Why use a t-stat?
Guest
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Why use a t-stat?
In central Texas, it is 100*+ in the summer and a low of ~50* in the winter. I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how to get the temps down in my car and thought, why even have a t-stat? Seeing that I only use the car in top downin weather and my computer is tuned to turn on the fans at 160*, it is really just a bottleneck in the coolant flow. I spoke to the guys at Evans and they agreed and told me that while I am at it, I may as well put a ball valve in the heater circuit (5/8" line off the water pump) as well, since it is also wasting coolant volume. I can always turn the valve on if I want my heater to work in the winter.
Last edited by aTX427; Jul 2, 2008 at 02:59 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Opelika Alabama
well, the heater loop does have a vacume operated valve in it, the t-stat is there to bring the engine up to operating temp. yes your engine needs to be at a certain temp to run properly, the t-stat also slows coolant flow through the rad to allow the coolant to cool, when I raced circle track we would put a t-stat in a higher temp to keep from over heating. the guys who took them out always over heated! GM seems to have this car "set-up" to run at 200 degree's or so when the car is moving. I put a 180 in and I seem to run 198 going down the hwy regardless of the outside temp. [105 recently] you can cause problems by running a engine too "cold"
Safety Car
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From: TEXOMA
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
no engineer here, but ive had instances when removing my thermostat in my rx7 causes my moto to overheat,, some say that the thermostat keeps pressure on the water pump so it doesn't cavitate and the water just goes in circles instead of flow in and out. others say its because it flows threw the radiator too fast and isn't cooled enough before returning to the engine.
but a fail if you really wana run without a stat, just get another one and remove the diaphram/guts of the stat leaving only the housing.
by the way, how hot is your system getting.. the thermostat sets the lower part of the operating tempature. with your fans at 160 and at 100%. if its going over 180 degrees than you have to upgrade your radiator,, also try running a Huge Seperate Oil cooler.
-carl
but a fail if you really wana run without a stat, just get another one and remove the diaphram/guts of the stat leaving only the housing.
by the way, how hot is your system getting.. the thermostat sets the lower part of the operating tempature. with your fans at 160 and at 100%. if its going over 180 degrees than you have to upgrade your radiator,, also try running a Huge Seperate Oil cooler.
-carl
Guest
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I plan on running the Evans coolant which is not prone to cavitation and what they call "nucleate boiling", which occurs when the metal temperature has exceeds the thermal capacity of a water-based coolant. This is also the reason one needs to monitor / add coolant from time to time. They also suggested adding a better radiator, which I am planning to do as well. My temps with the AC on in 103* heat were 250* water and 275* oil temperatures. With the AC off, I am seeing 240 water and 250 oil. In 85* ambient temps, I am seeing 220* water and 240* oil.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Southampton NJ
sometimes no tstat lets water circulate to fast not staying in the rad long enough to cool, also coolant flowing threw heater core is an added cooler when heat or defroster is on, and if the temp doesn't reach 167 in a predetermined amount of time. in a certain number of cycles car can go into limp mode
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Dallas Tx
You don't want to remove the T-stat or bypass the heater core.
With no t-stat, like mentioned before, the coolant is moving too fast to remove heat properly. You wouldn't be able to maintain a constant temp. It would take a long time to warm up properly and then overheat and warp the heads.
I've had several drag cars where we just used a restrictor and a constant speed elect water pump. But I wouldn't want that on a street car. A t-stat is a good thing for a street car.
With no t-stat, like mentioned before, the coolant is moving too fast to remove heat properly. You wouldn't be able to maintain a constant temp. It would take a long time to warm up properly and then overheat and warp the heads.
I've had several drag cars where we just used a restrictor and a constant speed elect water pump. But I wouldn't want that on a street car. A t-stat is a good thing for a street car.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Dallas Tx
I plan on running the Evans coolant which is not prone to cavitation and what they call "nucleate boiling", which occurs when the metal temperature has exceeds the thermal capacity of a water-based coolant. This is also the reason one needs to monitor / add coolant from time to time. They also suggested adding a better radiator, which I am planning to do as well. My temps with the AC on in 103* heat were 250* water and 275* oil temperatures. With the AC off, I am seeing 240 water and 250 oil. In 85* ambient temps, I am seeing 220* water and 240* oil.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: CHOCOWINITY NC
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Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Southampton NJ
i was going to say the same till i read the profile
Race Director
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From: Carlsbad Ca
What's wrong is he modded the engine to create more heat without modding the cooling system to deal with it.
