Methanol Injection. M1 vs. M3 vs. M5! Which one is right for me and why?
02-06-2009, 05:46 PM
#21
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Yes, I understand VP offers different formulas of methanol with different additive packages. My point was those additive packages are tailored to the needs of engines running on 100% methanol, not our typical application of injecting 5-10% volume during the time we spend at 4-20lbs of boost.
Not necessarily, by that thought, all fuel is fuel, right?
I like M3, Hell, in a pinch, washer fluid works which is what, 80% meth as long as you get the right fluid?
But yes, in most cases, we are relying on the cooling of the meth. In some cases, we are spraying 10-15% of total fueling, if not more, worth of meth, so its a bit 2 fold, and really depends on the application.
I like M3, Hell, in a pinch, washer fluid works which is what, 80% meth as long as you get the right fluid?
But yes, in most cases, we are relying on the cooling of the meth. In some cases, we are spraying 10-15% of total fueling, if not more, worth of meth, so its a bit 2 fold, and really depends on the application.
02-07-2009, 07:57 PM
#23
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M3 best results on the dyno, many tests have been shown on C.F. with 100% M3 being the winner... if it's not obvious M3 is my choice...
M3 is also Taylor's first choice at the moment, and he knows a thing or 1000 about methanol...
and the L.G. Motorsports Z06 that was at the mile last year had some very NICE results running M3, with Louis at the computer, and Lou at the wheel...
M3 is also Taylor's first choice at the moment, and he knows a thing or 1000 about methanol...and the L.G. Motorsports Z06 that was at the mile last year had some very NICE results running M3, with Louis at the computer, and Lou at the wheel...
02-13-2009, 12:12 AM
#24
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Call me dumb if you want but why do you guys call it M1, M3, M5 etc? I have been running methanol on my Eclipse GSX for about 3 years, previously I ran it on a Evo but I never called it M1, M3 or M5.
I go to a local shop(Don hot rod in Tucson) and purchase 100% methanol for $2.40(before it jumped to abour $4.50 last year). I also use 100% denatured alcohol (purchase a 5 galon drum from ace hardware)and ocasionally I pour some destilled water.
The only time I change the flow is by switching the nozzle other than that my progressive system injects more methanol as I get more boost. Am I missing something here?
my .2c
I go to a local shop(Don hot rod in Tucson) and purchase 100% methanol for $2.40(before it jumped to abour $4.50 last year). I also use 100% denatured alcohol (purchase a 5 galon drum from ace hardware)and ocasionally I pour some destilled water.
The only time I change the flow is by switching the nozzle other than that my progressive system injects more methanol as I get more boost. Am I missing something here?
my .2c
02-13-2009, 02:26 AM
#25
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evo8,
Yes, clearly you're missing something.
Try reading the thread from start to finish.
I have listed several links to VP Racing fuel's website.
M1, M3, and M5 are all different fuels from VP Racing with the main ingredient being Methanol - but THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT.
Also, denatured alcohol is completely different than Methanol from a tuning perspective. Your tune will be way off if you're tuned for meth injection and start running denatured alcohol and/or water.
Denatured alcohol has a completely different stoichiometric target than methanol, as does the meth/water combo!
Yes, clearly you're missing something.
Try reading the thread from start to finish.
I have listed several links to VP Racing fuel's website.
M1, M3, and M5 are all different fuels from VP Racing with the main ingredient being Methanol - but THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT.
Also, denatured alcohol is completely different than Methanol from a tuning perspective. Your tune will be way off if you're tuned for meth injection and start running denatured alcohol and/or water.
Denatured alcohol has a completely different stoichiometric target than methanol, as does the meth/water combo!
02-13-2009, 11:37 AM
#26
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St. Jude Donor '14
Ed,
I am still undecided about staying with M1 or trying M3 or M5. For my use of injecting thru two nozzles, which one will help me better against detonation on my 11:1 CR? I need to buy 5 gal tomorrow.
Thanks
I am still undecided about staying with M1 or trying M3 or M5. For my use of injecting thru two nozzles, which one will help me better against detonation on my 11:1 CR? I need to buy 5 gal tomorrow.
Thanks
02-13-2009, 11:49 AM
#27
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Felix,
That seems to be the big debate. I've had great results with both M1 and M3. I've heard (from folks who have tried it) M5 is superior - but I've read that it is inferior. I have no idea.
I suspect that with as little as we're injecting into our engines, it probably doesn't much matter.
That seems to be the big debate. I've had great results with both M1 and M3. I've heard (from folks who have tried it) M5 is superior - but I've read that it is inferior. I have no idea.
