E-force vs Magnuson
07-16-2015, 11:25 PM
#21
Supporting Vendor
Making this post from home on my phone but tomorrow I'll type out a nice response outlying all the kits we have installed and what I feel are the pros and cons of each.
07-16-2015, 11:56 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
LS3 Corvette (mine) and in a Camaro LS3 - Obvious blower whine at all times during idle and light driving with the blow off valve. At full tilt you don't hear the blower at all and just sounds like an air sucking monster. Power delivery is linear and exponential. Torque curve is a bit higher (peak for me is around 5000 rpms) but feels more like a jet engine on take off. Top end power was more impressive and it will also heat soak, although not even remotely close to as bad as the E-Force. Normal driving car with the BOV constantly going off gives a lot of attention.
That's my nutshell quick synopsis of the two...I'll maybe detail more tomorrow.
Oh lastly, centri w/methanol = no heat soak
I make the power time and time again without loss of power. 
Last edited by Nosferatu; 07-17-2015 at 12:00 AM.
07-17-2015, 07:13 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
07-17-2015, 07:19 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
LS3 E-Force (Corvette) - Sounds like and drove like naturally aspirated and even when getting on it you barely heard any audible blower whine. You could "feel" when the bypass valve was closing and the blower kicked in. This hurt the "linear feel" to me for day to day driving. Power was instant but after one nice power hit the car would get substantially weaker. Heat soak was a pain. After one, or by definitely two, full throttle hits car feels like it's down 50 RWHP or so. This car at a dyno day went from 545 RWHP to 501RWHP in 3 dyno pulls to give an idea. In my opinion, kit is costly for what you get. This car got a retune (almost 590RWHP) and it woke up a lot more than the factory kit with Edelbrock's "tune." Their tune leaves a lot to be desired on the table but that's why they can offer it with a warranty. It's ultra conservative.
LS3 Corvette (mine) and in a Camaro LS3 - Obvious blower whine at all times during idle and light driving with the blow off valve. At full tilt you don't hear the blower at all and just sounds like an air sucking monster. Power delivery is linear and exponential. Torque curve is a bit higher (peak for me is around 5000 rpms) but feels more like a jet engine on take off. Top end power was more impressive and it will also heat soak, although not even remotely close to as bad as the E-Force. Normal driving car with the BOV constantly going off gives a lot of attention.
That's my nutshell quick synopsis of the two...I'll maybe detail more tomorrow.
Oh lastly, centri w/methanol = no heat soak I make the power time and time again without loss of power.
LS3 Corvette (mine) and in a Camaro LS3 - Obvious blower whine at all times during idle and light driving with the blow off valve. At full tilt you don't hear the blower at all and just sounds like an air sucking monster. Power delivery is linear and exponential. Torque curve is a bit higher (peak for me is around 5000 rpms) but feels more like a jet engine on take off. Top end power was more impressive and it will also heat soak, although not even remotely close to as bad as the E-Force. Normal driving car with the BOV constantly going off gives a lot of attention.
That's my nutshell quick synopsis of the two...I'll maybe detail more tomorrow.
Oh lastly, centri w/methanol = no heat soak
I make the power time and time again without loss of power.
07-17-2015, 07:57 AM
#25
Le Mans Master
It is very important to really think out what you want out of the car, and if you feel you will want more later.
Had the Eforce on a stock LS2 for a few years. It is reliable, a blast to drive, and maintenance free. If you are not interested in racing, and feel you wont want more power later, it is a great choice. The heat soak issue is totally blown out of proportion. Unless you are racing the car, you will not even notice.
If you are thinking of racing, or growing later, then centri is the way to go.
Had the Eforce on a stock LS2 for a few years. It is reliable, a blast to drive, and maintenance free. If you are not interested in racing, and feel you wont want more power later, it is a great choice. The heat soak issue is totally blown out of proportion. Unless you are racing the car, you will not even notice.
If you are thinking of racing, or growing later, then centri is the way to go.
