ETP/AFR Heads - worth the $$$?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 322
From: Raleigh NC
ETP/AFR Heads - worth the $$$?
I have been looking at various H/C options & am wondering why so many people who have already upgraded their heads, are pulling them off & replacing them with ETP heads?
The flow information I can find is essentially the same for all these heads, so what justifies the 3x price increase over, say Livernois' basic head set, which they sell for $949?
I understand ETP's 11 degree valve angle is state-of-the-art, but if flow #'s are almost identical, what does that really buy?
The flow information I can find is essentially the same for all these heads, so what justifies the 3x price increase over, say Livernois' basic head set, which they sell for $949?
I understand ETP's 11 degree valve angle is state-of-the-art, but if flow #'s are almost identical, what does that really buy?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 125
From: laguna niguel ca
ETP heads worked for me
My situation was kind of unique. I had already done everything except the heads. So mine was a heads alone mod. With the 215 ETP's I picked up 36rwhp and 30twtq. I think the results speak for themselves.
And that's with a mild 224/228 cam. Yes I think the extra cost was worth it.
And that's with a mild 224/228 cam. Yes I think the extra cost was worth it.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
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From: Short Hills, NJ
In a naturally aspirated stock cubic inch situation I don't think the aftermarket brand heads will net you any more power nor better track times than a well ported OEM LS6 head from a reputable/well known heads and cam specialty operation such as Cartek etc.
Cam choice and proper tuning are obviously critical as well.
In a seriously boosted/FI application things may be different though.
Cam choice and proper tuning are obviously critical as well.
In a seriously boosted/FI application things may be different though.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 97
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From: Hagerstown MD
I would like so info here as well. I was looking at the livernois heads as well. I was going to do a cam only but at the price of these heads why not do them as well. These heads are from 949 up to 1499 and the stock heads look like the will bring close to $500 on ebay so you are looking at 500 to 1000 to upgrade plus gaskets (very Cheap). Is anybody running these heads? Any bad or good feedback on them would be appreciated before I make a purchase.
Thanks, Jereome
Thanks, Jereome
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
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From: Raleigh NC
In the April GM Hightech Performance mag test, Livernois stage 1 heads added 20HP & 18lb-ft without a Fast intake. I'm sure with an intake, they would have netted more.
So, without know what the stage 2 heads net, you have to ask yourself if 3x the price is worth ~16 more HP & 12 more ft-lb of torque.
I believe Andreas has a Fast, so the difference in gains is likely even less.
So, without know what the stage 2 heads net, you have to ask yourself if 3x the price is worth ~16 more HP & 12 more ft-lb of torque.
I believe Andreas has a Fast, so the difference in gains is likely even less.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,344
Likes: 22
From: Alexandria VA
To Andreas and Xstang- I dont think you can conclude that the "money was well worth it" in your pruchase, not just yet anyways.
What we are missing here is the results from the Liverwurst heads.
That and you have to figure your results without the FST90. I do think 1/3 of that x3 markup is def name, but is the name really giving you THAT much more quality and performance?
We need to see the liverboys results.
What we are missing here is the results from the Liverwurst heads.
That and you have to figure your results without the FST90. I do think 1/3 of that x3 markup is def name, but is the name really giving you THAT much more quality and performance?
We need to see the liverboys results.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 137
From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by Nicodemus
I would like so info here as well. I was looking at the livernois heads as well. I was going to do a cam only but at the price of these heads why not do them as well. These heads are from 949 up to 1499 and the stock heads look like the will bring close to $500 on ebay so you are looking at 500 to 1000 to upgrade plus gaskets (very Cheap).
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
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From: Annandale VA
Also remember that peak HP/TQ numbers are only a small part of the picture. Total area under the curve equates to higher average HP/TQ numbers, which is much more important. Large ports will give you good peaks, but lousy throttle response compared to a smaller port, high velocity design. In my opinion, this is why the AFR heads have done so well.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
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From: Raleigh NC
Spoke to Anthony @ LG today & also Livernois. LG was more knowledgeable, and professional, and recommended the AFR heads over ETP.
That said, for me, I simply cannot justify the additional $1500 for the AFR heads over Livernois (actually 1800 when factoring in the core credit). Their 'under the curve' boost is quite impressive for the price.
Livernois is working on another article for next month's GM Highperformance magazine featuring their stage 2 heads. I'll likely wait until the results are in before I leap.
Thanks for your input though.
That said, for me, I simply cannot justify the additional $1500 for the AFR heads over Livernois (actually 1800 when factoring in the core credit). Their 'under the curve' boost is quite impressive for the price.
Livernois is working on another article for next month's GM Highperformance magazine featuring their stage 2 heads. I'll likely wait until the results are in before I leap.
Thanks for your input though.
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
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From: Plano Texas
Did Anthony@LG say why the AFR heads were better than the ETP's?
I've heard that the ETP's make a little more power and you don't have to flycut the pistons with any cam that will fit the stock heads?
I've heard that the ETP's make a little more power and you don't have to flycut the pistons with any cam that will fit the stock heads?
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,254
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From: Ft. Liquordale Florida
Running AFR 225/70cc for my boosted application. Thier flow #'s are better than most, and they are a time-proven application. Heads alone will not yield the kind of HP/TQ #'s that a good cam or head/cam combo will.
It all depends on what your FINAL mod package plans are. Most people start throwing on parts, without regards to what they're planning on ENDING UP with. Like a guy I know that put on 1 3/4 long tubes, then bought a blower a month later. EVERYTHING INTERACTS on a motor - plan ahead on what your total package is going to end up as, then buy accordingly.
Rick
It all depends on what your FINAL mod package plans are. Most people start throwing on parts, without regards to what they're planning on ENDING UP with. Like a guy I know that put on 1 3/4 long tubes, then bought a blower a month later. EVERYTHING INTERACTS on a motor - plan ahead on what your total package is going to end up as, then buy accordingly.
Rick
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 322
From: Raleigh NC
Originally Posted by SickRick
Running AFR 225/70cc for my boosted application. Thier flow #'s are better than most, and they are a time-proven application. Heads alone will not yield the kind of HP/TQ #'s that a good cam or head/cam combo will.
It all depends on what your FINAL mod package plans are. Most people start throwing on parts, without regards to what they're planning on ENDING UP with. Like a guy I know that put on 1 3/4 long tubes, then bought a blower a month later. EVERYTHING INTERACTS on a motor - plan ahead on what your total package is going to end up as, then buy accordingly.
Rick
It all depends on what your FINAL mod package plans are. Most people start throwing on parts, without regards to what they're planning on ENDING UP with. Like a guy I know that put on 1 3/4 long tubes, then bought a blower a month later. EVERYTHING INTERACTS on a motor - plan ahead on what your total package is going to end up as, then buy accordingly.
Rick
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,477
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From: Boca Raton, FL
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
I'm using AFR 225 heads that were milled to 68cc and a 10.6:1 compressions ratio. With these I have a 224/230 581/592 cam, dynatech headers and corsa sports. Will wind up with a Procharger D-1SC this month. Pick the heads to compliment everything else already on the car and those to be added. In other words, plan ahead. 