LPE question
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Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Novi Michigan
LPE question
I've checked out the performance upgrades on the LPE website a few times and don't understand why you would want to pay $17,000 for the upgrade to 510 hp when you can spend $6800 for 500 hp. There doesn't seem to be $11,000 in differences between these two. I like the idea of taking my C6 coming in a couple of weeks up to the 500 for another $6800. Seems like a good deal and saves me from having to pay for the Z06.
Waka, Waka, Waka!
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Richmond Virginia
CI 4-6-8 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude Contributor
Originally Posted by running man
...
why you would want to pay $17,000 for the upgrade to 510 hp when you can spend $6800 for 500 hp. ...
why you would want to pay $17,000 for the upgrade to 510 hp when you can spend $6800 for 500 hp. ...
With the stroker motor, the curve is much flatter (more total volume under the curve) so your car will be going through the gears faster = you will be farther down the track.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 583
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From: Western MA
Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear
Because peak horsepower numbers are useless unless you want 'bragging rights'. The shape of the torque curve (or in math terms, the total volume under the curve) is what wins races.
With the stroker motor, the curve is much flatter (more total volume under the curve) so your car will be going through the gears faster = you will be farther down the track.
With the stroker motor, the curve is much flatter (more total volume under the curve) so your car will be going through the gears faster = you will be farther down the track.
More correctly stated, it's total area under the curve FYI
Racer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 438
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From: Kansas City Missouri
This might help too...
This was Lingenfelter's reply to a similar question in another thread about why the difference in cost...hope it helps.
"Yes, the 402 stroker will make about 60ft lbs more torque than the heads & cam package. I'll admit it adds alot to the cost, but you're getting a forged steel crank & rods, and forged aluminum pistons, and a fully balanced & blueprinted bottom end.
Keep in mind, this is still using factory manifolds and cats, full length headers would really wake up either one of these packages.
Hope this helps,
Ed"
"Yes, the 402 stroker will make about 60ft lbs more torque than the heads & cam package. I'll admit it adds alot to the cost, but you're getting a forged steel crank & rods, and forged aluminum pistons, and a fully balanced & blueprinted bottom end.
Keep in mind, this is still using factory manifolds and cats, full length headers would really wake up either one of these packages.
Hope this helps,
Ed"
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,004
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Originally Posted by OWENMUSTANG
it's the "pin you back in the seat" feeling you get with torque. wonderful stuff. plus you get all new h.d internals. i would love to drive both back to back. for scientific reasons, of course! 
Ah yes - science - a wonderful thing!!
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Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: CA
Originally Posted by Fozzy_Bear
Because peak horsepower numbers are useless unless you want 'bragging rights'. The shape of the torque curve (or in math terms, the total volume under the curve) is what wins races.
With the stroker motor, the curve is much flatter (more total volume under the curve) so your car will be going through the gears faster = you will be farther down the track.
With the stroker motor, the curve is much flatter (more total volume under the curve) so your car will be going through the gears faster = you will be farther down the track.
it's only the area under the curve between your shift
point and the rpm you hit going into the next gear
that matters in a 1/4 mile. It isn't the entire curve.
So low end power isn't that relevent for 1/4 times
and speeds.
LPE posted a graph of the torque curve for the LS2
package. I haven't seen one for the 402 package.
By definition, if these engines make the same hp at
similar rpm, they are making the same torque. So we
can reason that at least at the top rpm point, they
are making comparable torque. The question is how
that torque curve looks as rpm decreases.
The LPE LS2 curve is remarkably flat, at least in the
upper rpm range. I think that in order to make the
assertion you made, you'd have to directly compare
the two graphs.
The 402 engine may make much better low end power
due to its displacement advantage but I don't think
it's at all clear which is faster in a 1/4 mile. Not saying
I think the LS2 package is faster, just saying I don't
think it's as obvious as you state.
Pat
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 37,004
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From: This city NEVER sleeps! Frank's back yard!
Originally Posted by catpat8000
A couple of thoughts:
it's only the area under the curve between your shift
point and the rpm you hit going into the next gear
that matters in a 1/4 mile. It isn't the entire curve.
