New Eldelbrock SC
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 16,067
Likes: 4,150
From: Bergen county NJ
Any kit that requires the fuel to make 600hp is going to need a fuel pump improvement so comparing apples to apples....and staying with the 550hp model for comparision might make more sense..
I must be the only one who thinks 116 hp improvement makes more sense since its closer to the tolerances for the other drivetrain components "safety zone" that the manufacturer built into the vehicle
I don't need the mega hp ...and I did the cam/headers/gear mods in my last c5 and it was a pain in the butt as far as reliability..(quality tuner blah..blah..blah)
It was a pain in the butt...so I'm weary of any mod but would enjoy extra power in an OEM like reliable setup....
If it doesn't exist...then stock is fine and just pocket the 7,8 or 9 grand..
Maybe this new setup will be less about ultimate power and more about OEM like fit and finish.. (reliablity and maintaince)
I don't want to hear about belts flying off....oil consumption or blow by or any nonsensical tuning issues...driveability issues either...
I realize some guys find it interesting and part of modding...and for them...more power to them...but ....and its a big butt...there are a ton of enthusiasts willing to drop 7 or 8 grand for an utterly reliable for 100,000 miles for an extra 116 ponies ...
JMO at the moment.
I must be the only one who thinks 116 hp improvement makes more sense since its closer to the tolerances for the other drivetrain components "safety zone" that the manufacturer built into the vehicle
I don't need the mega hp ...and I did the cam/headers/gear mods in my last c5 and it was a pain in the butt as far as reliability..(quality tuner blah..blah..blah)
It was a pain in the butt...so I'm weary of any mod but would enjoy extra power in an OEM like reliable setup....
If it doesn't exist...then stock is fine and just pocket the 7,8 or 9 grand..
Maybe this new setup will be less about ultimate power and more about OEM like fit and finish.. (reliablity and maintaince)
I don't want to hear about belts flying off....oil consumption or blow by or any nonsensical tuning issues...driveability issues either...
I realize some guys find it interesting and part of modding...and for them...more power to them...but ....and its a big butt...there are a ton of enthusiasts willing to drop 7 or 8 grand for an utterly reliable for 100,000 miles for an extra 116 ponies ...
JMO at the moment.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 82
I believe just about any of our existing forum sc vendors could sell you a heavily detuned version of their kit with only 470rwhp that will go the distance. For most it would probably be a simple pulley and belt change.
Last edited by Motorhead-47; Dec 5, 2009 at 01:04 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 379
From: NSL UT
wouldn't a detuned centri system making 470 get mop up by this on the street because of the torque curve this kit has. say two cars in fourth gear on the freeway at 3000 rpms? Not trying to argue for sure, just learning before I pull the trigger on anything
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,555
Likes: 1,255
From: Saint Albans, WV
You seem to be forgetting that all the torque in the world can over power the rear tires out of the hole. If you get traction the centri car will pull like a freight train all the way to the top once boost is fully achieved long after your power has been maxed.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 379
From: NSL UT
So what do you think would be better pulling out of a corner on a roadcourse? I know most will say NA for that purpose, but I want the power on the street but still want to be able to track the car.
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Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
If your going below or near 2500 on a road course you must be on a tight track. My Turbo Pcar RaceCar didn't hit boost until 3700rpm and I never went below that on a track...I can't imagine going down to <3k rpm. Now with all that being said I still think to make a FI'd C6 corvette run cool enough for "fast" track sessions ALOT of cooling work needs to be done(maybe more than its even worth). IMO a Positive Displacement Blower aka Roots/Screw will compound the cooling issue even more as they are proven to be less efficient at high RPM levels which you are at 80%+ of the time on the track.
