question for tuners
Thread Starter
Somba master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,554
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Cruise-In 7, 9 & 12 Veteran
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11
question for tuners
When you tune using the LS2 edit and change the TM, does this deactivate the traction control and/or stability control? 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,176
Likes: 0
From: Orange, CT
Originally Posted by gmoller
When you tune using the LS2 edit and change the TM, does this deactivate the traction control and/or stability control?
I can only explain my situation...
I recently had my car tuned by Jeremy Formato. My mods are headers-back and a Halltech. As far as I know the TM has nothing directly to do with the TC or AH. What he did was change when my TM kicks in. Since there is no way to actually "turn it off", one must be creative- in short, the TM normally limits max torque to 281 lb/ft at 3000 rpm (I beleive)... what Jeremy did was change in to a limit of 6,000 lb/ft at 6,000 rpm... Will I ever make 6,000 lb/ft...? No. Therefore my TM will never come on.
Trac and AH are still available at the push of a button. 
Hope this answers your question.
...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by turbo_tom
I can only explain my situation...
I recently had my car tuned by Jeremy Formato. My mods are headers-back and a Halltech. As far as I know the TM has nothing directly to do with the TC or AH. What he did was change when my TM kicks in. Since there is no way to actually "turn it off", one must be creative- in short, the TM normally limits max torque to 281 lb/ft at 3000 rpm (I beleive)... what Jeremy did was change in to a limit of 6,000 lb/ft at 6,000 rpm... Will I ever make 6,000 lb/ft...? No. Therefore my TM will never come on. Trac and AH are still available at the push of a button.
Hope this answers your question.
...
I recently had my car tuned by Jeremy Formato. My mods are headers-back and a Halltech. As far as I know the TM has nothing directly to do with the TC or AH. What he did was change when my TM kicks in. Since there is no way to actually "turn it off", one must be creative- in short, the TM normally limits max torque to 281 lb/ft at 3000 rpm (I beleive)... what Jeremy did was change in to a limit of 6,000 lb/ft at 6,000 rpm... Will I ever make 6,000 lb/ft...? No. Therefore my TM will never come on.
Trac and AH are still available at the push of a button. Hope this answers your question.
...
Tech Contributor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,094
Likes: 197
From: Colorado Springs, CO
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by jimman
But has the Active Handling algorithm been affected to some degree as a result of that. I haven’t seen a tuner that knows for sure. I had mine tuned and we just focused on mix, timing and rev limits.
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,254
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Liquordale Florida
I was under the impression that TC/AH was determined by the input from wheel/spin sensors, accelerometer type sensors, and steering angle/yaw sensors (when it actually works). Remove a torque limiter from the engine algorythm which is based on torque output from the engine @ given RPM ranges, should have little to do with an external trigger to reduce power sent to the ECU from the ABS & BCM modules.
UNLESS these modules derive their engine power reductions from the TM table (as well as applying the brakes). Then again, from what folks have been able to decipher from the TM torque reduction, it doesn't seem similar to the near total cut of power that AH/TC induces when triggered (versus the somewhat "milder" effects of TM).
Hmmmm. Interesting concept...
Rick
UNLESS these modules derive their engine power reductions from the TM table (as well as applying the brakes). Then again, from what folks have been able to decipher from the TM torque reduction, it doesn't seem similar to the near total cut of power that AH/TC induces when triggered (versus the somewhat "milder" effects of TM).
Hmmmm. Interesting concept...
Rick
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,565
Likes: 5
From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by SickRick
I was under the impression that TC/AH was determined by the input from wheel/spin sensors, accelerometer type sensors, and steering angle/yaw sensors (when it actually works). Remove a torque limiter from the engine algorythm which is based on torque output from the engine @ given RPM ranges, should have little to do with an external trigger to reduce power sent to the ECU from the ABS & BCM modules.
UNLESS these modules derive their engine power reductions from the TM table (as well as applying the brakes). Then again, from what folks have been able to decipher from the TM torque reduction, it doesn't seem similar to the near total cut of power that AH/TC induces when triggered (versus the somewhat "milder" effects of TM).
Hmmmm. Interesting concept...
Rick
UNLESS these modules derive their engine power reductions from the TM table (as well as applying the brakes). Then again, from what folks have been able to decipher from the TM torque reduction, it doesn't seem similar to the near total cut of power that AH/TC induces when triggered (versus the somewhat "milder" effects of TM).
Hmmmm. Interesting concept...
Rick
I was under the impression that TM was defined as;"(from GM Press Release) Marking the sixth generation of its legacy, the 2005 Chevrolet Corvette delivers more power, passion and precision to reach a new standard of performance car excellence. ...
... Traction control initiates individual wheel braking and/or engine torque reduction after sensing excessive wheelspin."
http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-20...Corvette-C6.htm
torque reduction = torque management ?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by SickRick
I was under the impression that TC/AH was determined by the input from wheel/spin sensors, accelerometer type sensors, and steering angle/yaw sensors (when it actually works). Remove a torque limiter from the engine algorythm which is based on torque output from the engine @ given RPM ranges, should have little to do with an external trigger to reduce power sent to the ECU from the ABS & BCM modules.
UNLESS these modules derive their engine power reductions from the TM table (as well as applying the brakes). Then again, from what folks have been able to decipher from the TM torque reduction, it doesn't seem similar to the near total cut of power that AH/TC induces when triggered (versus the somewhat "milder" effects of TM).
