LS3 engine....What are the facts on this engine????
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Pearland Texas
The only Hemi muscle they'll be going against after the first year of production is the Challenger. The local dealership has it on good autority that the Charger is gone soon, replaced by the AWD Avenger. This year it has only a 6cyl,next year it gets a hemi
AWD 425HP may be a kick in the pants. I'd still love to see a 454 designation rather than a supercharged LS9...I think they can still get the HP needed and stay NA, and revive another cool muscle car era nameplate.
AWD 425HP may be a kick in the pants. I'd still love to see a 454 designation rather than a supercharged LS9...I think they can still get the HP needed and stay NA, and revive another cool muscle car era nameplate.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 1
The Avenger is a much smaller car and is NOT going to get a HEMI. The Challenger is still a low production question mark, but it'll be a force against Mustang and any future Camaro sales. The Charger is still selling well and is not going anywhere. Lastly, why in the hell would you EVER listen to a dealer for information??!?!?
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Look at all of the NASCAR cars today. They all look identical except the decal made to look like the grill. They have absolutely zero in common with the production car. The difference between the Charger and Avenger that NASCAR uses will simpy be the decals on the car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 1
NASCAR is dropping the Charger
Look at all of the NASCAR cars today. They all look identical except the decal made to look like the grill. They have absolutely zero in common with the production car. The difference between the Charger and Avenger that NASCAR uses will simpy be the decals on the car.
Look at all of the NASCAR cars today. They all look identical except the decal made to look like the grill. They have absolutely zero in common with the production car. The difference between the Charger and Avenger that NASCAR uses will simpy be the decals on the car.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 125
From: laguna niguel ca
The L92 will be the base engine. HP increase????
I have a stroked L92 motor in my c6 with CNC'ed L92 heads and the L76 intake. I knew this motor was comming so I jumped on it. A&A built it and it works. 525rwhp/498rwtq with a mild street cam. It's probably the first one on the west coast. It's big inches for a good price. Even in it's 6.2 liter form with the L92 heads and L76 intake, it will have lots of potential in the 08 vette. Since I was keeping the car for a few more years I decided to go for it. No regrets. It's a beast, power everywhere!
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,430
Likes: 81
From: Whidbey Island WA
Im sorry but this is not correct. They did not let them lapse, the loss was due to litigation. As I said "...it would be unusual...". This is true and finding an exception to the rule does not change the rule. Even if DC had let the rights lapse it would not have been on purpose but rather a huge career ending mistake by ONE of the people who's job consists entirely of looking after and protecting the company's copyrights.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,707
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
True, that's why I added the disclaimer that "even if it does offer much more than simply a bigger motor" and those of us in the know will agree that it's still worth almost every penny of that $22k premium over the base car but it's the Corvette layman that might question why a mere 70hp increase costs so much more in an otherwise similar looking car. 
Then again if it does hurt Z06 sales slightly but increases regular C6 sales then GM/Chevrolet still wins because there's likely more profit in the base cars then there is in the ultra high tech, exotic material laden, more costly to warranty Z06.
Then again if it does hurt Z06 sales slightly but increases regular C6 sales then GM/Chevrolet still wins because there's likely more profit in the base cars then there is in the ultra high tech, exotic material laden, more costly to warranty Z06.
I can't imagine a lot of Z06 buyers going for the base car because it's only 50hp difference if the rest of the handling package isn't there to make it outperform the above mentioned competitors. Sure they can apply aftermarket mods to get the straight line acceleration but it will still never compete for the "N'ring times" like the current model does. Those big brakes, wheels, tires, aluminum and carbon fiber parts all add up to supercar status. THAT is what they're buying. If you've got $75k for a car, you normally don't care to save $22k and tell everybody your car is ALMOST as good as a Viper, Porsche and Ferrari.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes: 1
From a YAHOO car archive:
[QUOTE]Dodge's supercar gets the SRT-10 badge as someone already owns the rights to 'Viper'. Despite this legal technicality its unlikely that anyone other Dodge's staff will ever refer to it as SRT-10.
