No forged internals???
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 26
From: Delaware
Originally Posted by Tommy D
Most of the breakage is attributable to excessive wheel hop. Guys with six speeds who did not realize they were experiencing wheel hop/ or realized it too late to let up on the throttle. Then some guys with slicks/drag radials got too good a bite and boom. You can do a search on the forum.
Please see below post from DTE
"We have noticed quite a lot of folks breaking driveline components regularly lately at various power levels regardless of the driveline upgrades one has, so we thought we would chime in here to offer our expertise on the matter based on our direct experience, as we've seen it all at one time or another....many times over.
FYI:
Just so we're on the same page here before all of this is written~ If you are going to go racing with the C5/C6 Corvette, you *MUST* strengthen the driveline to support the abuses and stresses of racing....period. It doesn't matter who you are or how lucky you think you are, you cannot escape the Laws of Physics and you *WILL* break something sooner or later, no matter how well something is built. No one is exempt from this and the sooner you realize that, the easier it will be to accept when something breaks at some point. Even professional NHRA drag racers break the most exotic driveline/engine parts day-in and day-out, but they expect the inevitable and accept it as a by-product of going faster...faster...faster.
The first and foremost best way to avoid any type of driveline failure with the C5/C6 Corvette regardless of what fortification level your driveline is currently at, is to incorperate simple common sense with your foot... Contrary to what folks would like to believe, the C5/C6 Corvette is a street car *NOT* a tube-chassis, solid-axle, full-tilt drag car that can withstand John Force-type punishment round after round without incident, therefore don't drive the car that way thinking you have something you don't.
However, the C5/C6 Corvette driveline/chassis/engine can be built *VERY* strong and the engine's in these cars obviously produce exceptional power, but in the end, it is still an IRS-driveline with stock-type suspension, relatively heavy, stock chassis and a rather unusual power delivery path from the engine to the wheels; therefore there will always be some form of limitations with regards to the driveline when compared to a full-tilt, purpose-built, solid axle racing car.
Wheel Hop:
Oversimplified- Professional race cars have it and it's called tire-shake; C5/C6 Corvettes have it and it's called wheel hop.
This condition is *EXTREMELY* destructive and will fracture even the best of parts offered from whom-ever, so don't think that you can simply "drive through it" and not fracture the driveline in some fashion eventually.. If the car tramps.....*LIFT*! Your ego might be temporarily bruised for not making a good showing at the track in front of your buddies, but your wallet with thank you later when you don't have to repair a severly damaged driveline.
There is no one-silver-bullet fix for this negative condition and it is caused by unusual suspension wind-up deflection during acceleration. In order to *completely* eliminate destructive wheel-hop in these cars, you'll have to upgrade the soft, stock shocks (all 4 not just the rear) with adjustable units, use the proper racing tire with correct tire pressures for the application, (and no, a drag radial is not that...) replace the overly-soft rubber suspension bushings with high quality polyurethane components, (all 4 corners, not just the rear) and have the chassis dynamically aligned while placed under a suspension load that simulates the wheel position during a launch event.
Don't skimp!!!! You *MUST* perform *all* 4 of these upgrades to your Corvette car to maximize the true benefits of the modification, which rewards the driver with fewer broken driveline components overall, greater success at the track and a car that lanches much straighter/cleaner. I don't know how many times I've seen or been told that someone "thought they didn't need that" for whatever reason and then they are scratching their heads when their car shatters the driveline...
If you cheap-out on any one of these 4 upgrades to your car, you will only be cheating yourself and increase the likelihood that your car will expereince complete, catastrophic driveline failure. No one is exempt from the Laws of Physics, so don't think that you can "get away" without any one of the recommendations described above for very long, as the the Laws of Probability will also eventually catch up you...
Maintainance:
IRS-equipped cars will inherently require more maintainance to sustain durability over time, by design. If you neglect the driveline, it will fail you....period! Change the burned lubricants *VERY* frequently, inspect the nuts/bolts for tightness regularly and always keep on the look out for hairline cracks that form because of metallurgical fatige. Many times a potential problem can be found *BEFORE* a catastrophic failure occurs if the owner will just be viligent in checking these areas.
