My cars finally being finished up at but we have a hickup at American Heritage Performance

Lets solve this one together!!!!!!!!






Looks pretty good! Engine Dyno'd good without the whipple,
but there is a minor issue getting the whipple tune running.

I am looking for people who have dealt with Whipples, or I guess other Superchargers to trouble shoot this.

Remember, I live in California

I think it was supposed to come with a handheld Superchips handheld with a calibration when I bought it in 2020. Apparently, now it comes with an RTD where you send them the base tune to be modded and sent back. Matching a template, as I think they are changing their ways of doing things. But I don't do this for a living. Or know their process, or changing process.

According to whipple and thier logs, they state that the tune they provided should work fine, and the issue appears based on the tune logs that it appears to be something before the throttle body.

Implying bad Maf sensor or not enough air coming in. However it was designed to work with the stock intake. They said it could even be vacuum leak or something stupid throwing everything off. Which makes sense. And we all have seen a million times on newer cars with the finicky computers, when something is a little off, like a vacuum leak.

American Heritage thinks it's a bad tune itself. And that the problem is not with the engine, but the tune. With the whipple tune on the car, it will run, but stalls out at idle. They have said they've gone through things and can't find an engine issue. Vaccum, or anything else. And they have checked the fuel pressure for proper pressure and it is good,

After speaking with Whipple and the Tuning, they state the logs seem to be pointing towards the intake side. However there isn't much complexity to the intake. It is a factory sized plastic box with a maf sensor and that is it. Obviously the Maf sensor working within the range of the factory volume in which has not changed and of course a small varying degree that the computer can deal with. And I'm assuming since this kit is 50 states legal, that it was designed to work on a Factory volume.

This suggesting that really before the throttlebody the only possible thing could be a bad MAF sensor, While I don't have any scanned log data for you at the moment, I need some serious people who have dealt with this issue. For some opinions on what they think might be going on.

While I've read the whipple tune is crap. It might be, but it should be good enough to run the car safely and without stalling out. So why is it stalling out, and what is the issue? Could use some help on this from some experienced people because no one seems to know what it is!

And please, no lame 10 year old ENRAGED competition freaks, like Damon Riggins, Brian Weaver, Shane Weeks, Joel litmans who get into things to destroy them for their own personal gain. Or the sick masses with my sick father trying to cover up his dirty little secrets

Decent car enthusiasts who want to give the car community a good name so we can all benefit and keep it going on what little is left and dwindling fast!

 

If the tuner is convinced it's a problem with the tune, why can't they just tune it? If they can fix the tune, it will prove it's a Whipple issue. While I know that won't be CARB legal, but then you could go back to Whipple with the issues found. If the tuner can't fix the issue with the tune, there is something simple that's missing or an issue.

 

it's a PICKLE isn't it!

well I guess this is the grey area that is confusing. first off, it's not a canned tune. However whipple states when they mod the tune, it's pretty close to a canned tune. You upload your base tune, they send it back. And it has to fit within CARB compliance.

Does this leave room for error. or even disgruntled employees, or hate of a customers, or changing factors. DEFINITLY!

And think about this! since CARB is tightening up the tune ordinances. Now that leaves room for all the criminals to go crazy on everyone just trying to do some minor dialing of things in. Not calling anyone a criminal here. But the whole tuning thing is pretty harmless and people are just tweaking things better. Especially hearing stories of ls's getting over 26 mpg on better tunes and such.

Kind of like gun laws. You take away purchase and registration of guns. Things get worse. and then the only people that have guns are the criminals, and it increases gun running, and their is a higher sales of automatic weapons. Even though I'm not into guns despite my father toy gun frame jobs with LAPD and the things he did to his mercedes when I was a kid. It all comes down to, when control gets too TIGHT! what happens? things go crazy because people want room to be people. And it creates chaos and insanity!

SO READ THOSE BOOKS! Despite what Adolf Hitler says! LOL

So the slightest wrong mod can throw off the tune, and give you the wrong checksums. My guys say, they have gone through the car, no leaks, fuel pressure fine. And are at the end of their rope, and are frusterated.