Hmmmm. Interesting concept...
Rick
UNLESS these modules derive their engine power reductions from the TM table (as well as applying the brakes). Then again, from what folks have been able to decipher from the TM torque reduction, it doesn't seem similar to the near total cut of power that AH/TC induces when triggered (versus the somewhat "milder" effects of TM).
Hmmmm. Interesting concept...
Rick
Last edited by jimman; Aug 10, 2005 at 08:51 AM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
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From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by JJFormato
TC and AH are only going to come on when wheel slipage is detected to the best of my knowledge. I could be wrong. But that is the nature of the mode.
Jeremy
Jeremy
Thread Starter
Somba master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,554
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Cruise-In 7, 9 & 12 Veteran
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Jimman and Zig are commenting on just the aspect I was referring to. I know that brake controls are used for the traction control and active handling, but from what I have read so is TM. So my question still stands, does altering TM parameters change the overall funtion of TC and AH?
I also just remembered someone makes a plug in module to defeat TM, and they clearly stated that it disables ABS! So, what do you guys think?
I also just remembered someone makes a plug in module to defeat TM, and they clearly stated that it disables ABS! So, what do you guys think?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by gmoller
Jimman and Zig are commenting on just the aspect I was referring to. I know that brake controls are used for the traction control and active handling, but from what I have read so is TM. So my question still stands, does altering TM parameters change the overall funtion of TC and AH?
I also just remembered someone makes a plug in module to defeat TM, and they clearly stated that it disables ABS! So, what do you guys think?
I also just remembered someone makes a plug in module to defeat TM, and they clearly stated that it disables ABS! So, what do you guys think?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,566
Likes: 2
From: Goleta CA
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
While they may be related, I think they are 2 seperate modes because of how distinct their differences are. TM is an issue in drag race like situations, and of no concern on a tight twisty road. People describe TM as bogging and a reduction of power, and in some cases it is said to somewhat come and go smoothly, in that it does not upset the car, but reduces acceleration somewhat. In my experiences with AH, if I'm going straight at low speeds, and have the throttle mostly open, engine power is cut almost completely. When you're going 10mph with full throttle and the car doesn't accelerate or rev higher at all, it's very noticeable. AH doesn't do this arount curves, but those situations, which is what it was designed for, are at low throttle levels, where TM would not be needed.
That's my view of it, but weather the two work together at all we may never know.
That's my view of it, but weather the two work together at all we may never know.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK US
[QUOTE=turbo_tom]I can only explain my situation...
I recently had my car tuned by Jeremy Formato. My mods are headers-back and a Halltech. As far as I know the TM has nothing directly to do with the TC or AH. What he did was change when my TM kicks in. Since there is no way to actually "turn it off", one must be creative- in short, the TM normally limits max torque to 281 lb/ft at 3000 rpm (I beleive)... what Jeremy did was change in to a limit of 6,000 lb/ft at 6,000 rpm... Will I ever make 6,000 lb/ft...? No. Therefore my TM will never come on. Trac and AH are still available at the push of a button.
Hope this answers your question.
I haven't seen LS2edit, but if you know how myself and a couple others (Ron Zimmer is another) certainly can completly eliminate torque management. Maybe they (Ls2edit) figured out how to do that yet. There is a lot more to it than just raising limits, which I have found to not totally get rid of it anyway. Only lessens it's effects.
Good luck, Ed
I recently had my car tuned by Jeremy Formato. My mods are headers-back and a Halltech. As far as I know the TM has nothing directly to do with the TC or AH. What he did was change when my TM kicks in. Since there is no way to actually "turn it off", one must be creative- in short, the TM normally limits max torque to 281 lb/ft at 3000 rpm (I beleive)... what Jeremy did was change in to a limit of 6,000 lb/ft at 6,000 rpm... Will I ever make 6,000 lb/ft...? No. Therefore my TM will never come on.
Trac and AH are still available at the push of a button. Hope this answers your question.
I haven't seen LS2edit, but if you know how myself and a couple others (Ron Zimmer is another) certainly can completly eliminate torque management. Maybe they (Ls2edit) figured out how to do that yet. There is a lot more to it than just raising limits, which I have found to not totally get rid of it anyway. Only lessens it's effects.
Good luck, Ed
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
Likes: 51
From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by mlongo99
I don't understand the 281lb-ft limit. Where is it measured? Obviously not at the flywheel or rear wheel. Otherwise these cars would be a lot slower.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,176
Likes: 0
From: Orange, CT
Originally Posted by Ed Wright
I haven't seen LS2edit, but if you know how myself and a couple others (Ron Zimmer is another) certainly can completly eliminate torque management. Maybe they (Ls2edit) figured out how to do that yet. There is a lot more to it than just raising limits, which I have found to not totally get rid of it anyway. Only lessens it's effects.
Good luck, Ed
Good luck, Ed
Raising it's limits will not totally get rid of it...? That's quite obvious, because theoretically, if I was to actually make more than 6,000 tq. under 6,000 rpm, it would turn on.
But that will never happen- so for all intensive purposes, its off. 
...
Heel & Toe
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Tulsa, OK US
Originally Posted by turbo_tom
Raising it's limits will not totally get rid of it...? That's quite obvious, because theoretically, if I was to actually make more than 6,000 tq. under 6,000 rpm, it would turn on. But that will never happen- so for all intensive purposes, its off.
...
But that will never happen- so for all intensive purposes, its off. ...
Ed