Immediately recognisable as the successor to the original Viper, the long, wide and low sports car is a brutal looking machine, defined by its chromed alloy wheels, snake-head badge and massively long snout.[QUOTE]
if it's incorrect, it's their fault, not mine....
[QUOTE]Dodge's supercar gets the SRT-10 badge as someone already owns the rights to 'Viper'. Despite this legal technicality its unlikely that anyone other Dodge's staff will ever refer to it as SRT-10.
Immediately recognisable as the successor to the original Viper, the long, wide and low sports car is a brutal looking machine, defined by its chromed alloy wheels, snake-head badge and massively long snout.[QUOTE]
if it's incorrect, it's their fault, not mine....
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Pro
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 509
Likes: 27
From: Azle Texas
St. Jude Donor '07
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Well, thats without saying. My statement was to show that the charger may not be long for production, not that there is any variation in the stock cars used in NASCAR. Chevy is dropping the Monte Carlo,so the NASCAR version goes bye-bye for the Impala, Dodge will be phasing out the Chargers from NASCAR, replacing them with Avengers over the next couple of seasons. This, IMO is another big indicator as to the demise of the Charger. I don't think it was ever intended to be a gen-after-gen car anyways, kinda like the upcoming Challenger, a few years in production, some special editions,and see ya later. It makes good economical sense, if you don't have a promising re-design, kill it and move on. Pontiac did with the GTO.
The Avenger is the natural enemy to the cars that Ford and GM run in Nascar. They are all now front drive cars that they put the decal on the front of in NASCAR versions.
I don't know why you think the Charger is destined for a short life. GM and Ford are now working hard to prepare rear wheel drive (with IRS) cars to compete directly with the 300 and Charger due to their success in knocking the Impala and Ford Taurus/500 on the ***.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 137
From: Short Hills, NJ
I agree with all you say but you also have to add that many people don't buy the Z06 because of the extra 100hp, they buy it because it's equal or better performance than Vipers, Porsches and Ferraris on the track. Even though they will never track it.
I can't imagine a lot of Z06 buyers going for the base car because it's only 50hp difference if the rest of the handling package isn't there to make it outperform the above mentioned competitors. Sure they can apply aftermarket mods to get the straight line acceleration but it will still never compete for the "N'ring times" like the current model does. Those big brakes, wheels, tires, aluminum and carbon fiber parts all add up to supercar status. THAT is what they're buying.
I can't imagine a lot of Z06 buyers going for the base car because it's only 50hp difference if the rest of the handling package isn't there to make it outperform the above mentioned competitors. Sure they can apply aftermarket mods to get the straight line acceleration but it will still never compete for the "N'ring times" like the current model does. Those big brakes, wheels, tires, aluminum and carbon fiber parts all add up to supercar status. THAT is what they're buying.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
I agree with all you say but you also have to add that many people don't buy the Z06 because of the extra 100hp, they buy it because it's equal or better performance than Vipers, Porsches and Ferraris on the track. Even though they will never track it.
I can't imagine a lot of Z06 buyers going for the base car because it's only 50hp difference if the rest of the handling package isn't there to make it outperform the above mentioned competitors. Sure they can apply aftermarket mods to get the straight line acceleration but it will still never compete for the "N'ring times" like the current model does. Those big brakes, wheels, tires, aluminum and carbon fiber parts all add up to supercar status. THAT is what they're buying. If you've got $75k for a car, you normally don't care to save $22k and tell everybody your car is ALMOST as good as a Viper, Porsche and Ferrari.
I can't imagine a lot of Z06 buyers going for the base car because it's only 50hp difference if the rest of the handling package isn't there to make it outperform the above mentioned competitors. Sure they can apply aftermarket mods to get the straight line acceleration but it will still never compete for the "N'ring times" like the current model does. Those big brakes, wheels, tires, aluminum and carbon fiber parts all add up to supercar status. THAT is what they're buying. If you've got $75k for a car, you normally don't care to save $22k and tell everybody your car is ALMOST as good as a Viper, Porsche and Ferrari.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
Likes: 2,596
From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Feel free to mark this post and either call me very smart or very stupid two years from now.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
However, it isn't actually the number of buyers but rather the number who choose to spend that amount of money, and spend it on a Corvette.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,707
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles
Feel free to mark this post and either call me very smart or very stupid two years from now.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
Furthermore, there is no shortage of two seat $80k+ buyers. Porsche has built their entire business model on it and they are doing very well. I could be wrong but I think if the Corvette continues to give us amazing performance and value, they will continue to sell. Of course, as you say, sales will slow and msrp+ will go away but they will still sell until they give us the next generation of improvements.