Whipple states that it's hardly ever the tune. Usually an issue with the engine.
However whipple is not provided a canned unchanged tune. They ask you to upload the firmware, they mod it and send it back.

Now has the 2013 corvette configuration changed since then? No!

However some data logs show something might be off on the intake side. Even though the only thing I can see it would be is a bad MAF sensor.

I'm not savey enough on the tune side to know. And I am in the process to get the data logs, to see or have others take a look. And I like everyone else is clear on a lot of the new 2021 obnoxious crap.

But my guys say the issue is the tune, and whipple thinks the issue is the engine. Vacuum leak or bad sensor. And the issue seems to be 2 parties not wanting to dedicate the time to work it out. or frusterated. Forcing me to step in and figure out what they hell is going on.

So we all come down to one thing.

WHAT SPECIFICALLY, and EXACTLY is the reason that tune won't run? And what's the best way to get that answer without people being pissed off it's a lot of work to figure out!

Example. you have a bad engine, you have a bad tune, is a very non specific answer to the problem making it unsolvable

And usually when I bring my car into a shop, they charge me $100 to diagnose, and they know based on SPECIFICS!

 

Ok, so another mechanic just pointed out something that most likely is the problem. Which was they could not get the intake to fit right due to it being too big. But I guess their focus was a little backwards. Which is the angle of the throttle body mouth to the intake mouth. And the fact that the velocity is creating turbulance because they aren't KISSING correctly and evently creating turbulance, and air restriction. In essence, changing the VOLUME, of the MAF sensor.

Angle, angle, always a Star Auto Haus, GABBY ANGLE! with Dr Ronald Berry Perelman! :P~~~~~

So stop throwing wrenches at me, and loostening lug nuts on cars while asking me to drive chuck norries's mercedes home to him while trying to kill me! After hiring me!

As I have been reading about turbulance and why they use speed density tuning with IAT sendoes instead on forced induction engines. However it wasn't connecting in my brain due to lack of experience.

I mean these 1968 350, and 454 chevy's are a lil diff! without dem computers! in 1988

In order to run, you must first learn to walk. Not told your not allowed to WALK, but you had better RUN! (With Jason Perelman and Psychotic Friends)

After he pointed it out. it makes perfect sense why the car would stall on idle and be fine at highter rpm with the whipple tune. I also don't know why when I sent whipple the picture they said it was fine. Being that they have installed like 10K of these things on cars.





Now look at that angle. As I am told the intakes are tempermental on these things with the MAF sensors, especially with forced induction. What is everyones opinion on weather or not this would make the engine stall now and then on idle with the whipple tune?

The other issue is the damn hood doesn't close like this!






I did go out and buy a used intake for $25 and shave off the outside front parts for them to use. However they wanted to deal with that later. Which I believe would have solved the problem. So putting on an intake that is level, the hood closes, and the mouth's line up seems to make sense as a priority. But they want to get it dialed in first. I am guessing thus solving the issue.


















Do you like my feet?

I still need to get the scan data logs but whipple told me the logs suggested that the issue was with the intake as well. So Corvette people who have dealt with MAF sensors, intakes, forced inductions, and tunes.

OPINIONS PLEASE! Do you think this is the issue? Do you have similar intake stories with your cars?

Eleanors life is at stake!!!!!!!!!!!
So lets all get together and solve this!

And join the SAVE A VETTE foundation

While Checksums still might be of discussion due to the whipple tune process. I am guessing this is the PRIMARY stalling out issue at idle.

 

We did tune it and get it to run normal with our tune. Flash the Whipple tune back on and it falls on its face . So yes we did prove by our tuner tuning it and it running correctly with our tune that the Whipple tune is in fact the issue.
We covered this with the OP many times already. The Whipple tune is the problem!