You're right, those temps will shorten his engine life. Maybe he likes walking in the "Central Texas" oven...
Those temps are VERY high and nowhere near what I experience even in 100 degree temps..
Melting Slicks
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From: Eastern PA:ECS Paxton Novi 1500(676rwhp,585tq on stock engine),LG headers, 410's, Corsa Sports, ECS Alky Kit
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
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From: CHOCOWINITY NC
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Southampton NJ
it is for sure, there is definetly a problem, i run very cool at 95 degrees with converter and gears from higher rpm 160s-180s coolant and oil 220 depending on how fast and how long, but his temps are way out of line what do you think, needs an injection kit, somthing blocking the airflow, the engine oil so hot its bringing the coolant temp up
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Bethesda MD
You definitely need a bigger radiator if you still have the stock one. A Z06 oil cooler might help too.
Another option to consider is the LG hood with vents. A downside is might be that when you stop and vent heat out the hood, it may go right in your cabin if the top is down. I don't know, but worth asking about if you consider that an option.
Another option to consider is the LG hood with vents. A downside is might be that when you stop and vent heat out the hood, it may go right in your cabin if the top is down. I don't know, but worth asking about if you consider that an option.
Racer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 463
Likes: 4
From: Park City, UT
Not being a Mechanical Engineer either, my pseudo-educated guess would be that with temps that high perhaps:
1) Your T-stat has failed to open (increasing circulation speed) - Highly unlikely to have this effect.
2) Your particular FI installation did not accomodate for proper air flow - More likely
3) There's something else seriously wrong with your coolant system - Very likely
I can't imagine running at temps that high...
Just curious, what's your boost psi?
I'd say you need an expert to take a look at this ASAP.
Good Luck, and let us know how this pans out.
1) Your T-stat has failed to open (increasing circulation speed) - Highly unlikely to have this effect.
2) Your particular FI installation did not accomodate for proper air flow - More likely
3) There's something else seriously wrong with your coolant system - Very likely
I can't imagine running at temps that high...
Just curious, what's your boost psi?
I'd say you need an expert to take a look at this ASAP.
Good Luck, and let us know how this pans out.
Guest
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Only running 11.5# boost. I have heard of a lot of people with high output engines running these temps, so I don't think there is anything wrong with the build. It is just freaking hot out here in TX and I underestimated the heat. We had 21 days over 100* with high humidity. I ordered a radiator, Evans -R coolant, another 160 stat in case the one I have is bad and -10 AN oil lines to the cooler. I really did not want to get my hands dirty, but it looks like I am going to do the work myself, so I know exactly what is going on. While I have the nose off, I am also going to do Bollas #3 IC mod and fab some shields to direct the air better. If that doesn't work, I am also going to get a LG hood to extract the heat better.
Melting Slicks
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From: merritt island fl
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Since the OP has the mods he has, any comparison to a stock motors cooling is useless. More horsepower just needs more cooling capacity, period. A 160 stat, or no stat at all won't help. Get a bigger radiator.
I'm not sure what the "guys at Evans" were talking about with the "wasting cooling capacity" idea. Anyone KNOW? Also, there is no vacuum operated valve in the heater coolant circuit- it flows fully all the time. In fact, it has to in order for the OEM stat to function properly.
How are you getting the fan to run fully at 160? I didn't think it could be done with only a tune.
I'm not sure what the "guys at Evans" were talking about with the "wasting cooling capacity" idea. Anyone KNOW? Also, there is no vacuum operated valve in the heater coolant circuit- it flows fully all the time. In fact, it has to in order for the OEM stat to function properly.
How are you getting the fan to run fully at 160? I didn't think it could be done with only a tune.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,593
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From: Brighton
Figure on running another 10-15 degrees hotter due to the waterless coolant. It's right in the literature, they don't hide the fact. Evans is for hard core racers that do not care what the coolant engine are.