My Combo ?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 310
Likes: 41
From: Chicagoland
My Combo ?
Few months ago I bought a 28000 mile C6 base A6. It came with a basic 3.8" pullied EForce scharger and Borla ATAK mufflers. Then I installed Kooks hdrs. and non catted H pipe. With the 5psi boost it made 440 whp. Max tq was 450 @ 4600rpm. Average tq is 422.
As it is, driveability has not changed at all from stock.
I dont really know but I doubt it can out run a stock 2016 Mustang 5.0 or SCAT Dodge.
Right now the car is up at Speed Inc. near Chicago getting trans service and TOC lines at the header collector needs adjusting and they will closely inspect the car.
I have 3.5" and 3.25" blower pulleys for more power and I want E85 since its easily available.
Tony at Speed suggests the following before more boost and E.
A&A high capacity Twin Pump fuel sys.
Inj. Dynamics 1050X injectors.
DSX flex fuel kit for E85 (I asked for E since its avalble close by)
Then the smaller pulley and tune.
From there and since I dont want a higher stall they suggest a mild cam of 222/228 dur. .566/.571 lift with an 114 LSA with spring and trunion upgrade, etc.
This should make for a reliable true street car with a little extra power.
Comments
As it is, driveability has not changed at all from stock.
I dont really know but I doubt it can out run a stock 2016 Mustang 5.0 or SCAT Dodge.
Right now the car is up at Speed Inc. near Chicago getting trans service and TOC lines at the header collector needs adjusting and they will closely inspect the car.
I have 3.5" and 3.25" blower pulleys for more power and I want E85 since its easily available.
Tony at Speed suggests the following before more boost and E.
A&A high capacity Twin Pump fuel sys.
Inj. Dynamics 1050X injectors.
DSX flex fuel kit for E85 (I asked for E since its avalble close by)
Then the smaller pulley and tune.
From there and since I dont want a higher stall they suggest a mild cam of 222/228 dur. .566/.571 lift with an 114 LSA with spring and trunion upgrade, etc.
This should make for a reliable true street car with a little extra power.
Comments
Drifting
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 391
From: Martinez CA
Those fuel system items will all be required to be upgraded if increasing boost and switching to e85. You'll likely run out of pump and injector with those upgrades.
That's a pretty small cam for all of that work. If replacing the cam, folks here will rightly recommend a harmonic balancer upgrade. And perhaps an overdriven pulley, too LOL. A cam upgrade is a personal choice, I'd spend sufficient time on that decision prior to making the purchase. For $25, one of the best guys (Pat G.) can recommend a custom grind if you're interested.
DSX flex is required (you could then also run non E85 fuel if required).
If you typically like racing from a dig, a converter will help lots.
Others with much more knowledge will chime more.
PS Just a wild guess, but with those mods, I think that would put at >600whp, depending on pulley sizing and cam choice...
That's a pretty small cam for all of that work. If replacing the cam, folks here will rightly recommend a harmonic balancer upgrade. And perhaps an overdriven pulley, too LOL. A cam upgrade is a personal choice, I'd spend sufficient time on that decision prior to making the purchase. For $25, one of the best guys (Pat G.) can recommend a custom grind if you're interested.
DSX flex is required (you could then also run non E85 fuel if required).
If you typically like racing from a dig, a converter will help lots.
Others with much more knowledge will chime more.
PS Just a wild guess, but with those mods, I think that would put at >600whp, depending on pulley sizing and cam choice...
Last edited by Chiselchst; May 20, 2020 at 02:58 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 833
Likes: 176
From: Indianapolis Indiana area
Those fuel system items will all be required to be upgraded if increasing boost and switching to e85. You'll likely run out of pump and injector with those upgrades.
That's a pretty small cam for all of that work. If replacing the cam, folks here will rightly recommend a harmonic balancer upgrade. And perhaps an overdriven pulley, too LOL. A cam upgrade is a personal choice, I'd spend sufficient time on that decision prior to making the purchase. For $25, one of the best guys (Pat G.) can recommend a custom grind if you're interested.
DSX flex is required (you could then also run non E85 fuel if required).
If you typically like racing from a dig, a converter will help lots.
Others with much more knowledge will chime more.
PS Just a wild guess, but with those mods, I think that would put at >600whp, depending on pulley sizing and cam choice...