 

Vertigo262: we tried everything to get the intake to sit correctly and for whatever reason it does not. We even removed the large stands Whipple sent with the kit to hold the intake up but it made no difference. The air intake still sat way high like in the pic. The kit is installed as per Whipple instructions. The intake hits the shroud which causes it to sit high. The shroud can be moved or cut due to the parts of the Whipple kit located under it. We also asked Whipple about this in our may emails with them and they said its fine although we thought it personal looked weird and is not what we have seen with other Whipple kits we have installed or worked on in the past. Thing is there is not much we can do to correct it due to the Whipple kit.
We also thought that might be an issue with why the Whipple tune falls on its face but our tuner being able to get the car to run and drive as it should disproved that theory. It may not be ideal but its not the reason the Whipple tune falls on its face.
With the Whipple tune you slightly rev the car it wants to stall. Then if you move the car forward or backward even 1mph it and rev it just like you did when it was sitting still it completely falls on its face with not even the slightest attempt to catch itself. Our tuner had no problem getting the car to ide, run and drive correctly with his tune. The issue is the Whipple tune for whatever reason

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

TUNED FOR WHAT?

And I'm not pointing fingers here. And I know you know how to build engines. Don't think I don't.

I will even state for the record "American Heritage Knows their sh***t when building engines. And I've been extremely impressed. But we have a bug in the code as they say in the computer world."

And we don't live in a perfect world
(Hopefully not Mike Huntley and his Yellow Bug)

(Trying to solve a problem or an extremely large investment or it could sit unused in a garage, or worse)

I'm trying to solve an issue. TUNED FOR WHAT?
It needs to be tuned to pass smog, and the whipple tune passes smog!

That is the issue! (Not speaking from experience, speaking from 3rd party advice) and if the issue is it stalling out from lack of volume to the intake based on Mikes statement about the scan data, and Jakes conversation about how finicky the intakes are with volume.

And a 3rd party telling me he thinks that is the problem with the whipple tune.

But technically I can pop a map sensor on the intake and it's TUNED for a speed velocity, and your Tuners tune won't work correct? So correct me if I'm wrong. TUNED for what? the TUNE is RELATIVE to what you are trying to accomplish correct?

Not saying your doing anything right or wrong. Theres just certain paramters that must be met. Same paramaters that have been since day one. However things changed in 2021. No ones to blame on that. And I'm focusing on fixing the issue. Not mad at you at all.

And also, aside from it's the tune or it's the engine. What is the SPECIFIC diagnosed issue? Not enough intake volume? Timing? Air/Fuel Ratios, Fuel Trims, O2 sensor off? This is the problem at queston. Not the tune is right vs the engine is right.

Example, what is the SPECIFIC problem of WHY whipples tune won't work? to high compression, to low compression, too much fuel, and not enough air, or vice versa?
and as far as whipple goes. I'm assuming that the 2013 427 vette stock configuration has not changed in 9 years. Meaning that the tune they have handed out should be identical for the last 9 years. To meet the stock configuration.

And if this tune can't work on the existing configuration then that is what I need to know to move to the next step.
Areas I don't know about on that level or have the ability to scan the data and look even if I did.

And with a Specific, we can troubleshoot!
Example, Girl wants to break of with boy? WHY? your a bad person. Ok, can't work with that. Girl wants to break up with boy, "I feel uncomfortable when you tease me in front of everyone" Boy: "ok, I am sorry, I didn't want to offend you. I was just joking around"

One situation is solvable, and one is not correct?

Not pointing fingers,Not mad at you, trying to figure it all out, and my next steps to proceed SAFELY! on a big investment. We need to know SPECIFICALLY what the issue is. To solve the problem. And Mike from Whipple is welcome here to with his Tuners to explain the Data logs and where they think the problem lies in SPECIFICS.

I'm not mad at any of you, but if I'm put into the middle to solve things, I'm going to figure out how to solve it. In a way I understand in my mind is safe for the car. And since I have a lack of knowledge in this area. You get my drift

So when you read this, I'm not stating that American Heritage Doesn't know how to build engines. They do! but this weird non specific PICKLE issue doesn't make sense to me. So don't feel threatened I am coming after you. I'm not attacking your reputation. So don't feel like I am. Lets SOLVE this! Lets finish what we started! and in a timely fashion!