07-17-2015, 08:11 AM
#26
Le Mans Master
Honestly, on the E-Force it's about right (the heat soak). I can't comment on the heartbeat or other PD setups but if all you plan on doing is one full throttle hit per drive, then it's fine. If you want to hit it more than once within a 5-10min stretch the car gets substantially slower. Maybe it's better in northern climates but in Florida that's how my friend's former Vette drove with the E-Force in our weather. I see you're in Canada. Big weather difference.
07-17-2015, 08:25 AM
#27
Le Mans Master
Honestly, on the E-Force it's about right (the heat soak). I can't comment on the heartbeat or other PD setups but if all you plan on doing is one full throttle hit per drive, then it's fine. If you want to hit it more than once within a 5-10min stretch the car gets substantially slower. Maybe it's better in northern climates but in Florida that's how my friend's former Vette drove with the E-Force in our weather. I see you're in Canada. Big weather difference.
07-17-2015, 02:52 PM
#29
Supporting Vendor
Ok here is my opinion on the different systems we have installed and the pro's and con's of each for a C6 corvette
Centrifugal systems.
Pros in general: no hood required, linear power band, easy to make more down the road, cheapest offering out there
Cons in general: stop light to stop light racing is not as fun as a pd blower, makes routine maintenance like belts a little more of a pain.
ECS: Pros: gives you a larger head unit out of the box so you have lots of room to grow, restrictor plate is great at allowing you to make more low end tq by spinning the blower a little harder and restricting airflow in the upper rpm's in terms of out of the box kit vs out of the box kit. Belt can be changed with the headunit on the car. Can do the bov in loud or quiet format.
Cons: some of the stuff you don't see under the car is not as nice looking as the A&A kit but functions flawlessly.
A&A: Pros: nice price point given the smaller head unit, installs easier than the ECS kit imo.
Cons: head unit comes off for a belt change, not hard but adds time (this might be revised now) Small S-trim max's out extremely fast so just do a T-trim right away, when making significant power small bov has to be upgraded.
Procharger: Pros: Nice headunits.
Cons: Belt wrap is least desirable of all the kits, tensioner design fails easily, appearance wise imo is least desirable
PD blower kits middle price point
Pros in general: Crazy fun in a light street car, burnouts whenever you want, feels like a big block.
Cons in general: super high hp build limited, needs additional work to keep iat's in check if you like to 1/2 mile race
E-force: Pros: no hood needed, easy install, oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
Cons: horrible iat's compared to other's. when pushed the system has to have upgraded heat exchanger, pump, and even an icebox. Lid is so tight that it causes a lot of this plus very small heat exchanger doesn't help.
Magnuson: TVS 2300 Pros: Very good Iat control, can really be pushed to make 800 rwhp w/ good gas. oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
cons: requires a hood
Magnuson: Heartbeat Pros: no hood required, visually stunning imo, comes w/ a varimax pump, great iat control over other pd blower systems, big intercooler bricks, big lines for flow.
Cons: No jackshaft so can't be pushed as hard as the standard TVS
Whipple: Pros: can make big power for a pd blower when pushed, very good iat control, lines use an fittings, very well thought out and put together system
Cons: requires a hood, needs some cooling mods done if really pushed
Kenne bell: Pros: I see no pro's for a lsx car.
Cons: Worst iat's out of any pd blower car, it's because we don't have the valley like a mustang for a big brick.
Turbo kits: Highest price point (for a quality one)
APS: if you can find one Pros: under the hood looks really nice and clean, cast manifolds, routine maintenance is just as easy as stock. Great tq and hp, adjustable power w/ a boost controller.
cons: very expensive install if paying someone, later service work if turbos have to be removed adds a lot of additional cost, limited on turbo sizes so super high hp cant be achieved.