That's a pretty small cam for all of that work. If replacing the cam, folks here will rightly recommend a harmonic balancer upgrade. And perhaps an overdriven pulley, too LOL. A cam upgrade is a personal choice, I'd spend sufficient time on that decision prior to making the purchase. For $25, one of the best guys (Pat G.) can recommend a custom grind if you're interested.
DSX flex is required (you could then also run non E85 fuel if required).
If you typically like racing from a dig, a converter will help lots.
Others with much more knowledge will chime more.
PS Just a wild guess, but with those mods, I think that would put at >600whp, depending on pulley sizing and cam choice...
I agree with you on the 600+ whp. That would make it a fun ride for sure! You'll need better tires!
Safety Car
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,633
Likes: 1,818
From: Erlanger, Kentucky
Few months ago I bought a 28000 mile C6 base A6. It came with a basic 3.8" pullied EForce scharger and Borla ATAK mufflers. Then I installed Kooks hdrs. and non catted H pipe. With the 5psi boost it made 440 whp. Max tq was 450 @ 4600rpm. Average tq is 422.
As it is, driveability has not changed at all from stock.
I dont really know but I doubt it can out run a stock 2016 Mustang 5.0 or SCAT Dodge.
Right now the car is up at Speed Inc. near Chicago getting trans service and TOC lines at the header collector needs adjusting and they will closely inspect the car.
I have 3.5" and 3.25" blower pulleys for more power and I want E85 since its easily available.
Tony at Speed suggests the following before more boost and E.
A&A high capacity Twin Pump fuel sys.
Inj. Dynamics 1050X injectors.
DSX flex fuel kit for E85 (I asked for E since its avalble close by)
Then the smaller pulley and tune.
From there and since I dont want a higher stall they suggest a mild cam of 222/228 dur. .566/.571 lift with an 114 LSA with spring and trunion upgrade, etc.
This should make for a reliable true street car with a little extra power.
Comments
As it is, driveability has not changed at all from stock.
I dont really know but I doubt it can out run a stock 2016 Mustang 5.0 or SCAT Dodge.
Right now the car is up at Speed Inc. near Chicago getting trans service and TOC lines at the header collector needs adjusting and they will closely inspect the car.
I have 3.5" and 3.25" blower pulleys for more power and I want E85 since its easily available.
Tony at Speed suggests the following before more boost and E.
A&A high capacity Twin Pump fuel sys.
Inj. Dynamics 1050X injectors.
DSX flex fuel kit for E85 (I asked for E since its avalble close by)
Then the smaller pulley and tune.
From there and since I dont want a higher stall they suggest a mild cam of 222/228 dur. .566/.571 lift with an 114 LSA with spring and trunion upgrade, etc.
This should make for a reliable true street car with a little extra power.
Comments
Definitely your next upgrade should probably be some much gripy-er tires.
Drifting
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,525
Likes: 391
From: Martinez CA
That's correct...my bad...thanks
Definitely worth it.
_______________
Just as a data point - not sure what injectors the Eforce kit with, but my Magnuson Heartbeat came with LS9 injectors. I was at about max injector (LS9) with 91 pump gas, at 537whp (I was running a Z06 pump, on a KB BAP). When I switched to E85 and more mods/boost, I upgraded to Fore fuel system with bigger pumps, and the same injectors, ID1050X.
Traction will be your new concern, not a (typical) Mustang...
Definitely worth it.
Just as a data point - not sure what injectors the Eforce kit with, but my Magnuson Heartbeat came with LS9 injectors. I was at about max injector (LS9) with 91 pump gas, at 537whp (I was running a Z06 pump, on a KB BAP). When I switched to E85 and more mods/boost, I upgraded to Fore fuel system with bigger pumps, and the same injectors, ID1050X.
Traction will be your new concern, not a (typical) Mustang...
Few months ago I bought a 28000 mile C6 base A6. It came with a basic 3.8" pullied EForce scharger and Borla ATAK mufflers. Then I installed Kooks hdrs. and non catted H pipe. With the 5psi boost it made 440 whp. Max tq was 450 @ 4600rpm. Average tq is 422.
As it is, driveability has not changed at all from stock.
