C6 Tech/Performance LS2, LS3, LS7, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Tech Topics, Basic Tech, Maintenance, How to Remove & Replace
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Bad oil pump?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 22, 2006 | 11:16 PM
  #21  
Tommy D's Avatar
Tommy D
Le Mans Master
10 Year Member
St. Jude 10 Year Donor
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,259
Likes: 16
From: Monroe Township New Jersey
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
St. Jude donor in memory of jpee '14
Default

Originally Posted by kwiktsi
Once again guys, I know "right" from wrong- there was absolutely no debris in the pan, no aluminum shavings, no chunks, metallic residue- nothing, the bottom end was clean and new. All the bearings look brand new, the filter had nothing in it (cut it open earlier just to be sure since you guys are pushing the debris issue). If it broke a piston and did more damage than what it was, I would have pulled it, torn the whole thing down and gone forged. There is no way there was any further damage than the broken piston- this is not my first time repairing a broken motor. I came here, not to act like I know more than I do- but to ask what would prevent the lifters from pumping up aside from the basics in case there is any LSx specific quirk I am not familiar with. There are many people who rebuild these motors and just put assembly lube in the pump and make sure the bearings are coated fine and they have no issues just starting it up and let it build pressure, so I can't see how a motor that was already "wet" inside can't pump the lifters- and I am wondering if there is anything else to look for.

Also- I just took the pump out and apart, and as I suspected- it is like new inside, no damage, galling, DEBRIS, etc. The bypass was clean and moving freely, etc.. The pick up o-ring was damage free and properly seated also, so I am stumped here. I can't see all 16 lifters going bad, so it has to be something else. Either it just is air locked up top for some odd reason (although it has been running long enough, it should have passed) or something else. Anyone ever use the Trick Flow pushrods? Those are the only other things changed, but they are a simple part, can't see them being the problem. They are the correct length also BTW.

I came here asking those who may have encountered a similar issue what it may be and all I get is "you did it wrong"- I'm sorry if I don't completely tear down and rebuild every motor that ever has a problem. I tear it down, assess the damage and go from there. There are several motors that I have had to go through the whole thing after a break, but this motor did not and does not need it. I just need to figure out this issue, that's all. The culinder was clean, no scuffs, grooves, lines, etc., heads also held vacuum just fine. The damage and repair to the piston is absolutely not the issue here. I already pulled the pump since so many of you were convinced I did it wrong and the pump was bad for no reason- only to find it in perfect working order. I'll get it figured out. Thanks to those who have helped.
Joe

I know you checked the entire engine for debris because you know mechanics who repair automatic transmissions and fail to check the converter or trans cooler always wonder why the car came back

Ok I am not saying you did anything wrong, just trying to help out:

1.) The oil pump needs to be primed.... you know why
2.) The lifters need oil just like the oil pump..... I know you know why so I will not explain
3.) Check the bearing clearance...... You know you need to do this

I could type a list with regard to low or no oil pressure but I type really slow ............ it is much easier for you to check the shop manual.

Think about what you are doing I am sure you will figure it out all you have to do is look good luck
Reply
Old Sep 23, 2006 | 01:52 AM
  #22  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Thanks for the reply. Oil pump was good, bypass valve was good, bearings look brand new, not worn through anywhere- I really don't think it is a clearance issue- it was good before and should be now. I'm putting a gauge on it tomorrow to check pressure, but I think I figured it out. I'll know more tomorrow and post my findings- if it is what I think, it was my fault and hopefully the lifters will still be good.. Though, I do remember hearing a slight tick before pulling it apart and thought it was from the bent pushrods, but now I am wondering if there were a couple of toasted lifters from then also. I'll have results tomorrow. Thanks again!
Joe
Reply
Old Sep 23, 2006 | 12:55 PM
  #23  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Well, it wasn't what I was hoping. I am stumped here. I am going nuts, I even pulled the trick flow pushrods out and put the stockers back in case they were causing it (even though they are a simple design). I put an oil pressure gauge in it and the pressure is ~35-40 at idle and ~80 psi by 4000-4500, so I can't see that being the problem- unless the LS2 is supposed to be higher? Compression is good accross the board, so it is not like it has bent valves causing valvetrain slack. I am wondering if the lifters **** the bed, but I can't see why they would be ok before and dead now unless they lost their pump from sitting and they just self destructed or something. I don't think I am pulling the heads today- I'm sick of working on it. I want to find out more about the oil pressure before I pull anything else apart, but I think it is ok. Thanks again for the advice guys.
Joe
Reply
Old Sep 23, 2006 | 05:06 PM
  #24  
VET4LES's Avatar
VET4LES
Team Owner
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 27,420
Likes: 64
From: San Clemente CA
Default

