ls3 Ported Throttle body need tune?
06-29-2016, 08:16 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14
Again that is incorrect Sure if the fuel trims are over + or - approx 20 % yes you will get a code------I am not going to argue with you about this --- I can just assume you are NOT a tuner nor have tuning software or data logging experience--Makes it laughable that you claim to understand how tuning in closed loop works and you have no idea about LTFT learning of fuel trims-----
It's one thing to be wrong.. But to be so ignorant that you refuse to learn is mind boggling to me. You're either the best troll this forum has seen in a long time or so clueless it makes my head hurt.
Go ask this question on HPT's forum. I'm sure even if (when) the owner of HPT tells you you're wrong (like he did regarding SD tunes NOT having to be open loop) you'll still act like an ignorant know it all. It doesn't really matter. The fact is, you're wrong and you are wrong on nearly everything you post about regarding tuning.
It's scary that you get paid to tune people's cars and they have no idea how ignorant you are on how things actually work.
Go ask this question on HPT's forum. I'm sure even if (when) the owner of HPT tells you you're wrong (like he did regarding SD tunes NOT having to be open loop) you'll still act like an ignorant know it all. It doesn't really matter. The fact is, you're wrong and you are wrong on nearly everything you post about regarding tuning.
It's scary that you get paid to tune people's cars and they have no idea how ignorant you are on how things actually work.
06-29-2016, 09:34 AM
#23
Drifting
07-03-2016, 03:07 AM
#24
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
He is NOT helping you he is making you go backwards and making it im possible to tune your WOT fuel when you have a positive fuel trim---
Whenever you have a positive LTFT fuel trim "just before going to WOT" that same % is added to your WOT PE fueling as a safety--Everyone knows that---That's why it is important to get all your LTFT's to be "0" or slightly negative at P/T-- Because when you have a negative fuel trim just before going to WOT again as a lean safety the trims will lock on "0"-- as the ECM will never subtract fuel when going to PE to protect your engine from leaning down----This is also a byproduct of the learning system-- which you refuse to acknowledge ---Anyone with a data logger can verify this---
To me this is a simple issue of HP Tuners VS EFILIVE---- Maybe HP tells you something entirely different than EFILIVE---- EFILIVE training spends days explaining how LTFT's learn out---I can only assume that HP is sub standard tuning software and offers little as to how the closed/open loop stock system really works----
Argue your points with someone else----But to someone with superior software than retail HP Tuners I can only offer you "good luck: with your lack of training thru HP---
Whenever you have a positive LTFT fuel trim "just before going to WOT" that same % is added to your WOT PE fueling as a safety--Everyone knows that---That's why it is important to get all your LTFT's to be "0" or slightly negative at P/T-- Because when you have a negative fuel trim just before going to WOT again as a lean safety the trims will lock on "0"-- as the ECM will never subtract fuel when going to PE to protect your engine from leaning down----This is also a byproduct of the learning system-- which you refuse to acknowledge ---Anyone with a data logger can verify this---
To me this is a simple issue of HP Tuners VS EFILIVE---- Maybe HP tells you something entirely different than EFILIVE---- EFILIVE training spends days explaining how LTFT's learn out---I can only assume that HP is sub standard tuning software and offers little as to how the closed/open loop stock system really works----
Argue your points with someone else----But to someone with superior software than retail HP Tuners I can only offer you "good luck: with your lack of training thru HP---
07-03-2016, 03:18 AM
#25
Safety Car
He is NOT helping you he is making you go backwards and making it im possible to tune your WOT fuel when you have a positive fuel trim---
Whenever you have a positive LTFT fuel trim "just before going to WOT" that same % is added to your WOT PE fueling as a safety--Everyone knows that---That's why it is important to get all your LTFT's to be "0" or slightly negative at P/T-- Because when you have a negative fuel trim just before going to WOT again as a lean safety the trims will lock on "0"-- as the ECM will never subtract fuel when going to PE to protect your engine from leaning down----This is also a byproduct of the learning system-- which you refuse to acknowledge ---Anyone with a data logger can verify this---