I dont really know but I doubt it can out run a stock 2016 Mustang 5.0 or SCAT Dodge.
Right now the car is up at Speed Inc. near Chicago getting trans service and TOC lines at the header collector needs adjusting and they will closely inspect the car.
I have 3.5" and 3.25" blower pulleys for more power and I want E85 since its easily available.
Tony at Speed suggests the following before more boost and E.
A&A high capacity Twin Pump fuel sys.
Inj. Dynamics 1050X injectors.
DSX flex fuel kit for E85 (I asked for E since its avalble close by)
Then the smaller pulley and tune.
From there and since I dont want a higher stall they suggest a mild cam of 222/228 dur. .566/.571 lift with an 114 LSA with spring and trunion upgrade, etc.
This should make for a reliable true street car with a little extra power.
Comments
As it is, driveability has not changed at all from stock.
I dont really know but I doubt it can out run a stock 2016 Mustang 5.0 or SCAT Dodge.
Right now the car is up at Speed Inc. near Chicago getting trans service and TOC lines at the header collector needs adjusting and they will closely inspect the car.
I have 3.5" and 3.25" blower pulleys for more power and I want E85 since its easily available.
Tony at Speed suggests the following before more boost and E.
A&A high capacity Twin Pump fuel sys.
Inj. Dynamics 1050X injectors.
DSX flex fuel kit for E85 (I asked for E since its avalble close by)
Then the smaller pulley and tune.
From there and since I dont want a higher stall they suggest a mild cam of 222/228 dur. .566/.571 lift with an 114 LSA with spring and trunion upgrade, etc.
This should make for a reliable true street car with a little extra power.
Comments
Last edited by Chiselchst; May 20, 2020 at 04:20 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 310
Likes: 41
From: Chicagoland
Those fuel system items will all be required to be upgraded if increasing boost and switching to e85. You'll likely run out of pump and injector with those upgrades.
That's a pretty small cam for all of that work. If replacing the cam, folks here will rightly recommend a harmonic balancer upgrade. And perhaps an overdriven pulley, too LOL. A cam upgrade is a personal choice, I'd spend sufficient time on that decision prior to making the purchase. For $25, one of the best guys (Pat G.) can recommend a custom grind if you're interested.
DSX flex is required (you could then also run non E85 fuel if required).
If you typically like racing from a dig, a converter will help lots.
Others with much more knowledge will chime more.
PS Just a wild guess, but with those mods, I think that would put at >600whp, depending on pulley sizing and cam choice...
That's a pretty small cam for all of that work. If replacing the cam, folks here will rightly recommend a harmonic balancer upgrade. And perhaps an overdriven pulley, too LOL. A cam upgrade is a personal choice, I'd spend sufficient time on that decision prior to making the purchase. For $25, one of the best guys (Pat G.) can recommend a custom grind if you're interested.
DSX flex is required (you could then also run non E85 fuel if required).
If you typically like racing from a dig, a converter will help lots.
Others with much more knowledge will chime more.
PS Just a wild guess, but with those mods, I think that would put at >600whp, depending on pulley sizing and cam choice...
Cam choice. I told Speed I did not want to change stall speed and durability & longevity trumps maximum output.
1/4 miles times are not the priority. Im finished with sitting in the heat waiting for my class to be called chasing points.
I wanna relax But! At 64 y o I still enjoy rollin up on someone for an impromptu 40 to ???
I love it!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 833
Likes: 176
From: Indianapolis Indiana area
Ok. It must be common knowledge bcuz you and the experts at the shop are saying exactly the same thing. Thanks.
Cam choice. I told Speed I did not want to change stall speed and durability & longevity trumps maximum output.
1/4 miles times are not the priority. Im finished with sitting in the heat waiting for my class to be called chasing points.
I wanna relax But! At 64 y o I still enjoy rollin up on someone for an impromptu 40 to ???
I love it!
Cam choice. I told Speed I did not want to change stall speed and durability & longevity trumps maximum output.
1/4 miles times are not the priority. Im finished with sitting in the heat waiting for my class to be called chasing points.
I wanna relax But! At 64 y o I still enjoy rollin up on someone for an impromptu 40 to ???
I love it!