I suspect that with as little as we're injecting into our engines, it probably doesn't much matter.
02-13-2009, 12:47 PM
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St. Jude Donor '14
That's an excellent point since the VP site says that M5 works the best against detonation, so if it lowers the temp. like M1 I would think M5 is really the best one.
02-13-2009, 02:58 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Your IAT sensor is after the meth is injected? Where is your IAT sensor located at in your setup and how far from the Meth nozzle? The only reason I am hesitant to see the M5 work better is that yes the nitroparaffin additive will create more power than straight meth. BUT I dont see that we are injecting enough meth to appreciably increase the octane rating inside the combustion chamber. Even VP them self recommend M1 our application for the sole reason that the extra additives in M3 and M5 reduce the cooling effect of Meth and so little is being injected that will not increase our octane rating so our real only benefit is the cooling affect.
The Additives they add to M3 and M5 help increase burning speed which if my mind serves me correctly is what we are trying to slow down by increasing the octane.
02-13-2009, 03:03 PM
#34
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Regarding methanol, how long does it stay in good condition in the w.w reservoir or on-board tank? I have heard it degrades fairly quickly. Do any of these methanols blends (M1-M5) have stabizers or preservatives for longevity? Has anyone used a fuel stabilizer additive like Sta-bil or something else to promote longevity?
02-13-2009, 03:18 PM
#36
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Adam,
The IAT sensor needs to be located at a minimum of 2.5 inches from the Meth injection nozzle.
Your statement is a bit general, but I agree with it, generally. 
Meth will suck up moisture - but unless your car is sitting outside in a rain storm, I wouldn't worry about the meth in your W/W reservoir going bad. However, it evaporates very quickly.
The IAT sensor needs to be located at a minimum of 2.5 inches from the Meth injection nozzle.
The Additives they add to M3 and M5 help increase burning speed which if my mind serves me correctly is what we are trying to slow down by increasing the octane.
Meth will suck up moisture - but unless your car is sitting outside in a rain storm, I wouldn't worry about the meth in your W/W reservoir going bad. However, it evaporates very quickly.
02-13-2009, 06:34 PM
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07-27-2020, 05:20 PM
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Has anybody tried switching from a m1 injection to a m5??
I have found the following on VP's site. Pay particular attention to the last Q/A:
QUESTIONS SPECIFIC TO M5
Q. Does M5 contain Nitromethane?
A. M5 contains nitroparaffins, which are relatives of nitromethane in the same chemical family.
Q. Are there any applications where M5 isn't appropriate?
A. So far M5 has worked in every application I have tried it in. From a single cylinder Briggs JR dragster to a Brad Anderson blown hemi. If you're adamant about running methanol, there is no reason you shouldn't run M5. It's more consistent, you'll use less, and it makes gobs of Hp.
Q. What jetting changes does M5 require?
A. This fuel seems to be very friendly in jetting. Steve Petty dynoed a 1000 rear wheel Hp vehicle and increased the jetting 15% and the car made 1080 to the tire. He reduced the jetting to 7% and the car went 1079 to the tire. This is an 8% tuning window. I recommend you jet up 10 to 12% to start and then you can back down from there. Al Brown (Antron's father) did a back to back test with M5 vs. M1. His combination is a 540 ci injected big block Chevy running Top Dragster. With no difference in jetting, the car picked up .11 seconds and 6 mph. Again, every combination is different and you'll need to run the tests to determine what your combination likes.
Q. What timing changes does M5 require?
A. As with Q16, so far I have left the timing alone. Run what timing you had with regular methanol. Here's my thought. The hydrocarbons in the fuel help vaporization, so you SHOULD be able to retard the timing a bit. But the fuel also contains nitroparrifins, which generally need the timing advanced to start the burn earlier. Since they are both in the fuel, they almost seem to cancel each other out, hence the timing will stay the same. Weird huh?
Q. Do you need to use an upper lube with M5?
A. No, M5 already has enough upper lube in it. While VP's M2 is excellent for use for straight methanol, I don't recommend adding it to M5. I have seen injection nozzles clog up because of the extra lube.
Q. If I'm using regular methanol now, should I try M3 or M5?
A. Unless you've already tried M3 with success (and M3 works great in many applications), I'd go right from regular methanol to M5. The range of applications that can benefit from M3 is slightly more limited than M5, while M5 will pick up virtually any application you put it in.
