Two-Lane Blacktop

The M6 will run low 12s @ 118. All things being equal, anything other than a perfect pass from a fast C6 Z51 mn can take the M. A4's A6's will not. Also compare the mph, the M is a 7spd auto. Your question took several turns and heated up as forum members considered top speeds, speed governed, etc.., unfortunately the data so far points to the M at 205. In capable hands the C6 Z06 will be quicker but may not top out quite that high. And then there was the price difference. One member who misundersood my input had a poor choice of words using "goofy" to describe my point (not worth a reply) yet in your original post all you want to know is how bad is the M. I'ts BAD. Remarkable, when you take into account how heavy it is. I witnessed a 12 flat at 120 on his first pass. We are all on the same team, but not all of us are objective.

LS1LT1

So now there is no governor limiting them to 155?
Keep in mind before you give an in depth answer about capabilities that we are comparing BONE STOCK cars here.


But the depreciation arguement IS quite meaningless (perhaps a better choice of words than goofy ) because some people lease, other's use it as a company write off, some pay cash while others finance at varying rates, some trade in and some sell privately etc. All I know is that in the end one will very likely lose less money (not talking percentages here, actual cash) buying/owning/selling a $50k Corvette then one who buys/owns/sells a $96k BMW M6 right now.
That is almost irrefutable.

fenderowner

Great thread, but the bottom line comes down to the heart: do the M5 or M6 out-perform the C6? Perhaps, but then again, they are NOT Corvettes!!! I will assert that , if you own a C6 you'll get more looks from the general public than a BMW M5/M6 owner. Yeah, I know: pure emotions. But that's part of the reason I own a C6.

heavychevy

You are kiddin right? More looks from a c6? There are absolutely a billion vettes on the road and my 2000 m5 gets way more looks than my 2001 corvette. Both decked out with rims. I dont see why this would be any different.

heavychevy

You are very myuch mistaken. the rarity of the m6 and the m5 leads to low depreciation rates. BMW hold value much better than chevy's anyways. I bought a 745 in 03 for 72k and selling it for 50 k

ronsc1985

Wrong, the current retail price for a 2003 Z06 with 30k miles is 38,325. The current retail price for a 745 with 30k is 50,300. Unless a 2003 Z06 cost more than 60k you would have lost less money on the Corvette as was stated by LS1LT1.

Two-Lane Blacktop

If this question was a quiz, the first member to get an A was Sallen619 on 5/8/06, posting the correct answer: 1/4 mile times of 12.4 ET for M5/6 and 115mph for M5 and 118 for M6. Then Skiman on the same day corrects the 0 to 60 to a 4.1. The June issue of Road & Track posts them to be exact at 12.4 at 115.8 and 12.4 at 118.1 with the same 0 to 60 times of 4.1. For argument's sake, the same magazine posts a 0 to 60 for a C6 coupe, MN6, of 4.5 and 1/4 mile of 12.8 at 114.5 and a top speed of 186. The C6 Z06 posts a time for 0 to 60 of 3.9 and 12.2 for the 1/4 mi at 120.7 with a top speed of 198. From there on the discussion took interesting turns. LS1LT1 on 5/9/06 does not answer the question but brings up the discrepency in price. Which has nothing to do with the original question. The discussion then turns into top speed where BRN-C6 states on 5/12 that he has topped 200. I then joined the discussion, validating the 200 figure since my inline 6 tricked M5 had needled at 175. Fastphilly, on 5/12, quotes Motor Trend's website where BMW stated that the M would top 205 without a speed limiter. So far, we can deduct that the M series tops out at around 205. LS1LT1 considers removing a speed limiter a mod. I respect his right to his opinion. I am of the opinion that the limiter serves like a break that comes on at 155, (just as if you would press the break pedal) and removing it only allows the car to go as fast as it was designed to go. The economic factors that have been brought up are complicated and everyone, because of different budgets, will have a different angle of looking at it. Again, because of the exclusivity of the M5/6, the appreciating Euro against the US dollar, (remember these cars are made in Germany) I believe, like others, that these cars will hold their value very well. But that was not the original question, which was again repeated by Vette-oholic on 5/9, he just wanted to satisfy his knowledge of other cars and does not mention interest in top speed, nor price. We are all Corvette fans, and I hope that GM is listening in because stealth looking machines like the C6 and Z06 should not have this competition. In the end this is what it's all about.

Monts

Well said 707, but there will always be competition.