Last edited by m60gov20; May 20, 2020 at 04:31 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,997
Likes: 1,681
From: Southeast TX
A much more capable cam would be a 222/238 116+1 with lift about .615 on both sides. Similar overlap, so manners and need for a higher stall speed converter should be similar to your recommended cam. If you're trying to make decent power, you don't need to install a tiny cam like that. I'm not a fan of the really wide LSA PD blower cams. They make a good top end number, but feel a little lazy out of boost to me. Cam swap is a fairly involved and expensive undertaking. Might as well get a little bang for your buck. The cam I recommended would have a bit of a choppy idle, but no bad manners or crappy fuel eco with a decent tune. Pat G is a pro at speccing cams. I'm just an old redneck that knows what he likes in a camshaft.
A little more camshaft will also lower your boost a little. Less boost is good for intake air temps and that is what's going to limit you anyway. In your shoes, I'd do the O/D crank pulley and 3.25" blower pulley. That's assuming flex fuel. I can promise you it won't be boring.
A little more camshaft will also lower your boost a little. Less boost is good for intake air temps and that is what's going to limit you anyway. In your shoes, I'd do the O/D crank pulley and 3.25" blower pulley. That's assuming flex fuel. I can promise you it won't be boring.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,997
Likes: 1,681
From: Southeast TX
If you're a little squeamish about .615 lift lobes on the cam, you can always get Cam Motion to cut you a lower lift version. Even at .615 lift, their cam lobes are very valve train friendly. With BTR .650 lift springs, you won't have any issues.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 337
Likes: 67
From: Charlotte NC
I have no experience with positive displacement superchargers but 440 whp seems kinda low for a forced induction C6. I made 440 whp with headers and a BTR NA4 Cam, and 600 whp at 5 psi with a BTR Turbo 2 Cam, UPP kit, and 93 octane. I'm going in for a retune next month for 12 psi and e85. The fuel setup sounds solid, if the car isn't your daily driver I would say opt for 1200 cc injectors and leave yourself a little breathing room. I'm running 1000 cc injectors now and my tuner says I'm nearing my output limit, I wish I had opted for larger the first time around but injectors over the 1000 range tend to have poor drivability in the low rpm range (they don't like being at low duty cyle for extended periods). Oh, and +1 on a new harmonic balancer and ARP crank bolt if they're installing a cam, if your balancer isn't having issues now it will very soon.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,997
Likes: 1,681
From: Southeast TX
I have no experience with positive displacement superchargers but 440 whp seems kinda low for a forced induction C6. I made 440 whp with headers and a BTR NA4 Cam, and 600 whp at 5 psi with a BTR Turbo 2 Cam, UPP kit, and 93 octane. I'm going in for a retune next month for 12 psi and e85. The fuel setup sounds solid, if the car isn't your daily driver I would say opt for 1200 cc injectors and leave yourself a little breathing room. I'm running 1000 cc injectors now and my tuner says I'm nearing my output limit, I wish I had opted for larger the first time around but injectors over the 1000 range tend to have poor drivability in the low rpm range (they don't like being at low duty cyle for extended periods). Oh, and +1 on a new harmonic balancer and ARP crank bolt if they're installing a cam, if your balancer isn't having issues now it will very soon.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 337
Likes: 67
From: Charlotte NC
He picked up a hundred HP over stock. A pound of boost is usually worth 20hp on PD blowers. So 5 psi should be good for a hundred. He just needs a smaller blower pulley and/or a bigger crank pulley (spin the blower faster). Also, more octane (E85) which will allow more spark timing. Although not measurable, E85 should cool the intake charge as it goes into the cylinder head. All kinds of good stuff happens with E85.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,997
Likes: 1,681
From: Southeast TX
Like I said I'm not super familiar with PD blowers and power figures, I've always used centrifugal blowers or turbos with a preference for the latter. In those applications you can usually calculate power output as a percentage of volumetric efficiency over BAR (1 BAR = 14 psi, 5 psi = .36 BAR) which would put him around 480 whp assuming literally nothing else was done to the car. Just seems like a lot of work for cam only numbers.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 310
Likes: 41
From: Chicagoland
OPs Maximum power.
439.9 max rwHP at 5 psi does seem low.
It makes max 449rwtq at 3300rpm and stays up there all the way to 5800 where they shut down. (Idont kno why)
Great for a tow truck.
