Twayneo1

Hey guys, my car is blown, and I've really wanted to get some texas speed shop headers, but also get HP tuners so i don't have to pay a tuner anymore. I was able to install my A&A kit myself and i know more than the average person about cars and how they work. My question is, if i put headers on, do you think it would be a good mod to add when i want to start to learn to tune my car. I don't really want to spend a thousand dollars on the tuning school, id really like to teach myself. Has anyone had any experience just buying HPT and learning on their own? (sorry i should have put this in the scan and tune section)

Detoxx03

I'm sure people have went that route before.

User Omega

There are plenty of guys on youtube who will tell you the basics but refining the skill of tuning takes years.

NJ_phil

I didn't know dick about EFI and my last build used a Mallory dual point distributor. Picked up HPT last year and do all my own tuning. No matter what you run into, someone else has already done it and there's a wealth of information out there.....just need to weed out the good stuff. Assume you have WB, if not then get it

schpenxel

Yeah, will have to have a wideband too so factor that into the cost. I'd get the pro version of HPT also, so you're going to be around $850-900 in wideband+HPT setup unless you find something used on eBay or something for less

But yeah, plenty of people have done it. If you expect to just plug it in and hit the "add a supercharger" button then you're in for a surprise, but there's nothing about it that most people can't learn IMO.

You can download the real HPTuners software (there's an editor and a scanner) to play with if you want. There's a "demo" version on their website but it's actually the real software, you just can't save or read/write files unless you have an interface. You can find tunes / logs all over HPTuners forum if you want to look through them just to check out what kind of stuff there is to play with

Make sure to change to advanced view first thing. edit, view, advanced. Otherwise it hides way too much stuff IMO

NJ_phil

Bwa ha ha
Is that next to the "Add a camshaft" button.?

schpenxel

It's on a different tab

Woodstoc

I think it's right next to the "oh crap, what was that noise" tab.

Pekka_Perkeles

I did. It was 10 years ago and I'm still learning. At least a bit here and there.

At that time (2007) it was just about HPT forum. Much of those discussions at that time are now either just ok, outdated - or plain wrong.

Nowadays the learning curve is way faster, since there are some very good training material available and for a very reasonable price (just google ERM performance).

Very good alternative is to start with a stock engine and just tuning it. But very often it just isn't viable anymore - for obvious reasons.

The worst alternative is to learn tuning with Forced Induction. So be careful.

Make sure you have friends with those owning dyno(s). You'll learn a lot with them without doing any tuning...

Milan

I would be happy to help you but you are going to have to be willing to learn and do the reading on your own.

Everyone always asks me how I learned to tune, and the answer is I do a ton of reading, then I go out and try it, log it, and analyze it afterwards. People think I'm just clicking buttons on the computer but they don't see the amount of time I've spent on the back end reading and researching.

Truth is like Pekka, I am still learning to this day. I actually was on the same forums as him 8+ years ago, picked up a ton along the way. Tuning is a process, it's never really done.

Who is tuning your car in Boise? I know it wasn't me lol

Twayneo1

Milan,
Thank you for the offer, so i have not been able to respond for a while, but i appreciate your willingness to help. I think what i am going to do is have my tuner give me my current tune, and the new tune I'm going to be doing soon with the headers, meth, and smaller pulley. I then will get a stock tune from someone else. I will get HPtuners and literally walk through and compare each of the tunes. If its alright when i get to that point and need some help ill PM' you. Since your in boise, we should definitely meet up sometime and go for a drive in the future. Id love to see your car looks awesome!

schpenxel

HPT repository has plenty of stock tunes and VCM Editor has a compare feature built in and will show deltas and compile a list of differences for you so you can see all of them

Twayneo1

well i finally was able to buy HPT pro along with a wideband. I am currently maf tuned, but i am being forced to go to speed density due to maxing out the maf. i have headers coming, meth installed, 3.4" pulley. I have been doing some reading. It looks like to go speed density i am going to do a custom 2bar os for the car (i have a new 2bar map).

I am currently planning on leaving the maf with the built in iat in the stream, and using only the iat. Ill eventually fully remove the maf and do my own iat. I found Schpenxel posted a copy of his stock tune which im currently walking through now until i get hpt and can download the current tune in my car.

Milan, Pekka, and Schpenxel if i get stuck and cant find my answer on the hptuners forum is it ok to contact you?

realcanuk

As every says the best way to learn is read a lot, experiment with small changes, and don't change anything unless you understand what the change is actually doing.

I thin the best way to tune is blended like it is stock, although a lot of guys just go speed density. Don't know your setup but I'd be surprised it your maxing out the maf.

Unreal

Maxing out the maf? Is it a ls2? I would just swap to a ls3/7 card style maf and you can make 1200+rwhp with ease.

Twayneo1

Yes it is an LS2!
I don't think Switching to an LS3 MAF will not solve the issue because the LS2 E40 ECM has a limitation itself and can only support 512 g/sec. At least that is what i have read. Unless there is a way to run an ls3 card style maf and support the higher frequencies?
I plan on doing a custom 2 bar os, i have a 2 bar MAP i bought to do the speed density.
I have read my only option is to go speed density. The tuner already had to raid the VE table the first time it was tuned and I had to but the larger pulley back on due to the maf maxing out on a 3.6" pulley.
My car was tuned with 8-9Lbs of boost with a 3.8", I'm going to a 3.4"(theoretical increase of 4 additional lbs, but headers should lower down a 1-2 lbs) from what i have been told.

I would definitely prefer tuning with a MAF but i think my ecm is going to screw me?

schpenxel

If you're hitting the airflow limit then tune can be scaled accordingly to get around that

Twayneo1

Ive seen some "patches" to get the frequency up to 15kHz, but outside of that i would assume you could calculate what should be in the VE table?

I really need to decide what I'm going to do, I've already put the meth nozzle in front of maf (assuming the maf wasn't going to be used, except the IAT). I noticed A&A have a new MAF Girdle i could buy if I for sure don't need to go to a SD tune.

I also just bought two aeroforce gauges and planned to use a new 2 bar map to read boost from the ecm/obd2. From what i gathered, if I am using the new 2bar map i will have to update to the custom 2 bar OS in the editor. I saw that i will have a boost referenced VE table. I don't know if i will be able to use the custom 2 bar OS with the existing MAF, or if the VE table referenced to MAF will even be available after upgrading the OS.

Twayneo1

I saw your post about doubling the stoich and halving the IFR. Im really considering just doing speed density. Ive never tuned before in my life so i might have someone do the initial sd tune then play around with it. I feel like i should be smart enough to do it myself though. I just need to decide what would be best for my car and learn.

schpenxel

Double stoich/half IFR is for using larger injectors

If you're hitting the frequency limit then scaling won't help

If you're hitting the airflow limit (i.e. MAF table is being maxed out) then scaling will help

I'd probably just do SD. Nothing wrong with running mixed mode like stated earlier but if you've already got the meth nozzle and stuff setup to spray on the MAF then I'd go with that

SD tuning isn't any different, just a lot more cells to adjust than a MAF table