Hmmm, keep us informed as I'm very curious. It makes sense that these coils will pull more current because they are dissapating much more energy into the spark plugs than OEM's. So, it's possible the cure may be a separate "Power Harness" from the coils directly to the battery while retaining the "Signal Harness" to the computer.

As a matter of fact, I noticed some intermittant problems with an MSD 6A I installed in my Camaro many years ago. I sent the unit back to them, explained the problem over the phone, they sent the unit back to me with larger red and black wires attached to allow more current flow......it worked because I've been running with it ever since....about 10-years!

 

OK... Tell us more. Why are GM's Yukon coil packs better than GM's Corvette coil packs? Interesting...

Rob

 

 

I've heard and HAD, nothing but problems w/aftermarket coils. Furthermore, what does an MSD coil do besides lighten your wallet, than a stock coil doesn't do? Did you open the gap on your plugs to a point at which the stock coils couldn't jump the gap?

If no, then the MSD's do nothing that the stock coils were not already doing.

Again,

Furthermore, how are the MSD coils (only) firing "Multiple sparks"??? You didn't change the triggering mechanism, did you? The coils themselves don't automatically produce mulitple discharges. They require a module that forces the coils to do that.

 

How is that? The spark is still jumping the same gap, in the same cylinder, under the same pressure, at the same temperature, through the same plug (all the factors that govern resistance). How or why would the coil "dissipate more energy"??

 

Yeah Tom, my thoughts exactly. Potential across the electrodes is the same. Once it jumps it jumps. Any differences would seem negligible in real world application--multisparking aside.
They look cool though.

 

LOL! OMG! I am so amazed how you guys have the *****, the guts, the courage, or whatever (I'm being kind), to advertise to the world that not only neither of you have any knowledge in electronics nor physics, but you also don't have a single clue how MSD works!

I would actually explain it all here, but after reading your posts, I'm totally confident neither of you would still have any idea what I would be talking about.....whew, LOL, unbelievable!

 

 

 

C'mon, Rick, this isn't very helpful. With your background (From youir Profile 'bio': BS Grad from the University of Nebraska in Electrical Engineering. Post grad work at UCLA.), surely you could add something to this discussion that could benefit we readers. That's the whole idea of the Forum, isn't it?

How 'bout it... help us out here.

Have a super weekend!

Rob

 

Here is some info on the yukon coils.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...65754251&hl=en

Its not the most enlightening video. But it should work well for those with questions.

 

Huskerbullet,

Your post was mean spirited and not called for. I placed big ears on my post because I would have liked someone to explain to me why my thinking is flawed. Try us before determining that we are not capable of grasping the material.

I don't want to make this thread into something the OP did not intend but when called out like this, I have to reply.

There are many things in this world that work on paper but have no positive effect in real world application. If you want to spend a lot of money on these things and feel that you can tell a difference go ahead. Coils act as step up transformers. It is that simple. Once the energy jumps across the plug electrodes the A/F mix is lit. More energy does not light it more(except under extreme circumstances usually not found in street engines) and there are cases when the stock coils cannot keep up the charge /discharge cycle resulting in misfires(wasted energy). I do not think that the average modded vette on the street running pump gas would benefit from these coils. There are a lot of very smart guys on this forum that are looking for HP/TQ and I never see a post stating that they cant wait to get their MSD coils along with the long tube headers or CNC heads. Yes, even plug wires can be more efficient on paper but in real world applications, they will not net you anything on the average modded street engine either.

So I am glad you were able to apply your educational degrees into your engine building. The aforementioned technology does work and the science sound so you can take solace in knowing that. However, if there is a license plate attached to the car, and it is driven on the street, you might have over thought how effective the science was behind this mod.

You unwillingness to explain your position after attacking Tom and I was pompous.

Again, I am all ears if you would like to take this to a PM or start another thread so you could calmly explain your position.

 

I'd also like to add to this that I know of numerous 10, 9 and even 8 second late model LSx cars that are still using factory stock/OEM coil packs. These guys could use any parts they want on their cars but I guess there is always the chance that they haven't tried/could go faster yet with the MSD versions instead.

 

Very well said. Much more diplomatic than I would have done as well.

I will add this too: Regardless of what looks like it works on paper, you simply can not argue this fact; the money spent on coils would have netted more hp and tq if spent elsewhere on the motor. This will always be true, up to the point at which the stock coils can't jump the gap (due to the factors listed in my post above), and misfire occurs. Then there is a potential for benefit to moving to a better coil.

Huskerbullet, have you ever used an oscilloscope on a running car and watched actual firing voltages?

 

Ha, it’s funny because a few minutes after I typed that up, pressed “Submit”, and left the forum in a huff and went to bed, I realized that I might have been a little too harsh; and then thought, “…no one is gonna care anyway….”. However, by the replies here, it’s obvious I ruffled some feathers where it doesn’t really surprise me much….but you’ll notice I didn’t use any colorful metaphors to describe any of your personal attributes! LOL!