Just my 2 cents
Chad
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
When the Koenigsegg 1st came out they used twin Vortech's. They needed to make big power on that 32 valve Ford motor and they didn't go use a Roots blower to accomplish that. But again this was a true exotic car that had low volume and high $$$. When your building something like that you can use the "best" blower on the market.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
From: Texas 1,002rwhp/928rwtq
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
It is insanely expensive, difficult and time consuming to get a contract with the big three. Eaton has been a supplier for a very long time, so adding another product to their "certification" is much easier for them.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 379
From: NSL UT
Personally I like how a centri-blown car feels just like a N/A car on the road course the power characteristics to a well tuned N/A track car and a Centri car are very similar. Think about if you have a well tuned N/A for the track how they are typically "weak" down low but pull like heck up top. A Centri car pull better than stock down low but continues pulls like a banshee the higher you go. It's like retaining the same characteristics as before but at a whole new power level....that's why I like a Centri car for the track.
If your going below or near 2500 on a road course you must be on a tight track. My Turbo Pcar RaceCar didn't hit boost until 3700rpm and I never went below that on a track...I can't imagine going down to <3k rpm. Now with all that being said I still think to make a FI'd C6 corvette run cool enough for "fast" track sessions ALOT of cooling work needs to be done(maybe more than its even worth). IMO a Positive Displacement Blower aka Roots/Screw will compound the cooling issue even more as they are proven to be less efficient at high RPM levels which you are at 80%+ of the time on the track.
Just my 2 cents
Chad
If your going below or near 2500 on a road course you must be on a tight track. My Turbo Pcar RaceCar didn't hit boost until 3700rpm and I never went below that on a track...I can't imagine going down to <3k rpm. Now with all that being said I still think to make a FI'd C6 corvette run cool enough for "fast" track sessions ALOT of cooling work needs to be done(maybe more than its even worth). IMO a Positive Displacement Blower aka Roots/Screw will compound the cooling issue even more as they are proven to be less efficient at high RPM levels which you are at 80%+ of the time on the track.
Just my 2 cents
Chad
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 0
From: Chapel Hill NC
This unit uses the rotors and some other parts of the Eaton unit but NOT the housing. Does anyone know how the leakage past the rotors is handled in E's unit? In the GM installation, some sort of coating is utilized to "wear in" the rotors so that leakage is minimized by minimizing the clearence between the rotors and the housing.
Second question, would a KB boost a pump serve as well as a new fuel pump?
Second question, would a KB boost a pump serve as well as a new fuel pump?
Former Vendor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 1
This unit uses the rotors and some other parts of the Eaton unit but NOT the housing. Does anyone know how the leakage past the rotors is handled in E's unit? In the GM installation, some sort of coating is utilized to "wear in" the rotors so that leakage is minimized by minimizing the clearence between the rotors and the housing.
Second question, would a KB boost a pump serve as well as a new fuel pump?
Second question, would a KB boost a pump serve as well as a new fuel pump?
This info is for the Mustang, but it explains a lot of it.
The KP Boost A Pump is what we use for the fuel requirements until we get into the higher boosted applications. Bob
Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Dallas TX
All the talk about Root blowers, Twin screw ect, ect, compared to centri. Does anyone have a record/numbers of both making about the same RWHP they could show or better yet a video of the two going head to head (on a Closed course)…
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,690
Likes: 1
From: Northern Calif
yeah I agree. How about a dyno showing the hp torque at say 1/2 throttle in different gears at different speeds. Everything out there is WOT or nothing. Then they compare the # at different rpms during these WOT pulls. Not realistic IMHO
Last edited by knkali; Dec 16, 2009 at 11:50 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
If part throttle increase in power is what you're after, go roots or PD. Great for street apps. I see a couple of lbs of boost for an instant when I hit the resume button on my cruise control (under 2000 rpm). More power is available at the twitch of your right foot at rpm's you actually use on the street. And contrary to what you often read here, it pulls hard all the way to redline. TVS 2300 works for me (Maggie). Works for the ZR1 and soon to be working for Edelbrock.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 15
Check this out:
A TT feeding a Maggie on GT500 using the above heat exchanger. The turbos don't even use Intercooler, straight from turbos to S/C
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/i...y/IMG_5586.JPG
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/i...ery/gt5002.jpg
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/i...t%20medium.jpg
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ah4V...ayer_embedded#
Last edited by Z_Rocks; Dec 16, 2009 at 11:30 PM.