has anyone like me considered a stealth cam for their LS3?...It is kinda fun to look at all those big horsepower numbers provided by a lot of the threads in this section..but to retain the refinement of the stock or near stock motor is my goal ..also headers are not in the equation. Anyone have experience with the following: 1) LPE GT2-3 2) LPE GT11 3)MTI 4) Thunder Racing CHEATR 1 or 2 5) LS7 cam

 

Why waste your time and $$ to put a cam in the motor when you say "headers are not in the equation"?

If you're unable/unwilling to do bolt-ons I just dont understand this mentality.

 

Don't waste your money with a cam install if your not going to let the motor breathe with headers. Very little benefit. The only other way is to use forced induction about $8500 installed and tuned. It might be the only legal way to go anymore.

 

Some people, myself included, are not willing to install headers because of the possibility (or probability in some locations) of failing the visual emissions test....

 

the Cheatr is designed for stock exh manifolds--I dont think it is a waste but maybe not as effective.

 

Tell them the headers are a factory part or that they aren't headers, they are just a high performance manifold. Who are they to challenge you?

Either way, headers are a prerequisite to any performance package.

 

I think you need to move! Especially if you're doing what your sig says to your LS3 w/o headers!

 

Yes you can get good gains from a cam with stock manifolds, but your upside potential is limited. If you want 450 HP, it isn't going to happen without headers. You definitely want a big split like the cheater. Doing a cam allows you to shift the powerband around too. On the CheaTR I'd tighten up the LSA bit, especially if you want a bit more in the midrange or low end. No reason not to run -4 to -8 overlap or just tad bit more.

I'd add an underdrive pulley at the same time too.

 

I dont know why you say that. A cam would benefit from having headers but the percentage of the gains you lose by not having headers with a small cam isnt much if any at all. A small cam may net the guy 30hp at peak with eaders and 28 without them. I dont know why so many people think headers are mandatory with a cam. Similar myths are what cams work with nitrous....all of them do. I have never seen a 100 shot not make a 100hp with any cam. Another myth is that head swaps arent worth doing if you dont do a cam. The LS3's gains are almost entirely from the heads. I kind of think the LS3 'cam only' threads are somewhat false. If I put the LS3 heads on my LS2 (wait, I did) it wouldnt be considered a cam only swap if I did that but an LS3 that comes with the heads already is considered a cam only car when mated up with a cam. SLP put these heads on a LS2 and with headers, air box, and a tune they made 425rwhp and 425rwtq. About 5HP less than a LS3 with the same mods. The LS3 heads on the LS2 will net you 30hp and 40TQ....well worth doing. I would be willing to bet that any 'stealth' cam would make nearly the same power as with headers and I personally think its a valid modification with sound reasons to not do headers. Get a Thunder racing stealth cam. I think the specs arer 215/230 duration and has a nearly stock idle. You will gain 30hp from the mod. 35 on top of headers if you had done them.

I was on the phone with Dennis50nj last night talking about the fact that the LS3 heads on his car would easily put him in the 10's now with the stock cam and that an LS3 would be considered a bolt on with his mods yet the same heads on his car would not be a stock bolt-on only car.

 

Spin,
that post kind of got lost in translation on me.

So:
Nitrous good with any cam

gains on cam swaps without headers can be made

head swaps only are good too and really the main diff from the LS2 to LS3 thereby validating this point.

Heads swaps with cam swaps are better and head,cams,headers are more better.

Anything I missed?

 

GMPP website has an LS3 motor making 480 horse with just a cam change. they advertise it as a street upgrade with good manners. Wonder why they didn't use it in all LS3's? Probably cut into the Z06 sales.

 

I'm VERY new to the LS3 motor but am not to the LSx architecture. The LS1/LS6 motors did NOT respond well to just cam changes alone. I understand what SpinMonster is saying and that the heads are the big differentiator. However, there's no way I'd personally ever put the work into a cam change w/o doing air intake and exhaust mods first or in addition too.

 

I guess before I sound too antagonistic, I should ask you to define "respond well". It could be a relative thing.

For example, putting a 224/224 112 into a stock manifold car doesn't work that well and it is not surprising since the cam was designed for a car with headers. Cams with big splits and no more than zero overlap at .05 do pretty well. Add headers and they do even better.

Have you ever swapped a cam designed for stock manifolds into an LSx motor?

 

What goes in must come out! If you beef up the intake aspect of an engine, the extra air/fuel needs to be expelled accordingly!

If you dont open up the exhaust after letting more air/fuel enter the engine, it will be like you inhaling a gulp of air with your mouth
and then exhaling it through a coffee straw! I would definitely go with headers if your gonna start modding the intake. You'd be a fool not to.

 

.... 10-15hp for the cost/time of doing a cam is a crap gain IMHO.

Agreed and my point exactly.

...nope, never even heard of that until now.

 

Hmm.. Well guys put SC's on their car, make 600hp and the stock manifolds still seem to work fine.

A small to midsized cam if specd correctly should work perfrectly fine with the stock exhaust manifolds and give nice modest gains.

I like the idea actually, some of us prefer not having to worry about taking our cars to get inspected every year and worrying about someone not passing it. As far as I know, in NYS they immediately put a record into the state computer as to why the car didn't pass. Most places would pass it and not care about the visual inspection but who's to say the state or other states dont change the rules or start enforcing them more.

cam, CAI, Gears, and a tune would be a great set of mods and still retain nice quiet interior sounds as well as be far more likely to pass inspections.

supercharger would be the best for higher hp IMO but definitely more costly both initially and long term.

 

I agree that would be crap if that is all someone got. When done properly, a 25 HP gain along with solid gains in torque are achieved. For example the LS1 CheaTR made 10 - 15 ft-lbs over stock at 3000 rpm, around 20+ HP peak over stock, but at 6500 rpm the CheaaTR was making more than 40 HP over stock. It raised the shift point from 6000 - 6200 to 6500 - 6600. Thunder Racing and LPE both make stock manifold cams. The LS1 Hotcam can also be used. I've spec'ed a couple myself.

 

nice find , I think that's the way I'm gonig to go

 

'They' are the ones that pass or fail you - and in this case they are right.

I would not agree with that. See my sig. Also, most folks thing that the C6Z is a pretty good performance package. (I am using C6Z exhaust on my build - I will post the dyno )

 

Hey John saw your profile, you swaping the LS2 with a forged 415 LS3? If so WoW !