Ok, so with this in mind, I apologize to the both of you! I should have been much more tactful; tough to do sometimes at the heat of the moment, but no excuse. We’re all here to learn (and teach) if we can. Believe me, I’m here for both, learning never stops for me.

What I didn’t like were the first comments from both of you making ambiguous statements for thousands of people to read implying that you know the sciences of what is going on here with these (or any) coils. No, I won’t explain it here because I would be hijacking this thread, it’s not fair to the guy/gal who has a problem with the MSD coils who created the thread and is simply looking for an answer to solve it, which is what I was trying to…..helping them to troubleshoot their problem. I don’t mean to be a big bad meanie here, but your comments on resistors, coils, transformers, etc., are totally wrong. Each one of these components is used extensively throughout the industry for a plethora of different applications with different actions that even most engineers don’t know about. (By the way, “the modules” are imbedded in their coils with quite a bit of electronics, ok?) And, when thousands of people read this, I feel it is misleading and, therefore, an injustice to those who want a correct answer. Not only that, you were also badgering (directly or indirectly) an excellent vendor in my opinion, MSD. And, no, I don’t work for them, and yes, I’ve used a lot of their stuff for many, many years, and I like it.

Have I ever used an oscilloscope to look at the pulse on the primary and on the secondary coils within, yea, years ago; but there are even better tools such as Logic Analyzers, Spectrum Analyzers, Network Analyzers, Waveform/Pulse Synthesizers/Analyzers…well, you get the idea. And, to put bluntly, there IS more current needed by these coils because there IS more energy being dissipated through the spark plugs because there are a “train” of sparks (pulses) for each compression stroke, not just one. That’s what makes them neat! Multiple Spark Discharge, make sense? Enough physics here….I’m starting to hijack the thread, sorry about that.

So, all this now said and done, I have no ill feelings against you guys, and maybe you were just trying to invoke a science exam on me for answers…..again, both of us would be hijacking this thread if I complied, so not here. Bygones?

Now, back to the issue; I was ready to purchase these MSD coils when I came upon this thread with interest. I feel there could be a small design issue such that the engineers there thought (calculated) the onboard Corvette wiring harness was large enough to handle the extra current needed to operate these coils. I’ll bet that some Vette’s wouldn’t have that problem, and other Vette’s would. So, the design could be on a threshold of either pass or fail depending upon the Vette. I quickly determined if the current flow is indeed the problem (by them telling him to remove two coils and, guess what, no more problem), then it’s not the internal electronics that trigger the coils. Therefore, a possible immediate fix would be to create an extra harness connected to the battery, or elsewhere appropriate, to handle the coils current flow only. I actually have a design in my head as I type this to make that work (and it would be a lot of work), but I want to know what the MSD engineers come up with and how fast they can make this manufacturing correction, if needed, before they ship out any more kits. If it is not an electrical current problem, my curiosity is extremely high as to what it really is. So, my purchase for these is, of course, on hold until we all know the answer…..I’ll be waiting. Keep in mind, once they figure it out and correct it, their product just got better for the rest of us.

 

My contact at MSD, who was suspose to call me back, has yet to call. Somehow, this doesn't surprise me. The first person I talked to was a condesending jerk. After a 15 minute conversation, finally convinencing him that my problem was a direct result of installing their coil packs, he handed me off to another tech. This fellow again questioned me, implying I had installed them incorrectly. This did not create much confidence in MSD, as a monkey could install them, and his suggestion told me that he really did not know much about his own product. Finally talked to a fellow that seemed interested in finding someone to help solve my problem. He's the one with the "I'll check with an engineer, and get back with you" quote. That was early on Thursday. Not a word since then. Guess it will be Monday at the earliest. Bottom line, their coils are coming off the car this morning and the stock ones going back on. The real ****y part of this is that I bought these from a forum member and I don't think I have any recourse against MSD in an attempt to recover my $$$.

 

Katech sells a coil relocation kit.

I wounder if they have experienced simular problems with aftermarket coils and could contribute to the conversation?

http://www.katechengines.com/street_...etail.php?id=4

My inspiration......(photo of C/F member "Mardis Gras" engine bay)
I just needed to purchase the valve covers to complete....now on hold.

 

To the OP:

How many wires connect to the (each) coil? I'd guess two (plus the plug wire). Is that correct?

 

How noble. Do you know anything about my personal attributes??

Multiple sparks makes sense. But not your claims omniscient knowledge of how it works. I don't believe any of the above is true. If it is true that the coil can create multiple sparks by itself (w/no trigger from outside), tell us how.

You already did hijack this thread w/that novel of a post that didn't address anything other than how much smarter you are then everyone else. In that same amount of space you could have at least attempted to "school" us.

You "talk above us", like you're so much better than us lowly folk, that it's not worth explaining concepts to us...yet you don't address anything meaningful.

I believe that my posts WERE helpful to the OP; put the OE coils back on and sell the MSD on ebay. Use that money for parts that will make a real difference in power.

 

Another update (actually, non-update) It's been a week, and MSD still has not called me back, although I've left several messages. Why do I get the feeling that MSD @#!*SUX?*^!

Anyone want some cheap coils?