CAM Differences
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,477
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
when I did the head/cam work last month, my mod shop owner suggested this cam: Cam 224 230 581/592 114 LSA. When looking at my dyno, great low end torque that continues past 6000rpm. this cam has a mild lope, my wife commented on how "stupid" it felt for the first couple of rides, but now doesn't either notice it or comment on it. I'm afraid to ask in case it is the latter! 
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 255
Likes: 19
From: Midland Texas
Here's my mods and mild cam dyno sheet.
06 Z-51 A6 - Haltech, underdrive pulley, LG headers w/Cats, G5 Executive cam pakage No loss of low end torque here!! Sorry I do not have the cam specs to give you.
06 Z-51 A6 - Haltech, underdrive pulley, LG headers w/Cats, G5 Executive cam pakage No loss of low end torque here!! Sorry I do not have the cam specs to give you.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Both dyno sheets above show readings from about 2,700 rpm and up. What about UNDER 2,700 rpm????? 
As was stated in another post, "streetable" is a RELATIVE term. For many, street torque ("low-end torque") is 1,000 - 3,000, because that's where a street car is used the greatest percentage of the time when on the street. Thus, the above dyno charts do not show true "low-end torque".
Of course, for the drag strip, you may never even see under 2,700 rpm, so in this case, a bigger cam seems to be a worthwhile modification, and the typical dyno chart is useful.
I wonder if dynos can pull and yield accurate readings from as low as 1,000 rpm and up... because such info would be truly useful for "street" tuning.
As was stated in another post, "streetable" is a RELATIVE term. For many, street torque ("low-end torque") is 1,000 - 3,000, because that's where a street car is used the greatest percentage of the time when on the street. Thus, the above dyno charts do not show true "low-end torque".
Of course, for the drag strip, you may never even see under 2,700 rpm, so in this case, a bigger cam seems to be a worthwhile modification, and the typical dyno chart is useful.
I wonder if dynos can pull and yield accurate readings from as low as 1,000 rpm and up... because such info would be truly useful for "street" tuning.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 255
Likes: 19
From: Midland Texas
Rarely do I see a wheel dyno start much below 2500 rpm's on this forum. In my car you are talking about moving the rollers in 4th gear to make a pull so I doubt you will get numbers from idle on a rear wheel dyno like you could an engine dyno. Bogging the motor isn't a good thing. Look at how flat the torque curve is on the dyno sheet between 2500 and 3000 rpms. It is roughly 30 to 40 ftlbs over stock and I would be willing to bet it is better than stock at 1000 or 1500 rpms too. My car is very streetable and had no loss in low end torque and that is all I was trying to say with the dyno graph. Comparing the two dyno graphs I would say it looks like the LS2 has a more low end torque then the LS6 just like C-ya said as well.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SlickBlackVette
Rarely do I see a wheel dyno start much below 2500 rpm's on this forum.... Bogging the motor isn't a good thing...
Just saying that in theory it WOULD be interesting to compare actual torque output numbers of engines with different cams in the 1,000 - 2,500 rpm area, because I do suspect that a larger than stock cam will have a torque loss in the lower range. I say this because I've swapped cams in cars in the past and have noted that larger than stock cams have ALWAYS been noticeably weaker in the low-range, certainly below 1,500 rpm, and sometimes even higher. Of course you can swap in more aggressive gearing to compensate... but then you hurt economy... so you start getting closer and closer to a "race car", and farther away from an ideal "street car". It's all good... I'd love to drive some of these modified big cam cars... they must be a BLAST to run through the gears! 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,577
Likes: 3
From: Southern Maryland Maryland
One big thing I notice is the before numbers are not tuned. A/F plays alot with how much rwhp a combo makes. The following dyno graph shows 10% less fuel @ the bottom end, not saying one is right but there is a big difference in fuel. Gotta compare apples to apples.
Phil
Phil
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,760
Likes: 75
From: Haymarket VA
I run a 230-236 112 +2 XE-R cam in my full H/C 90/90 setup. I drive it in bumper to bumper DC traffic whenever I want. Even out 66 to Haymarket which is ugly. I idle at 825 and the car pulls cleanly to the 6600 rev limit. I run 11:1 compression which is not that high. I usually shift it at 2600-2700 unless having fun.
I run a Speed Density tune that really tamed the setup. Thanks PHIL97SVT!
My car is NOT a "race car". It's a "gentleman's cruiser". I take it on trips and wouldn't hesitate to take it cross country tomorrow.
EST RWHP 460-470.
I run a Speed Density tune that really tamed the setup. Thanks PHIL97SVT!
My car is NOT a "race car". It's a "gentleman's cruiser". I take it on trips and wouldn't hesitate to take it cross country tomorrow.