TTIX: Pros: fantastic quality, love cast manifolds, no scavage pump needed, same above pros as aps
cons: same as APS
These are my opinions on all the offerings that we have installed on C5,6, 7 corvettes. Some people may ask what I would buy for my own car and that should not be used as a gauge for what to put on yours as your budget and goals might be different than mine. We sell all these companies except for kenne bell, aps, and edelbrock. Does this mean don't do them, no! It just means we have chosen not to sell them (aps is because they are out of the us market so I would if I could lol) Any questions you may have feel free to pm me, email, or call the shop.
Centrifugal systems.
Pros in general: no hood required, linear power band, easy to make more down the road, cheapest offering out there
Cons in general: stop light to stop light racing is not as fun as a pd blower, makes routine maintenance like belts a little more of a pain.
ECS: Pros: gives you a larger head unit out of the box so you have lots of room to grow, restrictor plate is great at allowing you to make more low end tq by spinning the blower a little harder and restricting airflow in the upper rpm's in terms of out of the box kit vs out of the box kit. Belt can be changed with the headunit on the car. Can do the bov in loud or quiet format.
Cons: some of the stuff you don't see under the car is not as nice looking as the A&A kit but functions flawlessly.
A&A: Pros: nice price point given the smaller head unit, installs easier than the ECS kit imo.
Cons: head unit comes off for a belt change, not hard but adds time (this might be revised now) Small S-trim max's out extremely fast so just do a T-trim right away, when making significant power small bov has to be upgraded.
Procharger: Pros: Nice headunits.
Cons: Belt wrap is least desirable of all the kits, tensioner design fails easily, appearance wise imo is least desirable
PD blower kits middle price point
Pros in general: Crazy fun in a light street car, burnouts whenever you want, feels like a big block.
Cons in general: super high hp build limited, needs additional work to keep iat's in check if you like to 1/2 mile race
E-force: Pros: no hood needed, easy install, oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
Cons: horrible iat's compared to other's. when pushed the system has to have upgraded heat exchanger, pump, and even an icebox. Lid is so tight that it causes a lot of this plus very small heat exchanger doesn't help.
Magnuson: TVS 2300 Pros: Very good Iat control, can really be pushed to make 800 rwhp w/ good gas. oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
cons: requires a hood
Magnuson: Heartbeat Pros: no hood required, visually stunning imo, comes w/ a varimax pump, great iat control over other pd blower systems, big intercooler bricks, big lines for flow.
Cons: No jackshaft so can't be pushed as hard as the standard TVS
Whipple: Pros: can make big power for a pd blower when pushed, very good iat control, lines use an fittings, very well thought out and put together system
Cons: requires a hood, needs some cooling mods done if really pushed
Kenne bell: Pros: I see no pro's for a lsx car.
Cons: Worst iat's out of any pd blower car, it's because we don't have the valley like a mustang for a big brick.
Turbo kits: Highest price point (for a quality one)
APS: if you can find one Pros: under the hood looks really nice and clean, cast manifolds, routine maintenance is just as easy as stock. Great tq and hp, adjustable power w/ a boost controller.
cons: very expensive install if paying someone, later service work if turbos have to be removed adds a lot of additional cost, limited on turbo sizes so super high hp cant be achieved.
TTIX: Pros: fantastic quality, love cast manifolds, no scavage pump needed, same above pros as aps
cons: same as APS
These are my opinions on all the offerings that we have installed on C5,6, 7 corvettes. Some people may ask what I would buy for my own car and that should not be used as a gauge for what to put on yours as your budget and goals might be different than mine. We sell all these companies except for kenne bell, aps, and edelbrock. Does this mean don't do them, no! It just means we have chosen not to sell them (aps is because they are out of the us market so I would if I could lol) Any questions you may have feel free to pm me, email, or call the shop.
__________________
Cordes Performance Racing aka "CPR"
Owner of AZ's premier LSX/LTX motorsports shop
http://cordesperformanceracing.com/
www.facebook.com/cordesperformanceracing.com
joe@cordesperformanceracing.com
480-359-5914
Cordes Performance Racing aka "CPR"
Owner of AZ's premier LSX/LTX motorsports shop
http://cordesperformanceracing.com/
www.facebook.com/cordesperformanceracing.com
joe@cordesperformanceracing.com
480-359-5914
07-17-2015, 03:31 PM
#30
Le Mans Master
As for looks, I think the ECS in matte black looks OEM'ish. Here's my engine bay. It doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like the polished units do.
