Modifications and tuning
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2012
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Modifications and tuning
I'm completely new to Vette ownership. Just picked up an 09. I have a bit of tuning awareness for bikes. Did some OEM and aftermarket pipe and intake research on Suzuki M109's and Kawa ZX14's/turbo ZX-14's.
After over three hundred fifty mapping runs on the 109, and I don't recall on the ZX-14/turbo 14, with various intake and pipe setups, and OEM bikes, it was possible to have a reasonable expectation of just what HP gains could be had off of the various setups, tested on similar dynos. As you all know dynos by different manufacturers had vastly different number on many occasions, while same manuf/model/certified dynos were within a HP or so of each other. Thanks to Mickey for his shop in S. Calif and his 'discounted' dyno time.
A few general observations off of that experience set, and wondering how that data would, or would not apply to Vetts with pipe and or intake changes.
The bikes MAP sensor could only make very basic/little change to intake charge changes, so any intake modification or pipe change from OEM, resulted in a 'difference' that the MAP could not 'tune' to. These bikes did not have an ECU which 'learned' by any reasonably useful end result.
... meaning that any change to the intake charge or pipe generally was never maximized unless the bike was tuned to the modification.
This in-spite of folks saying their 'seat of the pants' told them they had more power. In every case where a bike was tested after those types of mods, without a tune, the seat of the pants largely proved wrong (well overstated), and in a good number of cases the bikes actually lost power, until a good tune was accomplished.. again even with the owners saying they knew they had more HP by their 'seat of the pants'. The MAP simply could not adjust for the little increases to the air flow difference.
This only changed when an active A/F ECU was added which could adjust in real time or mapping to create a static A/F map. The real time fuel mixture ECU did a pretty good job, not perfect job, at getting to the 'about' max HP in the moment, the static mapping also worked well.
I've been reading various info on intake and exhaust mods/changes, some info details some HP gains on an item, and more if the car is tuned to the mod.
1. Any thoughts on real time mapping, better products of real time mapping, if possible?
2. Has anyone compiled a 'rough' chart of the various intake/exhaust (branded) mods, and the HP gains to be had from tuning to the mod?
3. On the 14 I ended up mapping a (lean) TP and RMP range for cruising between 65-75, which increased my MPG back to OEM engine ranges. Prior to this change, the fuel map was saturated at 10.2 for 'adjust' for the boost/keep the engine 'safe', and getting about 25-28 mpg, if I recall correctly. After leaning it went to 42 or so.
Is leaning the map on a Vette safe for a cruising range also?
Other things for me to consider or ask, but don't know to ask?
I appreciate your feedback.
Jeff
After over three hundred fifty mapping runs on the 109, and I don't recall on the ZX-14/turbo 14, with various intake and pipe setups, and OEM bikes, it was possible to have a reasonable expectation of just what HP gains could be had off of the various setups, tested on similar dynos. As you all know dynos by different manufacturers had vastly different number on many occasions, while same manuf/model/certified dynos were within a HP or so of each other. Thanks to Mickey for his shop in S. Calif and his 'discounted' dyno time.
A few general observations off of that experience set, and wondering how that data would, or would not apply to Vetts with pipe and or intake changes.
The bikes MAP sensor could only make very basic/little change to intake charge changes, so any intake modification or pipe change from OEM, resulted in a 'difference' that the MAP could not 'tune' to. These bikes did not have an ECU which 'learned' by any reasonably useful end result.
... meaning that any change to the intake charge or pipe generally was never maximized unless the bike was tuned to the modification.
This in-spite of folks saying their 'seat of the pants' told them they had more power. In every case where a bike was tested after those types of mods, without a tune, the seat of the pants largely proved wrong (well overstated), and in a good number of cases the bikes actually lost power, until a good tune was accomplished.. again even with the owners saying they knew they had more HP by their 'seat of the pants'. The MAP simply could not adjust for the little increases to the air flow difference.
This only changed when an active A/F ECU was added which could adjust in real time or mapping to create a static A/F map. The real time fuel mixture ECU did a pretty good job, not perfect job, at getting to the 'about' max HP in the moment, the static mapping also worked well.
I've been reading various info on intake and exhaust mods/changes, some info details some HP gains on an item, and more if the car is tuned to the mod.
1. Any thoughts on real time mapping, better products of real time mapping, if possible?
2. Has anyone compiled a 'rough' chart of the various intake/exhaust (branded) mods, and the HP gains to be had from tuning to the mod?
3. On the 14 I ended up mapping a (lean) TP and RMP range for cruising between 65-75, which increased my MPG back to OEM engine ranges. Prior to this change, the fuel map was saturated at 10.2 for 'adjust' for the boost/keep the engine 'safe', and getting about 25-28 mpg, if I recall correctly. After leaning it went to 42 or so.
Is leaning the map on a Vette safe for a cruising range also?
Other things for me to consider or ask, but don't know to ask?
I appreciate your feedback.
Jeff
Last edited by J Christensen; Nov 19, 2012 at 10:32 PM.