On another note, all these improvements and advances in hp will hit the proverbial brickwall soon and family sedans will all catch up and have 11 second 1/4 mile times. So there will be other factors that we aren't even thinking of that will surface in the future that will excite buyers.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 78
From: Miami FL
2020 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16,'17,'18-'19-'20-'21-'22
Two out of Three ain't bad . . .
The engine will NOT be built by Chevy, but by GM Powertrain Division. Just like the car is not built by Chevy, but by GM Assembly Division.
The branded car (and truck) divisions are strictly marketing and sales organizations.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,534
Likes: 4
From: Hollywood FL
Feel free to mark this post and either call me very smart or very stupid two years from now.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
The Z06 is likely to die a sad death in a couple of years. The car is approaching $80,000 now with typical options. The number of buyers for two seat, manual transmission $80,000 cars is pretty slim, and GM is just building too many of them. The market is going to saturate and the sales will plummet within probably the next 18 months. You can look at sales of the Viper, and look at history - the ZR-1 went through just that kind of cycle.
The reason I bring this up is that taking the base car to 450 hp is not going to kill the Z06 - that will happen anyway. That actually makes 450 in the base car seem like a good way to keep everyone happy.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
And you make some good points as well. But, the Viper still doesn't have the value of a Z06 and the ZR1 in relative terms was WAAY over priced. It was double the base coupe and didn't offer anything but the 100hp and more weight. That would be like the Z06 costing $110k without the aluminum, carbon fiber, brakes and wheels.
Furthermore, there is no shortage of two seat $80k+ buyers. Porsche has built their entire business model on it and they are doing very well. I could be wrong but I think if the Corvette continues to give us amazing performance and value, they will continue to sell. Of course, as you say, sales will slow and msrp+ will go away but they will still sell until they give us the next generation of improvements.
On another note, all these improvements and advances in hp will hit the proverbial brickwall soon and family sedans will all catch up and have 11 second 1/4 mile times. So there will be other factors that we aren't even thinking of that will surface in the future that will excite buyers.
Furthermore, there is no shortage of two seat $80k+ buyers. Porsche has built their entire business model on it and they are doing very well. I could be wrong but I think if the Corvette continues to give us amazing performance and value, they will continue to sell. Of course, as you say, sales will slow and msrp+ will go away but they will still sell until they give us the next generation of improvements.
On another note, all these improvements and advances in hp will hit the proverbial brickwall soon and family sedans will all catch up and have 11 second 1/4 mile times. So there will be other factors that we aren't even thinking of that will surface in the future that will excite buyers.
All good debate
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,430
Likes: 81
From: Whidbey Island WA
Actually, the ZR1 had some pretty exotic stuff as well. The engine was an entirely purpose built engine that had zero in common with any GM engine, and was built by Merury Marine. Also, don't forget that it also had a "wide body" kit. I agree that it's pricing was a little more out of line, but not double (look it up).
All good debate
All good debate
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
I agree with your points in concept. A couple thoughts though... Seems to me that the current Z has more real cred across a greater spectrum of buyers than the ZR1 did when I look back on it. Also its not just about performance for many people and IMO C6 is the first time the vette has had an interior that wont instantly chase off certain buyers. Its my thought that the C6Z has a wider market than the ZR1 did. Is it enough to continue? My guess would be it depends on production numbers. I share your doubts at the current volume, Im thinking viper type numbers might be more realistic.
BTW, are you done fishing yet? I was up your way three weeks ago, you wife said to tell you "Hi"!