Misc.:
Install a line-lock!! There is nothing harder on a driveline or overheats the differential/transmisison more than smashing the brakes down while trying to do a full-power, big burn-out.... Those are two opposing forces that induce a *LOT* of driveline stress when paired against each other. The by=product of this is eventually burning up the brakes up on the car and/or burning up the differential/trans from excessive heat. Install a line-lock that allows a free wheel burn-out of the rear tires, so that the only item that experiences any real heat are the the intended tires.
Allow sufficient vehicle cool-down between runs. Even professional racers allow their cars to cool between rounds and their cars are built purposely for racing! You need to do the same for your street car... Hot-lapping rounds is neat, but you car suffers for it eventually.
This is long-winded, my fingers are sore from typing and it's about all that I can think of off the top of my head at the moment. There are countless other tips to prolong the life of any race car, as I'm sure some will chime in with additionally.
The bottom line: There are some folks racing the C5/C6 Corvette that can go round-after-round through nearly the entire season without hardly ever breaking one thing; but then there are those that will consistantly break anything, built by anyone, no matter what it is, at their first few times on the track.. Chances are the guys that aren't breaking things reguraly are the guys that have done what is described above to their car and excercise common sense while racing their Corvette to prolong its life. Their racing efforts don't cost them as much, they don't break as often and they have fun week-after-week.
To those that break parts consistantly~ follow their successful lead and you'll have a lot more fun overall. Most of all, racing is racing and you *WILL* break parts, so the sooner you accept that, the easier it will be to accept the reality of fixing your car when it goes down. If you can't afford to repair your car when parts eventually break....don't go racing in the first place, as there are *NO* gaurantees for anything in racing...
A lot of this was oversimplified for time purposes, otherwise I would be here for days typing, but I hope this helps some of you understand a bit easier. Happy motoring gents and if any of you have any questions, please call to ask and I cover it further."
Best Regards,
Phil
Dynotech Engineering Inc.
Please see below post from DTE
"We have noticed quite a lot of folks breaking driveline components regularly lately at various power levels regardless of the driveline upgrades one has, so we thought we would chime in here to offer our expertise on the matter based on our direct experience, as we've seen it all at one time or another....many times over.
FYI:
Just so we're on the same page here before all of this is written~ If you are going to go racing with the C5/C6 Corvette, you *MUST* strengthen the driveline to support the abuses and stresses of racing....period. It doesn't matter who you are or how lucky you think you are, you cannot escape the Laws of Physics and you *WILL* break something sooner or later, no matter how well something is built. No one is exempt from this and the sooner you realize that, the easier it will be to accept when something breaks at some point. Even professional NHRA drag racers break the most exotic driveline/engine parts day-in and day-out, but they expect the inevitable and accept it as a by-product of going faster...faster...faster.
The first and foremost best way to avoid any type of driveline failure with the C5/C6 Corvette regardless of what fortification level your driveline is currently at, is to incorperate simple common sense with your foot... Contrary to what folks would like to believe, the C5/C6 Corvette is a street car *NOT* a tube-chassis, solid-axle, full-tilt drag car that can withstand John Force-type punishment round after round without incident, therefore don't drive the car that way thinking you have something you don't.
However, the C5/C6 Corvette driveline/chassis/engine can be built *VERY* strong and the engine's in these cars obviously produce exceptional power, but in the end, it is still an IRS-driveline with stock-type suspension, relatively heavy, stock chassis and a rather unusual power delivery path from the engine to the wheels; therefore there will always be some form of limitations with regards to the driveline when compared to a full-tilt, purpose-built, solid axle racing car.
Wheel Hop:
Oversimplified- Professional race cars have it and it's called tire-shake; C5/C6 Corvettes have it and it's called wheel hop.
This condition is *EXTREMELY* destructive and will fracture even the best of parts offered from whom-ever, so don't think that you can simply "drive through it" and not fracture the driveline in some fashion eventually.. If the car tramps.....*LIFT*! Your ego might be temporarily bruised for not making a good showing at the track in front of your buddies, but your wallet with thank you later when you don't have to repair a severly damaged driveline.