I will tell the shop I want the most cam that the stock converter can work well with for highway acceleration, like from 40mph on up.
3200 miles ago a new stock balancer & bolt was pinned when the E Force was installed.
Along with cam installation we'll do a good balancer, some sort of rocker trunion upgrade and a fan bypass switch that allows me to run the rad. fan as needed.
Im thinking about draining most of the DexCool out of heatx for distilled water & WaterWetter. Come Fall switch it back to DexCool.
As mentioned, a much bigger heatx coolant tank would help.
In recent 60 deg weather after an hr of driving then repeated street pulls reaching a whopping 7psi boost the heat exchanger is quite cool to touch.
Before headers and 3" non catted H pipe it made 7 to 10psi with the 3.85 pulley. I'll post a pic of the gauge.
I dont wanna be the old guy in a slow base Vette.
Comments.
439.9 max rwHP at 5 psi does seem low.
It makes max 449rwtq at 3300rpm and stays up there all the way to 5800 where they shut down. (Idont kno why)
Great for a tow truck.
I will tell the shop I want the most cam that the stock converter can work well with for highway acceleration, like from 40mph on up.
3200 miles ago a new stock balancer & bolt was pinned when the E Force was installed.
Along with cam installation we'll do a good balancer, some sort of rocker trunion upgrade and a fan bypass switch that allows me to run the rad. fan as needed.
Im thinking about draining most of the DexCool out of heatx for distilled water & WaterWetter. Come Fall switch it back to DexCool.
As mentioned, a much bigger heatx coolant tank would help.
In recent 60 deg weather after an hr of driving then repeated street pulls reaching a whopping 7psi boost the heat exchanger is quite cool to touch.
Before headers and 3" non catted H pipe it made 7 to 10psi with the 3.85 pulley. I'll post a pic of the gauge.
I dont wanna be the old guy in a slow base Vette.
Comments.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,376
Likes: 1,118
IF it were me, based on the OP’s stated intended use, and assuming that Rodney is right and it’s a LS2, I would:
- remove the E-Force and sell it;
- install a cam with specs along the lines of 227/ 238* with ~.600 lift and 113 LSA;
- install a set of GM CNC ported LS3 heads with BTR .660 springs (you can get them assembled from BTR);
- get a fully assembled stock LS3 intake from any vendor;
- install new oil pump and a good balancer;
- install a good (Yank, Circle D or FTI) ~3200 stall converter and a decent trans oil cooler, and,
- find a reputable tuner that knows how to tune the 6L80 trans.
Then the only thing left for me to do would be to drive it to Texas, find Rodney, and whoop his ***.
- remove the E-Force and sell it;
- install a cam with specs along the lines of 227/ 238* with ~.600 lift and 113 LSA;
- install a set of GM CNC ported LS3 heads with BTR .660 springs (you can get them assembled from BTR);
- get a fully assembled stock LS3 intake from any vendor;
- install new oil pump and a good balancer;
- install a good (Yank, Circle D or FTI) ~3200 stall converter and a decent trans oil cooler, and,
- find a reputable tuner that knows how to tune the 6L80 trans.
Then the only thing left for me to do would be to drive it to Texas, find Rodney, and whoop his ***.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 337
Likes: 67
From: Charlotte NC
Mine is also an LS2. Although my tuner uses a Dynojet and always has so before/after comparisons are accurate. OP might be measuring on a Mustang Dyno, which would explain the unusually low numbers.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 310
Likes: 41
From: Chicagoland
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 337
Likes: 67
From: Charlotte NC
Stock cats are probably your biggest enemy right now. I would replace the whole exhaust system with 3 inch or else it''ll start to choke at just before the 600 whp mark. If you're in a state that requires cats for emissions, I would get catted headers (hinson makes decent ones for not a lot of money) or switch to Z06 manifolds/cats/H pipe with a compatible 3" axle back. I'm running a Z06 H-pipe from the turbo downpipes and Blackheart 3" axleback.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 337
Likes: 67
From: Charlotte NC
In my experience with Borla ATAK they're already a 3 inch axle back with a 2.5 inch reducer for the base models so you could cut the reducer off and weld a 3 inch OD flange there or call a Borla supplier and have them send you the Z06 over axle pipes for them and it'll fit the Z06 H pipe.