Q. Why does M5 work so much better than straight methanol?
A. In two words, BETTER VAPORIZATION. Regular methanol doesn't like to vaporize in the combustion chamber. It likes to stay in liquid form. In the combustion chamber on the combustion stroke, the engine needs to burn 2 things, fuel vapor and oxygen. If the fuel doesn't vaporize well, then you will have wasted fuel going out the exhaust. The hydrocarbons and nitroparrifins in M5 help to vaporize the fuel more efficiently. This way there's more fuel vapor in the combustion chamber and in turn the engine will make more power.
Q. How long can I leave M5 in my fuel cell between uses?
A.I recommend the same as Q16. If the car is going to sit for a week or so, drain it out and put it back in the drum. Also, the fuel will not separate.
QUESTIONS RE: METHANOL IN GENERAL
Q. Can M3 or M5 be used with a methanol injection kit?
A. I'd use regular methanol like VP's M1 for the injection. This is what I personally use. All you are using the injection for is to cool the air charge. This is how you get more power, because you can add more timing or boost with a cooler charge. M3 has a hydrocarbon in it and won't pull the heat like M1. M5 has a hydrocarbon and a combustion additive. I would definitely not use this. It could have bad results by combusting in the air inlet tube between the turbo and the throttle body. M1 is your best choice.
QUESTIONS SPECIFIC TO M5
Q. Does M5 contain Nitromethane?
A. M5 contains nitroparaffins, which are relatives of nitromethane in the same chemical family.
Q. Are there any applications where M5 isn't appropriate?
A. So far M5 has worked in every application I have tried it in. From a single cylinder Briggs JR dragster to a Brad Anderson blown hemi. If you're adamant about running methanol, there is no reason you shouldn't run M5. It's more consistent, you'll use less, and it makes gobs of Hp.
Q. What jetting changes does M5 require?
A. This fuel seems to be very friendly in jetting. Steve Petty dynoed a 1000 rear wheel Hp vehicle and increased the jetting 15% and the car made 1080 to the tire. He reduced the jetting to 7% and the car went 1079 to the tire. This is an 8% tuning window. I recommend you jet up 10 to 12% to start and then you can back down from there. Al Brown (Antron's father) did a back to back test with M5 vs. M1. His combination is a 540 ci injected big block Chevy running Top Dragster. With no difference in jetting, the car picked up .11 seconds and 6 mph. Again, every combination is different and you'll need to run the tests to determine what your combination likes.
Q. What timing changes does M5 require?
A. As with Q16, so far I have left the timing alone. Run what timing you had with regular methanol. Here's my thought. The hydrocarbons in the fuel help vaporization, so you SHOULD be able to retard the timing a bit. But the fuel also contains nitroparrifins, which generally need the timing advanced to start the burn earlier. Since they are both in the fuel, they almost seem to cancel each other out, hence the timing will stay the same. Weird huh?
Q. Do you need to use an upper lube with M5?
A. No, M5 already has enough upper lube in it. While VP's M2 is excellent for use for straight methanol, I don't recommend adding it to M5. I have seen injection nozzles clog up because of the extra lube.
Q. If I'm using regular methanol now, should I try M3 or M5?
A. Unless you've already tried M3 with success (and M3 works great in many applications), I'd go right from regular methanol to M5. The range of applications that can benefit from M3 is slightly more limited than M5, while M5 will pick up virtually any application you put it in.
Q. Why does M5 work so much better than straight methanol?
A. In two words, BETTER VAPORIZATION. Regular methanol doesn't like to vaporize in the combustion chamber. It likes to stay in liquid form. In the combustion chamber on the combustion stroke, the engine needs to burn 2 things, fuel vapor and oxygen. If the fuel doesn't vaporize well, then you will have wasted fuel going out the exhaust. The hydrocarbons and nitroparrifins in M5 help to vaporize the fuel more efficiently. This way there's more fuel vapor in the combustion chamber and in turn the engine will make more power.
Q. How long can I leave M5 in my fuel cell between uses?
A.I recommend the same as Q16. If the car is going to sit for a week or so, drain it out and put it back in the drum. Also, the fuel will not separate.
QUESTIONS RE: METHANOL IN GENERAL
Q. Can M3 or M5 be used with a methanol injection kit?
A. I'd use regular methanol like VP's M1 for the injection. This is what I personally use. All you are using the injection for is to cool the air charge. This is how you get more power, because you can add more timing or boost with a cooler charge. M3 has a hydrocarbon in it and won't pull the heat like M1. M5 has a hydrocarbon and a combustion additive. I would definitely not use this. It could have bad results by combusting in the air inlet tube between the turbo and the throttle body. M1 is your best choice.