EST RWHP 460-470.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 2
From: Allentown PA
Originally Posted by Phil97SVT
One big thing I notice is the before numbers are not tuned. A/F plays alot with how much rwhp a combo makes. The following dyno graph shows 10% less fuel @ the bottom end, not saying one is right but there is a big difference in fuel. Gotta compare apples to apples.
I be that car (Stock) had at least 10 HP and 10 Torque with a tune.
I'm also not sure why they are running so lean then so rich (after the tune), maybe it's not tuned? This car has more HP in it, lean it out a bit up top and give it more fuel on the bottom. Torque wants fuel, HP wants air. Either way those are nice numbers and I bet the car is a blast to drive.
Now, I need to pick a cam for myself
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 2
From: Allentown PA
Originally Posted by valdeztke
So would you all say this 224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
is an aggresive cam with alot of low end loss?
is an aggresive cam with alot of low end loss?
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,430
Likes: 81
From: Whidbey Island WA
Originally Posted by schilitj
this cam has a mild lope, my wife commented on how "stupid" it felt for the first couple of rides, but now doesn't either notice it or comment on it. I'm afraid to ask in case it is the latter!
Trust me, she's shopping new appliances....
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,344
Likes: 22
From: Alexandria VA
Dave Im right there with ya! Oh these specs are right 224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA the reverse is the other one 227/224 I looked at the Thunder Racing website and they are two different cams. This one is a SC / Juice cam..
WKMCD you have to let me check out your vette one day .. I am down in Alexandria VA ..
WKMCD you have to let me check out your vette one day .. I am down in Alexandria VA ..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 2
From: Allentown PA
Originally Posted by valdeztke
Dave Im right there with ya! Oh these specs are right 224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA the reverse is the other one 227/224 I looked at the Thunder Racing website and they are two different cams.
Lemme find you a similiar cam tha it proven to be an exceptional cam in LS1's...Gimme a couple of minutes to find it.....
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,477
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Originally Posted by crabman
Trust me, she's shopping new appliances....
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,398
Likes: 2
From: Allentown PA
Ok....found it.
This is the cam you want. It is perfectly streetable, will make good power, idles nice, and works great with heads should you decide to get them in the future.
This cam is in tons of LS1's and LS6's and has been proven time and time again.
If you want a mid sized cam, this is it.
224 228 .581 .588 114 LSA
This is the cam you want. It is perfectly streetable, will make good power, idles nice, and works great with heads should you decide to get them in the future.
This cam is in tons of LS1's and LS6's and has been proven time and time again.
If you want a mid sized cam, this is it.
224 228 .581 .588 114 LSA
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Carencro LA
I do believe I will be putting a Thunder Racing cheaTR cam in my car as soon I get a chance. I have heard some on F-bodies and they pick 20-40 hp and keeps the cars very stealthy. Being I have kept my stock cat-back with my Kooks 1 7/8, this is the way to go for me. Over 400 to the wheels and stock Idle and drivability with power everywhere under the curve. You'd be surprised to know that this cam is not that hard on the drivetrain either. You guys can read up on the cam over at LS1tech.com. Do a search for it or patrickg. Plus I believe when I put the procharger on the car I will be well over 500-525.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 255
Likes: 19
From: Midland Texas
Originally Posted by CYA-Vett
This a a tuners best friend an untuned car verses a modded tuned car.
I be that car (Stock) had at least 10 HP and 10 Torque with a tune.
I'm also not sure why they are running so lean then so rich (after the tune), maybe it's not tuned? This car has more HP in it, lean it out a bit up top and give it more fuel on the bottom. Torque wants fuel, HP wants air. Either way those are nice numbers and I bet the car is a blast to drive.
Now, I need to pick a cam for myself
I be that car (Stock) had at least 10 HP and 10 Torque with a tune.
I'm also not sure why they are running so lean then so rich (after the tune), maybe it's not tuned? This car has more HP in it, lean it out a bit up top and give it more fuel on the bottom. Torque wants fuel, HP wants air. Either way those are nice numbers and I bet the car is a blast to drive.
Now, I need to pick a cam for myself
As you can see, stock the car was runing and AFR in of 11.5 to 11.8 and we knew just getting that changed would bring the power up. In fact we were all suprised to see numbers in that range. The other stock cars I have seen were in the low 12 range. Sean shoots for about a 13.1 on the AFR for most cars in his tune. Cold weather = Denser air = the AFR that you see on my graph. Uncorrected HP was 410 by the way. And yes it is a blast to drive now. I am so glad torque management is gone!!!
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,760
Likes: 75
From: Haymarket VA
Originally Posted by valdeztke
Dave Im right there with ya! Oh these specs are right 224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA the reverse is the other one 227/224 I looked at the Thunder Racing website and they are two different cams. This one is a SC / Juice cam..
WKMCD you have to let me check out your vette one day .. I am down in Alexandria VA ..
WKMCD you have to let me check out your vette one day .. I am down in Alexandria VA ..