There is no one-silver-bullet fix for this negative condition and it is caused by unusual suspension wind-up deflection during acceleration. In order to *completely* eliminate destructive wheel-hop in these cars, you'll have to upgrade the soft, stock shocks (all 4 not just the rear) with adjustable units, use the proper racing tire with correct tire pressures for the application, (and no, a drag radial is not that...) replace the overly-soft rubber suspension bushings with high quality polyurethane components, (all 4 corners, not just the rear) and have the chassis dynamically aligned while placed under a suspension load that simulates the wheel position during a launch event.
Don't skimp!!!! You *MUST* perform *all* 4 of these upgrades to your Corvette car to maximize the true benefits of the modification, which rewards the driver with fewer broken driveline components overall, greater success at the track and a car that lanches much straighter/cleaner. I don't know how many times I've seen or been told that someone "thought they didn't need that" for whatever reason and then they are scratching their heads when their car shatters the driveline...
If you cheap-out on any one of these 4 upgrades to your car, you will only be cheating yourself and increase the likelihood that your car will expereince complete, catastrophic driveline failure. No one is exempt from the Laws of Physics, so don't think that you can "get away" without any one of the recommendations described above for very long, as the the Laws of Probability will also eventually catch up you...
Maintainance:
IRS-equipped cars will inherently require more maintainance to sustain durability over time, by design. If you neglect the driveline, it will fail you....period! Change the burned lubricants *VERY* frequently, inspect the nuts/bolts for tightness regularly and always keep on the look out for hairline cracks that form because of metallurgical fatige. Many times a potential problem can be found *BEFORE* a catastrophic failure occurs if the owner will just be viligent in checking these areas.
Misc.:
Install a line-lock!! There is nothing harder on a driveline or overheats the differential/transmisison more than smashing the brakes down while trying to do a full-power, big burn-out.... Those are two opposing forces that induce a *LOT* of driveline stress when paired against each other. The by=product of this is eventually burning up the brakes up on the car and/or burning up the differential/trans from excessive heat. Install a line-lock that allows a free wheel burn-out of the rear tires, so that the only item that experiences any real heat are the the intended tires.
Allow sufficient vehicle cool-down between runs. Even professional racers allow their cars to cool between rounds and their cars are built purposely for racing! You need to do the same for your street car... Hot-lapping rounds is neat, but you car suffers for it eventually.
This is long-winded, my fingers are sore from typing and it's about all that I can think of off the top of my head at the moment. There are countless other tips to prolong the life of any race car, as I'm sure some will chime in with additionally.
The bottom line: There are some folks racing the C5/C6 Corvette that can go round-after-round through nearly the entire season without hardly ever breaking one thing; but then there are those that will consistantly break anything, built by anyone, no matter what it is, at their first few times on the track.. Chances are the guys that aren't breaking things reguraly are the guys that have done what is described above to their car and excercise common sense while racing their Corvette to prolong its life. Their racing efforts don't cost them as much, they don't break as often and they have fun week-after-week.
To those that break parts consistantly~ follow their successful lead and you'll have a lot more fun overall. Most of all, racing is racing and you *WILL* break parts, so the sooner you accept that, the easier it will be to accept the reality of fixing your car when it goes down. If you can't afford to repair your car when parts eventually break....don't go racing in the first place, as there are *NO* gaurantees for anything in racing...
A lot of this was oversimplified for time purposes, otherwise I would be here for days typing, but I hope this helps some of you understand a bit easier. Happy motoring gents and if any of you have any questions, please call to ask and I cover it further."
Best Regards,
Phil
Dynotech Engineering Inc.
Basically it's the same thing I ran into with my 03 Cobra. The dredded wheel hop. Had it happen to me and I never drag raced the car after that. I just exercised it when the oppertunity presented itself but only from a roll. I'd drive the C6 the same way so this shouldn't be an issue for me.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 26
From: Delaware
Originally Posted by Maui
Pick up the new Car and Driver. They compared the GT500 to the Vette and the Vette won and I'm not talking Z06 either. The GT500 weighs 615 more pounds than the Vette and no where near as agile.
At 35 - 40 grand the cars a good deal. At 44 + grand, which is where most of them will price out at, it's not. This is going to cause a lot of guys who were interested in the GT500 to do what I'm doing, looking at/buying the C6 instead. Just go over to SVTPerformance.com and read the many threads where guys are saying the Vette's the better car and the better value.
