bumpin96monte

I've got a 09 LS3 A6 (non Z51) with a handful of power related mods- A&A v3si, headers, and alkycontrol meth single nozzle on 100% meth. Currently on a 3.6" pulley which made about 600 whp. I'm looking for more power. I do have a 3.4" now and have run it (along with some race gas to prevent knock without having to retune), but I'd like more - never dynod it like this.

Currently running NT05Rs so it hooks just fine. It's mostly an occasional street car with maybe once or twice a year 1/2 mile. Also, the front main seal needs replaced which is pushing me towards a cam for adding power. It had a tiny leak from the day I got it before any mods. I put on a ATI balancer while doing the blower (worst decision even was not to replace it then), and of course it leaks a lot more afterwards. Eventually, I've got to pull that all back apart to change it, so I figure that's a good time for a cam swap. For the updated dyno tune, I'll just up the meth and run the 3.4" full time.

Looking into the cam for an auto, I know it's best to do a converter to match too. I would like a higher stall, but I'm not confident in being able to swap it myself. Also not super excited as it looks like itll double the cost of the project.

I dont care what kind of gas mileage it gets. I don't care a lot about how it sounds (certainly would prefer it not to sound stock, but not buying it for sound). Still has to be decent drivability.

My questions:
-Whats the most power I could get from a cam that'll still work with the stock converter?
-Any suggestions for a suggested shelf cam you've run with a centri and stock converter that I can look into?
-If I did a converter, what stall would you suggest for street / half mile?
-Suggestions for a shelf stock cam for a setup with a converter?
-Is it worth it to go the custom cam route (like a Pat G / BTR / etc)? I know this is probably the beat route either way, I like being able to hear / feel / read results on a cam before buying one and that's hard to do with a custom cam.



Thanks in advance for any advice!

sstonebreaker

I'm currently in the process of rebuilding the supercharged LS2 in my 2007 C6 manual trans. I have an A&A Vortech T-trim supercharger, and was running a Texas Speed NA cam that was 228/228. Made great power - 640 hp to the rear wheels on the stock long block. I hydrolocked the motor and basically trashed the short block.

So I'm building a stroked 402 ci LS2 with Frankenstein Engineering ported stock LS2 heads, FAST 102 intake, and a custom Frankenstein cam designed to go with the heads. I told Frank that I didn't care about peak horsepower, all I cared about was running 10.50's in August at the drag strip. They spec'd out a cam very similar to both the BTR and Comp centrifugal blower "truck" cams. I don't remember what the BTR cam spec'd out to exactly, but it was very similar to Comp's which is 228/242 at 0.050 on a 114 LSA. My cam will be similar to that as well but slightly different because it was optimized for the flow characteristics of the Frankenstein heads. You'd probably need a converter in the 2500-3000 stall range for a similar cam. Power will be in the 4500 to 6200 rpm range. Like I said, not a dyno queen, but enough to get the job done.

bumpin96monte

So I guess what I'm really trying to figure out here is how much power I'd be leaving on the table by getting a cam small enough that I could still use the stock converter.

I'm kind of in the same boat you mentioned, even if I went with a converter, I still wouldn't go crazy with some giant cam just for peak power numbers. So I'm wondering what the power difference is between a 'big' cam for a stock converter and a 'moderate' cam for an aftermarket converter. If the difference is only something like 25 hp, then the difference to me isnt worth all the extra work / cost.

In looking around, I came across the Tick LS3 stock stall cam (219/231, 619/585, 115) but I've also seen them post about a centri version of this (219/235, 619/610, 116). Anybody on here even ran either of these?

sstonebreaker

I wouldn't keep the stock converter in any case for two reasons. 1) The stock converters have a tendency to balloon over time. Get a converter with a billet cover, like a Yank or a Vigilante or whatever brand you prefer. 2) A high stall converter will add nearly as much to the car's performance as the supercharger, at least from a drag strip perspective. As an additional bonus, a high stall converter will soften the hit to the tires, making launching easier and more consistent, especially on street tires.

I would get a performance transmission build already. The stock trans will wear out pretty fast behind a boosted engine, and it's cheaper to build the trans now rather than wait for the stocker to blow up. You will also be able to plan on a converter replacement at the same time, so you won't have to pay for the labor twice.

I ran a 3500 stall Yank converter in my 96 impala for years. It was my daily driver. Modern converters are much more efficient than the older designs, and so driveability doesn't suffer nearly as much as the old days. I noticed three driveabilty changes: I had to depress the gas pedal a half inch more to get going, my city mileage went to crap, and my ET dropped by over a second and a half over stock just by installing the custom converter. Highway mileage doesn't change because modern converters lock up anyway.

BTR LS3 cam

bumpin96monte

Unfortunately doing a built trans isnt in the mod budget right now. $1k ish for a cam and replacing the seal is my target; adding another $1k for a converter (plus labor potentially) would be stretching it and would require pushing the project out a bit but isnt impossible if the power gain is worth it. Dumping a $5k+ transmission on there is well beyond what I'm looking to do this go around.

Honestly, the trans has been holding up fine so far. Since the blower, I'm a little over 3 years in on a stock trans w/ tune and no issues. I will say that I do absolutely zero dig racing (1/2 mile stuff is all rolls), so I'm sure that helps. I dont ever do 1/4 mile racing.

I do certainly understand its not going to last forever though. I am budgeting to pull it for a rebuild in a few years (and will certainly do a converter then if I dont before).