 

I saw it idle and stall consistently. So I see from a visual what is going on

Not trying to sound mean. and don't panic, I'm not THROWING BLAME at you. However I send you and jake both an email stating I went out, Bought a Stock intake off ebay, and dremel'd the edges off on the outside giving you .5 - 1 inch more clearance. And you guys told me I should focus on it after the car is running. And I can't tell you were the problem lies. This isn't my job. LOL But I think this one will fit evenly at the mouth.

And also solve the hood closing most likely. 2 birds with one stone. How can you go wrong!
and if I have to buy an aftermarket one to solve the issue. So be it. But we need to know if that is or is not the problem. And what SPECIFICALLY is the problem.

However just as you, I've spent a lot of my own hours on this. And I don't have a problem with that.

But outside parties are telling me different as I'm researching it. Because as it is. The car doesn't sound driveable with what is on it. And I don't want to lean it out. Also, my last conversation with Mike at Whipple who I am getting back on the horn with. Flat out stated he thought , he thinks it's in the intake side based on the datalogs. Now is Mike and is tuner info, correct? Hell, I don't know. Is yours correct, Hell I don't know. As well as Jakes statements about the finickyness of that intake can cause that.

But I do know their is an issue. And so the question is. What SPECIFICALLY did your tuner fix to make it not stall out? Do you see where I'm going? And I also do believe you should install my externally modified intake that should fit. I shaved off the front parts. And it should sit evenly. taking that possibily out of the eqaution. I cannot be sure. But it should take 20 mins. And it should fit. And if it doesn't. It will be a lot closer to the right angle. Seems so simple to me. Identical Volume.






Once again! I'm not mad at you! I'm not pointing a finger at you! I know you are the KING of engines, and know your sh****t. But we are missing vital info. And I also plan to sort this out with Mike and his tuner as if it is their tune. They need to get their sh****t together.

And their might be people out here who have had this same issue with a Whipple.
So I think if ANYONE has seen this issue, they should speak up

And if it is Whipple's issue, they can fix it, in a way that is EO Approved! But we need SPECIFICS! What is the Computer saying saying the problem is. And from a tuners standpoint. He should now what he is and is not changing in the tune.

Also Mike states that the Tune he sent you that would not flash was a bandaid to see where the issue was. Ok that being said. The issue must be found SPECIFICALLY for it to be fixed on all sides. Even whipples side for other customers.

My GrandPapi once said "Fix a Problem, Not to Blame"

On that note, other whipple purchasers! Get your LAZY Asses on here and post your stalling tune issues and how you solved them SPECIFICALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This may be meaningless to this conversation, but since you had mentioned that your flexible intake tube going to the throttle body was not straight ... here is a photo of my flexible intake tube on my Magnuson 'Heartbeat' supercharger.

This flexible intake tube is not straight at all, but has no impact on the idle quality, part throttle drivability or wide open throttle performance of my GS.

Even though my LS3 has an aftermarket cam, it still idles very smooth at 775 RPM ... Idle and steady state cruise rpm maintain a constant 14.9:1 AFR (and that is with 72 Lb/Hr @ 58 PSI injectors), and a good dyno tune.

I am no expert, but I think the tune that Whipple supplied with your supercharger is 100% of your problem.

Yes, your in a bind ... That Whipple supplied tune certainly makes your car California smog legal ... Unfortunately, the tune ain't worth a **** !

And, with a good tune, such as the one that your supercharger installer provided for you, unfortunately won't pass the Democratic People's Republic of Kalifornia (DPRK) new smog inspection criteria.

 

Wrong car, wrong intake, wrong MAF tune. And more importantly, look at the graduale velocity curve.

mine is more like


See how this could restrict velocity significantly! And the ZR1 is a nice smooth turn. The Turbulance effect I read about Speed Density tuning solves the issue of that turbulance. However on my setup would be more of a bandaid

So in engineering. You do things correctly, then move on to better it. Not bandaid it to fix it

Look at how the air shoots up, then bounces down probably hitting the bottom and proably bouncing EVERYWHERE before going into the throttle body right at the MAF sensor.

The sensor itself I would guess is flipping out. As on the Haltech the sensor is in the front away from that area as it is even mouthed as well

Now the issue of the intake on it now, is that it doesn't fit. However me shaving off an .5 - 1 inches on the front and retaining the identical volume Should. And get the mouths even. I don't see why that should not be put on if it's going to take that one factor out of the equation. Even if that doesn't solve it. At least you know, that possibility is gone.