Are the rocker arms adjustable? I have not worked on the LS2 but even with hydraulic lifters they must be adjusted.
Reply
Old Sep 23, 2006 | 06:58 PM
  #25  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Originally Posted by VET4LES
Are the rocker arms adjustable? I have not worked on the LS2 but even with hydraulic lifters they must be adjusted.
Nope . I think I know what happened, and it may have taken my lifters out. If I am going to pull them and check them, but for the couple hundred dollars- I'm just going to replace them anyway to be safe. Oh well, taking the night off, having a couple of drinks and forgetting about the car for tonight. Thanks.
Joe
Reply
Old Sep 23, 2006 | 08:10 PM
  #26  
saplumr's Avatar
saplumr
Race Director
Supporting Lifetime
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,555
Likes: 1,255
From: Saint Albans, WV
Default

"IF" this is on a C6 how do you not have the dash gauge and DIC gauge to check oil pressure from the beginning? If your car has the HUD, 2 things will happen if low oil pressure occurs.
(1) An alarm will sound
(2) Your HUD will display "CHECK GAUGES"

Last edited by saplumr; Sep 23, 2006 at 10:22 PM.
Reply
Old Sep 23, 2006 | 09:08 PM
  #27  
VET4LES's Avatar
VET4LES
Team Owner
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 27,420
Likes: 64
From: San Clemente CA
Default

Originally Posted by saplumr
"IF" this is on a C6 how do you not have the dash gauge and DIC gauge to check oil pressure from the beginning?
I wondered the same thing and forgot to ask.
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2006 | 03:46 AM
  #28  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

It is a GTO, we don't get an oil pressure gauge . I hooked a mechanical gauge up today and it looks fine, so the problem is in the lifters. I'll look more into it tomorrow. Thanks.
Joe
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)

 Joe Kucinski
story-4

Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!

 Verdad Gallardo
story-5

Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!

 Brett Foote
story-6

Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor

 Joe Kucinski
Old Sep 24, 2006 | 11:58 AM
  #29  
VET4LES's Avatar
VET4LES
Team Owner
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 27,420
Likes: 64
From: San Clemente CA
Default

A GTO and this is the C6 forum. Hmmmm.
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2006 | 12:24 PM
  #30  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Well, yes- it is an LS2, no? You guys have more experience here than I see on a lot of GTO forums, so why would I not ask the people with more experience? Is there a problem with a lowly GTO owner posting on a Corvette forum ? I came here for the knowledge a lot of you have, not because I have the same car as you.

Joe
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2006 | 01:01 PM
  #31  
Z06 Steve's Avatar
Z06 Steve
Burning Brakes
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,196
Likes: 4
From: Latham NY
Default

LS1tech.com is also a good site with a LS2 tech section....good luck
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2006 | 01:12 PM
  #32  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Yes, I agree- but I have seen and personally had several questions go unanswered there. I got it situated though, thanks.
Joe
Reply
Old Sep 24, 2006 | 01:13 PM
  #33  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Just noticed you are from Albany- do you go to the "lot" also? I lived up there for a few years, the car scene is unreal! Do you know Russ (Doc Z) or any of the other guys?
Joe
Reply
Old Sep 27, 2006 | 04:27 PM
  #34  
UDRIVESLOW's Avatar
UDRIVESLOW
Racer
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
From: odessa TX
Default

if you need help with any technical questions please anyone
email me and i will help out...
i do this day in and day out..
prime oil pump?
sorry no...
what did you torque the harmonic balancer to?
did you install a new harmonic balancer washer between the oil pump and balancer?
email questions and comments to udriveslow@yahoo.com
i do this as a hobby on my spare time(i actualy work for a living)
so ill get back as quick as possable...
ERNEST
Reply
Old Sep 29, 2006 | 06:07 PM
  #35  
Cjunkie's Avatar
Cjunkie
Safety Car
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,008
Likes: 1,487
From: Ashland, OH
Default

Originally Posted by TrackNoob
"there is none so blind as he who will not see...."

Okay, I was gingerly polite, but now I am going to be direct, but all in an attempt to help you:

You are a conflicted person. Just like Steve Irwin, you claim you know what you are doing, and yet something unexpected has happened that you failed to understand. With him, he had previous nips, bites, scratches, near misses, public concern, offical inquiry, media backlash, friendly warnings, unfriendly warnings, was drug by his pants, fell down, was dragged into water, slipped, and yet somehow he could claim with a straight face that he had it all under control even in light of all those many precursors and portents. Of course he is a dead man now....

Likewise, you are puzzled enough to reach out for input, but you think you will know what you ought to hear when you hear it, but you didn't know it enough to avoid needing to ask.

So I say again: I don't care if you think it spit most of the piston out of the exhaust; when you have parts coming loose in a recipricating assembly, when you subsequently disassemble it for repairs, ALWAYS use a BRAND new oil pump.

There, how's that?

altho i have never opened up an LSx engine but coming over from drag racing 5.0's for almost 15 yrs i can tell you ANYTIME i opened the pan it got a BRAND NEW oil pump i dont care if it had 1000 mi or 100000 miles anytime the pan came off it got a new oil pump and pickup....16.95 for a SBF oil pump was way to cheap of insurance, never had a problem.
Reply
Old Oct 2, 2006 | 11:44 PM
  #36  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Well, it is fixed- did not need a pump, did not need a complete rebuild, etc.. The oil pressure is good, motor runs strong, leak down is perfect and the compression is excellent.