07-17-2015, 03:40 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
While most of your descriptions mix fact with opinion, mostly opinion, I must say having driven both ECS and E-Force setups I can say I agree with your thoughts on both. This should be a sticky post alone in the forced induction section. Would save a ton of questions.
As for looks, I think the ECS in matte black looks OEM'ish. Here's my engine bay. It doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like the polished units do.
As for looks, I think the ECS in matte black looks OEM'ish. Here's my engine bay. It doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like the polished units do.
07-17-2015, 04:17 PM
#32
Supporting Vendor
Thank you, the only thing I think was opinion'ish was my views on appearance. I tried to keep it down to install, hp abilities, ease of install, post install service, and potential issues w/ the kits. I personally have a blacked out ECS kit going on my C5 and love how they look
07-21-2015, 08:07 PM
#33
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Sorry to post and run. I've been in the process of moving and just got a chance to catch up on all the great info everyone provided. Thanks so much. After reading all this I think centri is more what I want.
And I love the matt black nosferatu!!
And I love the matt black nosferatu!!
07-21-2015, 10:22 PM
#34
Race Director
Well explained! Thank u
Ok here is my opinion on the different systems we have installed and the pro's and con's of each for a C6 corvette
Centrifugal systems.
Pros in general: no hood required, linear power band, easy to make more down the road, cheapest offering out there
Cons in general: stop light to stop light racing is not as fun as a pd blower, makes routine maintenance like belts a little more of a pain.
ECS: Pros: gives you a larger head unit out of the box so you have lots of room to grow, restrictor plate is great at allowing you to make more low end tq by spinning the blower a little harder and restricting airflow in the upper rpm's in terms of out of the box kit vs out of the box kit. Belt can be changed with the headunit on the car. Can do the bov in loud or quiet format.
Cons: some of the stuff you don't see under the car is not as nice looking as the A&A kit but functions flawlessly.
A&A: Pros: nice price point given the smaller head unit, installs easier than the ECS kit imo.
Cons: head unit comes off for a belt change, not hard but adds time (this might be revised now) Small S-trim max's out extremely fast so just do a T-trim right away, when making significant power small bov has to be upgraded.
Procharger: Pros: Nice headunits.
Cons: Belt wrap is least desirable of all the kits, tensioner design fails easily, appearance wise imo is least desirable
PD blower kits middle price point
Pros in general: Crazy fun in a light street car, burnouts whenever you want, feels like a big block.
Cons in general: super high hp build limited, needs additional work to keep iat's in check if you like to 1/2 mile race
E-force: Pros: no hood needed, easy install, oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
Cons: horrible iat's compared to other's. when pushed the system has to have upgraded heat exchanger, pump, and even an icebox. Lid is so tight that it causes a lot of this plus very small heat exchanger doesn't help.
Magnuson: TVS 2300 Pros: Very good Iat control, can really be pushed to make 800 rwhp w/ good gas. oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
cons: requires a hood
Magnuson: Heartbeat Pros: no hood required, visually stunning imo, comes w/ a varimax pump, great iat control over other pd blower systems, big intercooler bricks, big lines for flow.
Cons: No jackshaft so can't be pushed as hard as the standard TVS
Whipple: Pros: can make big power for a pd blower when pushed, very good iat control, lines use an fittings, very well thought out and put together system
Cons: requires a hood, needs some cooling mods done if really pushed
Kenne bell: Pros: I see no pro's for a lsx car.
Cons: Worst iat's out of any pd blower car, it's because we don't have the valley like a mustang for a big brick.
Turbo kits: Highest price point (for a quality one)
APS: if you can find one Pros: under the hood looks really nice and clean, cast manifolds, routine maintenance is just as easy as stock. Great tq and hp, adjustable power w/ a boost controller.
cons: very expensive install if paying someone, later service work if turbos have to be removed adds a lot of additional cost, limited on turbo sizes so super high hp cant be achieved.