LS1LT1

That's what you're selling it for or that's what you've gotten for it?
I remember a few years back (I was considering buying one for about a week LOL) seeing two-three year old 7 series BMWs sitting on dealer's lots for months still trying to fetch $30k-$40k.
From what I've seen online/in Autotrader and the car's reputation over the last few years, I think the 7 series might be a bad example to use actually.

heavychevy

Like hell it is the current blue book on a 2003 745 with excellent condition interior and several upgrades is 53k ask me how I know. Not to mention the z06 is 36k. Most people paid somewhere in the mid 50's for a new c5 Z06 so that puts them both around 20k in depreciation and that my friend benefits the BMW because the percentage of depreciation is much less. And this is a 745 not a M5 or M6 which hold their values much more.

glennhl

My Dad had BMW's for years, they are very good old man cars. But they are hard as heck to sell. He took a bath on everyone he ever owned. Sorry, but BMW's are such boring looking cars. Some are pretty quick, but they look like Japanese cars to me. Porsches are the only German car I would look twice at.

LS1LT1

Hey, I'm not the only one that helped send this thing off on a tangent, in all fairness and no offense, you yourself contributed some as well. Regardless, I apologize to the original poster for doing so.



For the most part I do agree and also believe that the car is certainly capable of far exceeding the forced top speed limit imposed on it by BMW. Just as the 'Chevrolet imposed' rev limiter and torque management on the C6/Z06 likely costs them some ET and top speed as well and how removing them would yield even more spectacular results.

But this also raises another interesting debate. If the M5/M6 were sold with the idea/desire that they not exceed 155mph, are we sure that the OTHER systems (brakes/tires/catalyst/aerodynamics etc.) that allow a vehicle to travel over 190mph as safely as possible were left intact?
And if not is BMW still held accountable for a customer removing said speed limiter and potentially losing control of the car as a result when BMW clearly sold the car with it in place?
Of course GM isn't to be held accountable for someone wrecking their Corvette at 175mph either but at least they sold/marketed the car ready to hit that speed.
This is all hypothetical of course and I think I know the answer already...I'm quite sure that the 'M' cars are quite stable at those upper ranges.
Though I'm not so sure I'd want to be making any swift movements/stops from 190+ in such a HEAVY car LOL.

heavychevy

It is a bad example but still very comprable to a c5z I bet you wont see any that are 30k miles sitting there for 30-40k. I get low ball 45k cash offers every other day. Had one locked at 49k but the couple decided to go with an SL for much more money. The 7 year warranty helps a little with the problems BMW had with the 7. But the fact remains that BMW's hold values better than chevys and comparable model lines.

LS1LT1

Many but certainly not most, during 2003 and 2004 most Z06s (and of course LS1 C5s as well) were sold at discounted/rebated prices, up to $12k off MSRP in some cases.
Someone I know paid $41k for his brand new 2004 Z06.

And this is why I say that one cannot even measure true resale value or depreciation/loss, even the benchmark Kelley Blue Book numbers are skewed by other factors.

LS1LT1

So the only SOLID sale price we have thus far is $45k.
$72k (plus the higher sales tax amount difference on the more costly car, let's not forget that ) plus gas guzzler tax (though not sure if it had that or not) minus the real offer of $45k = $27k lost.

2003 Z06 = MSRP was roughly $53k but I would venture to say that most sold for under $49k, now selling used with 30k miles for roughly $33k now = $16k lost.

heavychevy

That only goes to show that the car couldnt even holds its value until the end of the product line. When the 745 came out it retailed at 75k I got one 2 years later for 72k and that was because I knew the owner of the dealership and got it at invoice. If that many people are paying that much less than what the car costs then the car already has lost it's value. And we all know that getting projections are just that projections your not likely to sell for that anyways. Search the used car section and you'll see those same Z06's going for 32k 31k and so on. my point is its a two way street so number crunching gets you nowhere. And like I said before the m5 and m6 are on a whole different level. And you can bet your behind they will be selling with low miles in 2-3 years for 75-85k which for an almost 100k car is not too shabby. Mercedes certainly cant claim that about their AMG line.

heavychevy

This sums up this whole conversation. The m6 may not beat you by much in a 1/4 but will eat your lunch on the highway. It wont take you much money or mods to reverse that scenario.

ronsc1985

I don't know how you know but it is certainly not by looking up the current retail prices. Maybe where you live things are different but the process I quoted are the exact prices in the Wash D. C. metro area.

heavychevy

I have search extensively on ebay, autotrader, Kbb's selling department and many other sites (cars.com, thebiglot.com) I did this to make sure my price was reasonable and fair. If you must know. so it's you that needs to show me a 2003 745 with 25-35k miles for 30-40k dollars. thank you and I also must mention that my car has only been on the market for about three weeks or so. If you have never sold a car you will know that it takes time to sell one and you will typically get less that what you expect. I turned down a couple of 47k bids early in the game but my car is impecable and Im not short changing myself for anyone. I would very well keep the car except but I have too many cars to keep in the garage. outside is not an option.

ronsc1985

Maybe it's getting late and your reading is becoming impaired but the price I stated for the 2003 745 was 50,300.