The problem was part my fault and part the people I got my parts from. They sent me an LS1 headgasket, not an LS2 by mistake. It is my fault for not catching it, but when I order from a dealer by vin #, I don't think much of it- I just *****ume it is right.. The noise was the pistons catching the edge of the gasket. I was PISSED when I found out what it was, but it is all taken care of now.

Thanks to those who helped without insult.
Joe
Reply
Old Oct 2, 2006 | 11:49 PM
  #37  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Originally Posted by Cjunkie
altho i have never opened up an LSx engine but coming over from drag racing 5.0's for almost 15 yrs i can tell you ANYTIME i opened the pan it got a BRAND NEW oil pump i dont care if it had 1000 mi or 100000 miles anytime the pan came off it got a new oil pump and pickup....16.95 for a SBF oil pump was way to cheap of insurance, never had a problem.
I guess for 16.95, it's worth it- but I have yet to encounter a failed oil pump on anything with less than 175-200k miles on it (aside from blown motors that left crap in them them) in my years working as a mechanic. I take that back, I have seen a couple LSx bypass issues- but even then, the pump is still physically good, it just get's changed at that point anyway. I have worked on more than a few small blocks that came in as "bad oil pumps" that it turned out the pickup fell off of them. New pump, tack weld the pickup, check the bearings and send it on it's way- this was mostly plow trucks and the like.

Oh well, everyone has their own experience and their idea of right and wrong. That's why they say to each his own .
Joe
Reply

Get notified of new replies

To Bad oil pump?

Old Oct 3, 2006 | 04:03 PM
  #38  
NORTY's Avatar
NORTY
Race Director
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,275
Likes: 942
From: Carlsbad Ca
Default

8400rpm? Let's not do that again!
Reply
Old Oct 3, 2006 | 09:50 PM
  #39  
TrackNoob's Avatar
TrackNoob
Melting Slicks
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,713
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by kwiktsi
Well, it is fixed- did not need a pump, did not need a complete rebuild, etc.. The oil pressure is good, motor runs strong, leak down is perfect and the compression is excellent.

The problem was part my fault and part the people I got my parts from. They sent me an LS1 headgasket, not an LS2 by mistake. It is my fault for not catching it, but when I order from a dealer by vin #, I don't think much of it- I just *****ume it is right.. The noise was the pistons catching the edge of the gasket. I was PISSED when I found out what it was, but it is all taken care of now.

Thanks to those who helped without insult.
Joe
Weird.

So on this block:


With this piston:



and this head:



Not only did we miss the mis-match in bore size between block and gasket on the build up, but the flat top piston is also contacting the gasket, and that somehow leads to loss of oil pressure/flow to upper valve train?


In any event, I'm glad you are all fixed up, whether you opted for a replacement oil pump or not. Enjoy!


Last edited by TrackNoob; Oct 3, 2006 at 09:53 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 4, 2006 | 12:40 PM
  #40  
kwiktsi's Avatar
kwiktsi
Thread Starter
Racer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 270
Likes: 1
From: Milford PA
Default

Originally Posted by NORTY
8400rpm? Let's not do that again!
I don't plan to . The thing did pull like a monster though . I tried to change the rev limiter from fuel cut to spark with HPTuners and it didn't work, I saw it go past where I set it, panicked and missed thrid- that's where the over rev came from. I want to figure out ohow to make it spark and not fuel though- I don't like fuel cut limiters on FI cars with alky lol.
Joe
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:34 AM.

story-0
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-1
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-2
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Corvette Engines RANKED by Peak Torque (70+ Years of Muscle!)

Slideshow: Ranking the top 10 Corvette engines by torque output.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 11:58:09


VIEW MORE
story-4
Corvette ZR1X Will Be Pacing the Indy 500, And Could Probably Race, Too!

Slideshow: A Corvette pace car nearly matching IndyCar speeds sounds exaggerated, until you look at the numbers.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-04 20:03:36


VIEW MORE
story-5
Top 10 Corvettes Coming to Mecum Indy 2026!

Among a rather large group of them.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-04 13:56:44


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 C9 Corvette MUST-HAVES to Fix These C8 Generation Flaws!

Slideshow: the top 10 things Corvette owners want in the C9 Corvette

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-30 12:41:15


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Revolutionary 'Corvette Firsts' Most People Don't Know

Slideshow: 10 Important Corvette 'firsts' that every fan should know.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 17:02:16


VIEW MORE
story-8
5 Reasons to Upgrade to an LS6-Powered Corvette; 5 Reasons to Stay LT2

Slideshow: Should you buy a 2020-2026 Corvette or wait for 2027?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-22 10:08:58


VIEW MORE
story-9
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every C8 vs Its Closest Competitor

Slideshow: 2027 Corvette lineup vs the world.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-24 16:12:42


VIEW MORE