitations. My Beck sheet metal intake is being setup the use of 16 fuel injectors, with 8 being controlled by the PCM and 8 being controlled by a separate fuel injector system computer that only turns on under boost. I have decided to do the following...in this order.

Plan A: Fuel the car with eight 96 lb/hr injectors...if that doesn't work

Plan B: Fuel the car with eight 120 lb/hr injectors...if that doesn't work

Plan C: Fuel the car with 16 injectors size TBD.

Another option that I have seen done before on TT cars is to run eight injectors in the usual locations and then two more large injectors mounted near the TB which basically spray fuel into the incoming air to add some fuel there before it enters the runner. I've seen this work to perfection on TT C4 corvettes.


What transmission are you considering? A 4L80E in these cars would be pretty awesome, and I think it could be made to work.

 

The F1C is very loud at idle, however I love the sound. Mine does rub the hoodliner, but does not cause any issues. As far as being a tuners kit, not any more than any other SC.

The top ten fastest cars on in the LS1Tech FI section are turbo's and there are only three supercharged cars in the top 25, if that helps your decision any. However, everyone of those cars have custom fabricated systems.

 

how much power did your setup make, can you tell us a little about your build what other mods and how streetable it is

 

I made 600whp on a stock ls2. Should have my car back next week with the 427, 9:1 pistons, blower cam and 243 heads. I am guessing 675-700whp on this set up with 10# boost. Over the fall, I am planning to upgrade to an 9.5:1 All Pro or ET LS7 top end and bump the boost to 15-18#'s, which should produce 950whp give or take.

When I built my system, there was a lot going on in the LS world and I held out about as long as I could to see where the industry was heading, e.g., the LSX, and Warhawk blocks were still in development, the APS Z06 kit had not been released, ET Performance and All Pro had just released their LS7 series heads, but no one had made big power on them yet, so I picked the ProCharger since I could go in stages with available / proven components.

I wish that I could have done everything at once (or before I got engaged ), but this is a $35K build and I had to choose a system that I could do in stages. Stage 1 $12K (headers, F1C kit and stage IV rear), Stage 2 $12K (complete forged 427 short block, clutch and the 8-rib damper). The final stage should be another $10-12K as well (heads, intake, rockers, fuel system, remainder of the 8-rib kit). Maybe more depending how carried away I get with heads, but that is where the power is made.

 

John, when I combine stages 1 through 3, that project starts sounding very familiar...