TTIX: Pros: fantastic quality, love cast manifolds, no scavage pump needed, same above pros as aps
cons: same as APS
These are my opinions on all the offerings that we have installed on C5,6, 7 corvettes. Some people may ask what I would buy for my own car and that should not be used as a gauge for what to put on yours as your budget and goals might be different than mine. We sell all these companies except for kenne bell, aps, and edelbrock. Does this mean don't do them, no! It just means we have chosen not to sell them (aps is because they are out of the us market so I would if I could lol) Any questions you may have feel free to pm me, email, or call the shop.
Centrifugal systems.
Pros in general: no hood required, linear power band, easy to make more down the road, cheapest offering out there
Cons in general: stop light to stop light racing is not as fun as a pd blower, makes routine maintenance like belts a little more of a pain.
ECS: Pros: gives you a larger head unit out of the box so you have lots of room to grow, restrictor plate is great at allowing you to make more low end tq by spinning the blower a little harder and restricting airflow in the upper rpm's in terms of out of the box kit vs out of the box kit. Belt can be changed with the headunit on the car. Can do the bov in loud or quiet format.
Cons: some of the stuff you don't see under the car is not as nice looking as the A&A kit but functions flawlessly.
A&A: Pros: nice price point given the smaller head unit, installs easier than the ECS kit imo.
Cons: head unit comes off for a belt change, not hard but adds time (this might be revised now) Small S-trim max's out extremely fast so just do a T-trim right away, when making significant power small bov has to be upgraded.
Procharger: Pros: Nice headunits.
Cons: Belt wrap is least desirable of all the kits, tensioner design fails easily, appearance wise imo is least desirable
PD blower kits middle price point
Pros in general: Crazy fun in a light street car, burnouts whenever you want, feels like a big block.
Cons in general: super high hp build limited, needs additional work to keep iat's in check if you like to 1/2 mile race
E-force: Pros: no hood needed, easy install, oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
Cons: horrible iat's compared to other's. when pushed the system has to have upgraded heat exchanger, pump, and even an icebox. Lid is so tight that it causes a lot of this plus very small heat exchanger doesn't help.
Magnuson: TVS 2300 Pros: Very good Iat control, can really be pushed to make 800 rwhp w/ good gas. oem reliability, instant low end which is a blast for a street car
cons: requires a hood
Magnuson: Heartbeat Pros: no hood required, visually stunning imo, comes w/ a varimax pump, great iat control over other pd blower systems, big intercooler bricks, big lines for flow.
Cons: No jackshaft so can't be pushed as hard as the standard TVS
Whipple: Pros: can make big power for a pd blower when pushed, very good iat control, lines use an fittings, very well thought out and put together system
Cons: requires a hood, needs some cooling mods done if really pushed
Kenne bell: Pros: I see no pro's for a lsx car.
Cons: Worst iat's out of any pd blower car, it's because we don't have the valley like a mustang for a big brick.
Turbo kits: Highest price point (for a quality one)
APS: if you can find one Pros: under the hood looks really nice and clean, cast manifolds, routine maintenance is just as easy as stock. Great tq and hp, adjustable power w/ a boost controller.
cons: very expensive install if paying someone, later service work if turbos have to be removed adds a lot of additional cost, limited on turbo sizes so super high hp cant be achieved.
TTIX: Pros: fantastic quality, love cast manifolds, no scavage pump needed, same above pros as aps
cons: same as APS
These are my opinions on all the offerings that we have installed on C5,6, 7 corvettes. Some people may ask what I would buy for my own car and that should not be used as a gauge for what to put on yours as your budget and goals might be different than mine. We sell all these companies except for kenne bell, aps, and edelbrock. Does this mean don't do them, no! It just means we have chosen not to sell them (aps is because they are out of the us market so I would if I could lol) Any questions you may have feel free to pm me, email, or call the shop.