To me this is a simple issue of HP Tuners VS EFILIVE---- Maybe HP tells you something entirely different than EFILIVE---- EFILIVE training spends days explaining how LTFT's learn out---I can only assume that HP is sub standard tuning software and offers little as to how the closed/open loop stock system really works----
Argue your points with someone else----But to someone with superior software than retail HP Tuners I can only offer you "good luck: with your lack of training thru HP---
Whenever you have a positive LTFT fuel trim "just before going to WOT" that same % is added to your WOT PE fueling as a safety--Everyone knows that---That's why it is important to get all your LTFT's to be "0" or slightly negative at P/T-- Because when you have a negative fuel trim just before going to WOT again as a lean safety the trims will lock on "0"-- as the ECM will never subtract fuel when going to PE to protect your engine from leaning down----This is also a byproduct of the learning system-- which you refuse to acknowledge ---Anyone with a data logger can verify this---
To me this is a simple issue of HP Tuners VS EFILIVE---- Maybe HP tells you something entirely different than EFILIVE---- EFILIVE training spends days explaining how LTFT's learn out---I can only assume that HP is sub standard tuning software and offers little as to how the closed/open loop stock system really works----
Argue your points with someone else----But to someone with superior software than retail HP Tuners I can only offer you "good luck: with your lack of training thru HP---
You're cutting down the software that you don't use, which I get that's the choice you made but they work the same and would be taught the same way. All you have to do is a basic search on the internet to find that they are two sides to the same coin. "Retail" hptuners is purchased the same way as "retail" efilive so you're using the same level "tuner" product. Unless you have access to the GM programming tools you're in the same boat lol.
Calm down and go read your training materials...
Last edited by sevinn; 07-04-2016 at 04:53 PM.
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Dude_man (07-03-2016)
07-05-2016, 11:04 PM
#26
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St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
Finally you have changed your ideas about learning but still refuse to say that initially you said that " fuel trims don't learn " But now recognize they do --All was forgotten until you said I needed to re read my training manuals---Again you take the low road---
Gm utilizes many "learning systems in their stock tuning
1. LTFT's learn out and settle on "0" if they are not to far off (beyond apprx +/- 20%)
2. Knock retard learns the sensitivity of the knock sensors
3 Too many occurrences of knock which is learned will make your timing table go into the "Low Octane table" until you refill your gas tank over apprx 3/4 of a tank-when it will be re set back into the hi octane table
4. If you set you shift times all to "0" (adaptive learning) your shift times will be learned by driver input
5 On Allison transmissions the Shift times and defueling will be learned by driver input and will learn out the base trans pressure as well
Most all of these learning tables take about 50-75 miles of normal driving to finally be learned out and settle on a new base number--
Gm utilizes many "learning systems in their stock tuning
1. LTFT's learn out and settle on "0" if they are not to far off (beyond apprx +/- 20%)
2. Knock retard learns the sensitivity of the knock sensors
3 Too many occurrences of knock which is learned will make your timing table go into the "Low Octane table" until you refill your gas tank over apprx 3/4 of a tank-when it will be re set back into the hi octane table
4. If you set you shift times all to "0" (adaptive learning) your shift times will be learned by driver input
5 On Allison transmissions the Shift times and defueling will be learned by driver input and will learn out the base trans pressure as well
Most all of these learning tables take about 50-75 miles of normal driving to finally be learned out and settle on a new base number--
07-05-2016, 11:14 PM
#27
Race Director
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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St. Jude Donor '15
Finally you have changed your ideas about learning but still refuse to say that initially you said that " fuel trims don't learn " But now recognize they do --All was forgotten until you said I needed to re read my training manuals---Again you take the low road---
Gm utilizes many "learning systems in their stock tuning
1. LTFT's learn out and settle on "0" if they are not to far off (beyond apprx +/- 20%)
2. Knock retard learns the sensitivity of the knock sensors
