CI GS

Here's how it fits with the stock and Dewitt rads. It's a bit of a squeeze with the Dewitts rad but it works.

CI GS

Ok folks, the affair with the ECS tensioner is over. It simply cannot work unless and until someone builds a sturdy enough manual tensioner that can work with it. Read on:
After installing the new RPM belt this evening, I test fired the car and, to my amazement and dismay, as I walked around the front of the car to check everything out, I saw that the belt was climbing up over the front of the blower pulley, due to the ICS Billet tensioner flexing forward and basically "dumping" the belt. I quickly shut the car down and loosened the tensioner and readjusted it so that the ECS tensioner was about halfway closed, restarted the car, and the same thing started happening again, just not as quickly. So, it appears that because the Napa belt was basically rubber-banding, it didn't put as much tension on the ICT tensioner, but with these RPM belts, which are very sturdy and have no give, the ECS tensioner is just too much and overwhelms the structural integrity of the ICT tensioner. I'm thinking now that this is also what killed the other RPM belt the other night.
So, up on the lift it went, and off with the ECS tensioner. I ended up leaving the inner bracket on the car, just because I was lazy, but I had to pull the outer one off, because it looked like it would make contact with the belt in the stock configuration. I installed the stock weakass tensioner (will order a new one of those) and was very happy to see that the original 98" RPM belt that I ordered fits perfectly.
I also loaded a new tune with some MAF table tweaks from my good buddy schpenxel (thanks again Carson) and will light it up tomorrow, if the weather holds, and see what it does.

ls1wolf

What a debacle, but after all said and done... Stock works sometimes!

CI GS

Yep. But somebody's got to be the guinea pig I guess. After sorting out all the other **** and the belt length etc., it's really disappointing that it comes down to a friggin flexing billet aluminium tensioner. If that thing were made out of better material, it would have worked. So it goes I guess.
But the stock tensioner didn't work, and I couldn't find a HD upgrade for it, which is what sent me off on this odyssey.
On that note: I've just found a Dayco flat spring tensioner (link below) that according to Rockauto, will fit on our cars. It looks to be a much heavier duty version of the stock one. I've just ordered one via FedEx int priority. Hope to have it by the weekend. Might not even try the car until I get it, because I don't want that POS stock limpdick tensioner to screw another RPM belt.
http://www.daycoproducts.com/part?ca...number%3D89616

ls1wolf

Ah ok, misread that. Good to note. I'll just hang till I hear back! haha

Side note - working on that Hayden cooler as we speak. Tight fit!

CI GS

It is a tight fit. Do you have a Dewitts? If so, you're going to see a bulge in the AC core. With the stock rad, all I did was mount the cooler to the rad, as per one of the pictures I posted, and then attach the condenser core to the rad. It's so much easier if you have everything out of the car, like I did when I changed the cam.

ls1wolf

Stock rad. Now I'm trying to figure out if I should the cooler before or after the stock rad cooler. Or just separate.... I live in Michigan so extreme hot temps are a rare thing here.

schpenxel

That is a shame... went from a tensioner that is so weak you could probably open it by hand to one that's so strong that it's bending the manual tensioner. Someone just needs to make a stronger manual tensioner for that thing

Hate that you wasted so much time on it but I guess there wasn't much other way to see if it'd work

I'm wondering how tough it'd be to make a beefed up version of that manual tensioner now

CI GS

I would route it so the ATF goes through the rad first so that it warms up with the coolant. That should work for winter (as if I have any idea what that is ) and keep your TFTs under control in the summer. The cooler is still going to be hanging behind the HX and AC core anyhow, so it won't be directly exposed to cold airflow anyhow.

CI GS

Yeah, I don't mind doing the research to be honest. It was worth a try, and if I could get someone to copy the ICT out of some good 1/2" steel stock, I'm convinced that it would work with the ECS tensioner. It's just that the ICT tensioner literally flexs, by about 1/8", just from the load of the ECS tensioner.
That Dayco looks to be what I've always been looking for, though. I just never thought to look for it on Rockauto before, which was pretty dumb.
Rockauto rocks for real.
When I get it, I'm going to dig out my digital torque wrench and record the difference in tension between that and the stock one, and post it up here.
Who knows, maybe we'll lick this belt slip thing yet.
BTW: I checked some of my earlier logs and saw that I used to hit 12.3 psi with the old Gates green stripe belt, so I'm pretty sure that I can get 12psi out of this thing.
I'm dying to try out that new tune you did, but I may just wait until I get the new tensioner.