CI GS

Don’t waste your money on a built transmission. The stock trans can handle a lot of power, once you keep the fluid cool and get the tune done properly. It seems from what I’ve seen on here that most folks who’ve rebuilt these transmissions have grenaded them, some multiple times, simply because the reason their trans failed in the first place was a bad tune. The fastest 6L80 C6 on these forums is running mid 8s with a trans with stock GM internals. But he has one of the best A6 tuners (Bluecat) tuning his car, so that makes the point right there.
I would agree that you should change the converter to something like a FTI or Circle D ~3200 stall with a triple clutch. With the right tune, you won’t notice the change until you nail the throttle.
Talk with BTR about what cam you need, or get Pat G to spec you one. If you don’t want to experience an idle surge or lope when you’re idling through a parking lot etc., then try to keep the overlap at zero or less.
my 2 cents, fwiw...

bumpin96monte

I see that recommendation a lot across all cam threads. The Tick stock stall cam claims 50 hp which seems in the same ballpark as moderately sized cams for use with a converter. Is there really that big of a power difference between the two?

I'm not at all against doing a converter, just would rather not do one right now unless the power gains are notably different between the two.

I have thought about buying a custom cam spec to see what they come up with. The sticking point is what to put in for the converter. I'd ideally like to keep it stock, but I'd also hate to go through the hassle of a cam swap if it's only going to make 25 hp. That's why the Tick cam claiming 50 sparked my interest.

I dont mind some idle surge or lope. It's just a play toy, so I'm more open to that than I would be on my DD. But at the same time, I know it's just a stock LS3 with a tiny blower. It doesn't seem like it is really necessary to get some big nasty cam just to get a few extra horsepower.

sstonebreaker

The converter doesn't add power. What it does is change the way power gets applied to the wheels, resulting in a MUCH faster 0-60 time. And don't ignore the fun of pulling into a gas station with a rumpety cam going potato-potato-potato and the highway patrol officer at the next pump coming over to listen to and complement the car. The converter will be worth every penny, both from a performance standpoint and for increasing the range of cam you will be able to choose.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do the converter FIRST because it opens up cam possibilities for later. But if you have your heart set on a cam, I'd follow CI's advice and have BTR or somebody spec out a cam for you. Or you could go cheap cam for now and get a GM LS9 cam, pushrods and springs, and then once you have the converter, go for a more radical cam.

bumpin96monte

I understand a converter itself doesn't add power. What I'm asking is how much power can I make with a cam designed to make the most power with a stock converter vs a moderate cam designed to work with an aftermarket converter. There are plenty of dyno threads of cam + converter, but how about cam only (with a blower)? Trying to understand the magnitude of that delta to see if its worthwhile to more than double the cost of the project.

Also, as noted above, the 0-60 improvement doesn't matter at all to me. I dont dig race, I dont 1/4 mile race. It's a street cruiser with occasional highway pulls and 1/2 roll racing at an air strip.

I also dont really care much about getting a bigger cam just for the sound. I'd certainly like for it not to sound bone stock, but being a supercharged cam, it shouldn't have to be super nasty just to make power. I've got another play toy car with a big cam if I'm really in the mood for that kind of thing, my focus on the vette is more on power than sound.

sstonebreaker

Which is why I suggested the LS9 cam. It's mass produced by GM so it's both cheap and high quality, and its wide LSA minimizes the cam surge so that it will work fine with a stock converter. The CTS-V guys say it will add as much as 65 rwhp over the LSA cam on an otherwise stock LSA motor with a pulley upgrade.

harleyreb1

I have the BTR LS3 Centri cam installed in my 2010 auto w/stock stall and it drives very nice and pulls from 1000 rpm to redline with no hesitation. Tune is crucial however, don't go cheap or shadetree there. Sounds amazing as well! car with only Kooks headers made 403 rwhp and after the cam swap made 456. Adding blower here soon.

bumpin96monte

I've definitely considered that, and it's certainly on the list of contenders. I dont mind spending the extra for an aftermarket cam or custom cam though if the power gains are notable.

bumpin96monte

Nice, thanks for the feedback! I plan to use the same person to update the tune as I did when I put the blower on.

sstonebreaker

Sounds like you're suffering from too many choices syndrome. Just pick one and go with it. The top 2 or 3 choices aren't going to vary very much HP wise. Harley says the BTR cam works fine with his stock converter, that would probably be my choice then since it has more ultimate potential than the LS9 cam. Plus I've seen Brian Tooley's cam lectures on YouTube and he really knows his stuff.

bumpin96monte

That's certainly a problem with the LS in general, there are tons of options for just about everything. Trying to wade through all the info takes some time.

I'm in no hurry just to hurry up and pick one today though. A cam is a big enough pain to swap that I want to make sure I've done enough research to pick one that's best for my setup. I do think you're right that an aftermarket cam would have better potential than a factory LS9 cam.

It seems like these are probably my 3 favored options at the moment:
-BTR centri cam
-Tick stock stall centri cam
-BTR or Pat G custom

As noted before, I tend to lean towards shelf stock cams as it's nice to be able to dig up videos and dyno results. Kind of thinking of just buying custom specs to see how that compares to the other 2.

realcanuk

You don't need a big cam with a blower and the right cam with a stock converter can work very well. I would contact PAT G. and have him spec out a cam based on your setup and intended use.

bumpin96monte

Just submitted for a Pat G cam to see what specs he comes up with.

realcanuk

Smart move. As long as you were clear with what you want, what he spec's will give you just that.

schpenxel

I used Pat G as well. Basically got a 220/240, .600’ish lift, 117. I would go slightly more aggressive LSA wise if I were doing it over again. But not too crazy.

Ant-Man

I'm runn Arun/BTR CCP Jam cam.