3 Too many occurrences of knock which is learned will make your timing table go into the "Low Octane table" until you refill your gas tank over apprx 3/4 of a tank-when it will be re set back into the hi octane table
4. If you set you shift times all to "0" (adaptive learning) your shift times will be learned by driver input
5 On Allison transmissions the Shift times and defueling will be learned by driver input and will learn out the base trans pressure as well
Most all of these learning tables take about 50-75 miles of normal driving to finally be learned out and settle on a new base number--
Gm utilizes many "learning systems in their stock tuning
1. LTFT's learn out and settle on "0" if they are not to far off (beyond apprx +/- 20%)
2. Knock retard learns the sensitivity of the knock sensors
3 Too many occurrences of knock which is learned will make your timing table go into the "Low Octane table" until you refill your gas tank over apprx 3/4 of a tank-when it will be re set back into the hi octane table
4. If you set you shift times all to "0" (adaptive learning) your shift times will be learned by driver input
5 On Allison transmissions the Shift times and defueling will be learned by driver input and will learn out the base trans pressure as well
Most all of these learning tables take about 50-75 miles of normal driving to finally be learned out and settle on a new base number--
Refilling the gas tank has absolutely nothing to do with which timing table is utilized. The computer has a parameter called "knock learn factor" that starts at 0 (high octane table only) and is increased each time knock over a certain amount is detected. The amount "knock learn factor" increases varies but stock it will increase about 0.22 for 8* of knock retard.
With a knock learn value of 0.22 base ignition timing would work out to 0.78 * high octane timing value + 0.22 * low octane timing value. A value of 0.5 would be halfway between the high and low octane table timing values. Basicaly, 0 would use only the high octane table and 1 would use only the low octane table. Everything in between is interpolated accordingly.
Knock learn factor then starts continuously decreasing by a tiny amount when certain conditions are met; typically MAP over about 50kpa is the main factor that has to be met. If knock is detected, knock learn factor increases, timing is biased (not switched) further towards the low octane timing table.. As long as there is no knock and MAP is over 50kpa, knock learn factor is decreased. Of course hopefully this cycle isn't necessary at all if there isn't any knock to begin with.
Knock learn factor goes the opposite direction on gen 3 vehicles, so 0 would be low octane only, 1 would be high octane only.
Something tells me your EFI Live training course didn't teach you that. I've actually posted all of this before to you, but as usual it was a waste of time to bother trying to teach you anything. You already know it all.
Last edited by schpenxel; 07-06-2016 at 08:15 AM.
07-05-2016, 11:50 PM
#28
Safety Car
Finally you have changed your ideas about learning but still refuse to say that initially you said that " fuel trims don't learn " But now recognize they do --All was forgotten until you said I needed to re read my training manuals---Again you take the low road---
Gm utilizes many "learning systems in their stock tuning
1. LTFT's learn out and settle on "0" if they are not to far off (beyond apprx +/- 20%)
2. Knock retard learns the sensitivity of the knock sensors
3 Too many occurrences of knock which is learned will make your timing table go into the "Low Octane table" until you refill your gas tank over apprx 3/4 of a tank-when it will be re set back into the hi octane table
4. If you set you shift times all to "0" (adaptive learning) your shift times will be learned by driver input
5 On Allison transmissions the Shift times and defueling will be learned by driver input and will learn out the base trans pressure as well
Most all of these learning tables take about 50-75 miles of normal driving to finally be learned out and settle on a new base number--
Gm utilizes many "learning systems in their stock tuning
1. LTFT's learn out and settle on "0" if they are not to far off (beyond apprx +/- 20%)
2. Knock retard learns the sensitivity of the knock sensors
3 Too many occurrences of knock which is learned will make your timing table go into the "Low Octane table" until you refill your gas tank over apprx 3/4 of a tank-when it will be re set back into the hi octane table
4. If you set you shift times all to "0" (adaptive learning) your shift times will be learned by driver input
5 On Allison transmissions the Shift times and defueling will be learned by driver input and will learn out the base trans pressure as well
Most all of these learning tables take about 50-75 miles of normal driving to finally be learned out and settle on a new base number--