Curt D

I bypassed mine. I don't drive in the winter though. Another option is a thermostat. I believe you can also get a 140 deg element (as they call it)
http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-th...65f-p-423.html

Curt D

[QUOTE=CI GS;1595087135]Yeah, I don't mind doing the research to be honest. It was worth a try, and if I could get someone to copy the ICT out of some good 1/2" steel stock, I'm convinced that it would work with the ECS tensioner. It's just that the ICT tensioner literally flexs, by about 1/8", just from the load of the ECS tensioner.
/QUOTE]

Could you post a pic of the tensioner you need made?

CI GS

[QUOTE=Curt D;1595087200]Here's what it looks like:

CI GS

From what I observed, I think it may be that those countersunk stainless mounting bolts are the culprits. It looks like the entire bracket is flexing. I have half a mind to try it with some longer grade 8 bolts and fender washers and see if it flexes.
Or just see if I can find some hardened high grade countersunk bolts. Those regular stainless bolts can stretch pretty good. Now I'm starting to think I may have been a little hasty in pulling off the EC`s tensioner...

Curt D

[QUOTE=CI GS;1595087295]If I have it I'm my hands for a day, I can get some #s to draw it up. I can make one from steel after that. We can go with the c'sunk holes or just a std thru hole. We can try a steel arm or the whole thing.

CI GS

[QUOTE=Curt D;1595087366]Thanks man, that's greatly appreciated. But I honestly believe now that it was those countersunk S/S bolts that were stretching, not the bracket or arm bending, because I could literally see the whole tensioner assembly tilting forward when I put pressure on the belt. Stupidly, it didn't occur to then, and it wasn't until I looked at the pictures that it dawned on me.
I'm going to try the new Dayco tensioner when it arrives. I have a feeling that this, coupled with the RPM belt, might just put an end to my belt slip problems.
If I'm right on that, then anyone running a Hbeat will have the benefit of a much cheaper and easier solution to belt slip problems than going through all that I have been through with trying to get the ECS tensioner to work. To be honest, I was a little bit worried that it was too much tension, in particular on the water pump pulley, which I never got around to welding
I will certainly report back here on it. Thanks again.
PS: If you do decide to go with the Hbeat, at least you'll have the benefit of my foolish adventures on here, and some damn good advice from some other guys that really know their stuff.

CI GS

My new Dayco tensioner has already shipped from Rockauto!
And for a whopping $53 at that, which is less than list price on the stock tensioner, plus $33 for FedEx international priority shipping. That's even less than what the RPM belt cost me.
I should be able to get my hands on that by tomorrow afternoon.
Rockauto rocks!

Curt D

What is the point or boost level that slip becomes an issue?

CI GS

Seems like whenever you reach around 10-11psi, using the smallest of the upper pulleys, it becomes a problem. Most have dealt with it by putting the smallest belt they can fit on the pulleys. I believe that the Achilles' heel of this system is that stupid stock tensioner. The one on my car is so weak that I can collapse it using my palm and pushing it all the way down. I have no idea if I have a particularly weak one on my car though.
Most folks running the Heartbeat on the C6 don't mess with any of this stuff because they don't want or need more than 650whp, which is about where the ceiling on the C6 version of the Hbeat is, mainly because of the inability to pulley down beyond a 2.5:1 ratio, which is where I'm at (8" lower/3.2" upper) and the constraints of the smaller plenum and shorter charge air coolers, as well as no available inlet snout for a 102mm or 108mm throttle body upgrade (the Camaro and Caddy boys are picking up 50+whp with the bigger throttle bodies).
I'm going to get the belt slip thing behind me and then maybe I'll do a bit of experimentation with those things...

old motorhead

Well dam Sam. Hate you're going through all of this. Did you ever try a belt like the Continental Elite that doesn't stretch much. That cured my belt slip, but I was only at 10psi. Andy was running boost very close to yours using the same belt with no slip.

That brings up another question for the smart guys here. Is boost level a good measure of load or power required to turn the blower? I know mine didn't slip until the last 1500 rpm during a pull. From the hit to 5000rpm, no slip. From there up to 6500 rpm, boost fell to 8psi. Makes me think that RPM has something to do with it too.