I wish I could put this in an air tunnel. I suppose I could do a quick 3D model with Physics simulation of Airflow and see what happens and I'd bet the air would be bouncing every which way right at the Maf. But I have more important things to focus on

Also, if whipples tune simply does not work on that car. Then whipple will need to fix that. Because maybe they got away with no one using their tune in the past. But that has all changed out here! And then their tune would need to work!

It is EO approved, so what's the issue. and since California is RATCHETING down on us to thie EXTREME and making us, and EVERYONE all CRAY CRAY. Everyone needs to figure out how to SPEAK OUT, and do something about THAT!

Because what they are doing at this point is BEYOND obnxious! and in the end they are saying in the grey, "You had better get rid of your cars, and buy ELECTRIC"

 

Update:

Ok, I just got off the Horn with Whipple and as far as the Intake it came down to this.
All the corvettes he has seen them on, the intake does fit that way. Due to the fact of it's size, and wasn't made for a whipple

HOWEVER. that is due to the factory size of the intake, and IDEALY, when you pop on an aftermarket like a Haltech, K&N they fit correctly mouth to mouth.

He could not address if that was the stahling out issue as he said he needed more data from the tuners, scan scan data from the stalling issue to pinpoint in SPECIFICS what is going on. If it is related or not.

 

Outside of the Whipple addition, is the engine stock?

 

Rodney ... Your wasting your time with this guy ...

 

pretty much minus 1 drop in compression. I was told that could not be the issue. However I don't do tunes.

Relax Turbo, I have a lot of posts about different things and I'm on the phone with people as well.
Trying to figure out things. I'm not the mechanic, I am learning as I go. And trying to understand things. And I just read this.

So don't get mad at me. I'm juggling a lot of info.

So what your saying is that if I were to be not running the PCV out the valley cover that would stall out the whipple tune correct? As I believe you've just stated?

 

I would remove those spacers that are elevating the intake and also get a smooth coupler to connect the intake to the throttle body. Let the intake rest where it will rest as the coupler will hold it secure enough. Will likely solve or at least help your hood to close.

As far as the problem with the tune, I agree that the whipple tune is the problem. Canned tunes are very typically extremely far off. I also had to upload the stock tune on my E-Force C6 to Edelbrock and then they supplied a modified tune. The modified tune was so far off that my car was making about 30 hp more with the supercharger instead of the 150 more it was supposed to. A proper dyno tune fixed everything.

I realize you may want to run the Wipple tune so that the car is CARB legal. California is a beautiful state run by some of the most incompetent and evil people. Sorry.

 

I just want the whipple tune to run, and idle. I think we'd all agree a custom tune on any application is going to be way better

 

I have a stock cam, and whipple 63lb injectors for the whipple tune. I think an different cam would not work with the whipple tune. However someone yesterday mentioned a slightly bigger cam would still run on the tunes.

I was under the impression that if you change the lift and duration, you need to change the tune. Because the timing of the injection is changing. However. Possibly the computer can adjust within some changing factors to a point?

 

Did your Whipple SC come with a set of fuel injectors in the kit? ... If so, are these the injectors that are in your engine now?

Also, do you still have the stock LS7 cam in your engine?

 

Yes Turbo, LOL, As I've just stated. The Whipple kit Includes 63lb injectors. And obviously the whipple tune is for those injectors. The factory injectors are 42lb injectors

 

Mechanic after reading the Scanned ECU Data




Also, I should probably upload the Data Logs of the car firing up with the whipple tune and stalling at idle for others to analyze

2nd, 3rd, 4th, 100 million other opinions welcome. Because God knows I have 4 - 7 billions of judgemental delusional opinions and fantasies about me, about my personality from strangers I've never met ranging for 10 yr old to 90 yr olds

WHICH NEEDS NEEDS to be addressed who is investing BILLIONS to Defame me since I was a young child! In pure, HATE, and and RAGE against me! With Criminal INTENT and MALICE