So low end power isn't that relevent for 1/4 times
and speeds.
LPE posted a graph of the torque curve for the LS2
package. I haven't seen one for the 402 package.
By definition, if these engines make the same hp at
similar rpm, they are making the same torque. So we
can reason that at least at the top rpm point, they
are making comparable torque. The question is how
that torque curve looks as rpm decreases.
The LPE LS2 curve is remarkably flat, at least in the
upper rpm range. I think that in order to make the
assertion you made, you'd have to directly compare
the two graphs.
The 402 engine may make much better low end power
due to its displacement advantage but I don't think
it's at all clear which is faster in a 1/4 mile. Not saying
I think the LS2 package is faster, just saying I don't
think it's as obvious as you state.
Pat
it's only the area under the curve between your shift
point and the rpm you hit going into the next gear
that matters in a 1/4 mile. It isn't the entire curve.
So low end power isn't that relevent for 1/4 times
and speeds.
LPE posted a graph of the torque curve for the LS2
package. I haven't seen one for the 402 package.
By definition, if these engines make the same hp at
similar rpm, they are making the same torque. So we
can reason that at least at the top rpm point, they
are making comparable torque. The question is how
that torque curve looks as rpm decreases.
The LPE LS2 curve is remarkably flat, at least in the
upper rpm range. I think that in order to make the
assertion you made, you'd have to directly compare
the two graphs.
The 402 engine may make much better low end power
due to its displacement advantage but I don't think
it's at all clear which is faster in a 1/4 mile. Not saying
I think the LS2 package is faster, just saying I don't
think it's as obvious as you state.
Pat
All this makes sense - I think the main reason the 402 drops off so significantly in the upper rev range is that the stock manifolds and cats are in place - hell, even a stock LS2 picks up some serious power with long-tubes - the 402 will pick up even more!
Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 546
Likes: 1
From: CA
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
All this makes sense - I think the main reason the 402 drops off so significantly in the upper rev range is that the stock manifolds and cats are in place - hell, even a stock LS2 picks up some serious power with long-tubes - the 402 will pick up even more!
and cats.
Pat
Waka, Waka, Waka!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,435
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From: Richmond Virginia
CI 4-6-8 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude Contributor
Originally Posted by catpat8000
...
just saying I don't
think it's as obvious as you state.
Pat
just saying I don't
think it's as obvious as you state.
Pat
I never meant to imply that the physics of racing were simple. I was just trying to answer a simple question with a simple answer. The original question was about money, not physics, so I wanted to K.I.S. (and I might have done it, if not for that volume/area brain-fart)
I think you would agree that the most simple answer to RunningMan's question is:
Peak numbers are not as important as the performance over a range of RPM's.
I elaborated just a bit more in my first post.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,289
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From: Decatur IN
It looks like you guys have answered your own questions before I read this thread, but you're right. The 402 stroker is a considerable amount more money, but the extra expense is directly due to the parts & labor to install them. The torque improvements are very nice with the 402 stroker, and either package will really wake up if you decide tro install some long tube headers.
Keep in mind, the information we have posted is only discussing the first couple cars, we have at least 5 more C6's currently under construction so there will be a lot more preformance data available very soon.
Ed
Keep in mind, the information we have posted is only discussing the first couple cars, we have at least 5 more C6's currently under construction so there will be a lot more preformance data available very soon.
Ed
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,253
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From: Sandy Eggo Calif.
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12, '16
Originally Posted by Ed@Lingenfelter
and either package will really wake up if you decide tro install some long tube headers.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,183
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From: Castle Rock CO
St. Jude Donor '15
Ed,
How is the tuning going? Would you say that you are completely capable of tuning the LS2 at this point, or are there still some areas that need more work? I am seeing some issues from the tuners trying to use LS2 Edit beta editions.
Todd
How is the tuning going? Would you say that you are completely capable of tuning the LS2 at this point, or are there still some areas that need more work? I am seeing some issues from the tuners trying to use LS2 Edit beta editions.
Todd