The official tuning tactics LS3 thread.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Walker MI
The official tuning tactics LS3 thread.
I'm going to be ready to start tuning soon, what AFR/timing curves are people finding makes the POWER on the LS3 with stock heads/cam? What tips and tricks are working.
let's get this started!
let's get this started!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Walker MI
I understand MAF/VE calibration, I guess i'd consider that "elementary", i'm wanting to know what the LS3 likes, I grew up precision tuning turbo cars on pump gas where you're fighting octane/egt/dynamic compression and trying to find a balance of power to no knock, this should be considerably easier... however I don't have a dyno to verify gains and there just doesn't seem to be much of a homebrew community tuning vettes
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Alpharetta Georgia
I wanna say most bolt on LS3's run ~24deg of timing tops for bolt ons. I have heard they also like richer AFR's than the LS2's. I run 26degs of timing and AFR's measured at the X-pipe at of 12.6~12.7ish. It is a safe tune and it still makes good power. It allows me to rip on the car with no ill effects. I have even compression tested every cylinder and checked all of the plugs multiple times and they have come back flawless.
Oh yea, you will get way more responses and more detail answers here www.hptuners.com/forum
Oh yea, you will get way more responses and more detail answers here www.hptuners.com/forum
Last edited by 1.8t; Aug 6, 2008 at 10:00 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
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With simple boltons, you shouldn't have to mess with the MAF. Currently there is no good way to tune the VE tables either. Someone has an excel sheet that almost has it figured out for HP tuners, but almost isn't good enough... - Be carful with your cam selection until they have it figured out. It may make great power, but driveability will most likely suffer. You can always disable the VE tables and tune the Maf ( I don't like that option because drivability suffers some)
My car likes it at 12.4 -12.5 on the dyno. With the Vararam , that same 12.4-12.5 is 12.7-12.8 on the street..... 885-890 o2 readings..... I then have the timing maxed out as far as I can go without getting KR...
My car likes it at 12.4 -12.5 on the dyno. With the Vararam , that same 12.4-12.5 is 12.7-12.8 on the street..... 885-890 o2 readings..... I then have the timing maxed out as far as I can go without getting KR...
Last edited by xstang; Aug 7, 2008 at 09:22 AM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
From: Walker MI
With simple boltons, you shouldn't have to mess with the MAF. Currently there is no good way to tune the VE tables either. Someone has an excel sheet that almost has it figured out fr HP tuners, but almost isn't good enough... - Be carfeul with your cam selection until they have it figured out. It may make great power, but driveability will most likely suffer. You can always disable the VE tables and tune the Maf ( I don't like that option because drivability suffers some)
My car likes it at 12.4 -12.5 on the dyno. With the Vararam , that same 12.4-12.5 is 12.7-12.8 n the street..... 885-890 o2 readings..... I then have the timing maxed out as far as I can go without getting KR...
My car likes it at 12.4 -12.5 on the dyno. With the Vararam , that same 12.4-12.5 is 12.7-12.8 n the street..... 885-890 o2 readings..... I then have the timing maxed out as far as I can go without getting KR...
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,682
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Every car is different, so I don't think that would be the best thing... Just add a few degrees of timing at a time and when you see KR back it out... Usually I back out half of the KR displayed... Start with +2 degrees down low\midrange dynamic cylinder fill and + 1 degree in the higher cylinder fill...
Le Mans Master<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/5k-6k.gif" border="0">
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
With simple boltons, you shouldn't have to mess with the MAF. Currently there is no good way to tune the VE tables either. Someone has an excel sheet that almost has it figured out for HP tuners, but almost isn't good enough... - Be carful with your cam selection until they have it figured out. It may make great power, but driveability will most likely suffer. You can always disable the VE tables and tune the Maf ( I don't like that option because drivability suffers some)
My car likes it at 12.4 -12.5 on the dyno. With the Vararam , that same 12.4-12.5 is 12.7-12.8 on the street..... 885-890 o2 readings..... I then have the timing maxed out as far as I can go without getting KR...
My car likes it at 12.4 -12.5 on the dyno. With the Vararam , that same 12.4-12.5 is 12.7-12.8 on the street..... 885-890 o2 readings..... I then have the timing maxed out as far as I can go without getting KR...
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Walker MI
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
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People who dynotune the Vararam and don't do a street tune better check for KR....
Last edited by xstang; Aug 8, 2008 at 03:41 AM.
Banned Scam/Spammer
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From: Bonita Springs FL
This thread is a great idea. I'm in the process of using my HP Tuners also. I'm trying to post a screenshot of my MAF, PE, and timing talbles but I can't seem to get them on here. My MAF(Airflow vs hz) is slightly changed from stock and my PE is set at 1.234 across the board. I have an 08 LS3 with ARHs and a Vararam.
Le Mans Master<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/5k-6k.gif" border="0">
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
If the Vararam is forcing air into the intake, you will see a higher cylinder fill.... On the dyno you are not getting the ram air. - More air with the same fuel curve.... Anytime you add air, it leans out the mixture...
People who dynotune the Vararam and don't do a street tune better check for KR....
People who dynotune the Vararam and don't do a street tune better check for KR....
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
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A car wll get leaner with just adding a CAI with no other changes. This is bringing in more air before the MAf... If you spray a dry shot before the maf.... It also leans out the mixture.. The Maf will add fuel, but it doesn't always add enough because it doesn't recognize the air properly. In my case, the Maf will always read differently sitting on the Dyno with static air vs moving with ram air... The fuel trims will be different... If you recalibrated the Maf for both scenarios, you are right.. The A\F should be the same. However, If you calibrated the MAf for air just sitting on the dyno, then you run in 40 degree weather and have a ram air effect, the car will be leaner and your fuel trims will be different...
Last edited by xstang; Aug 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM.
Le Mans Master<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/5k-6k.gif" border="0">
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
A car wll get leaner with just adding a CAI with no other changes. This is bringing in more air before the MAf... If you spray a dry shot before the maf.... It also leans out the mixture.. The Maf will add fuel, but it doesn't always add enough.....
So are you saying spraying a dry shot before the MAF will not lean out the mixture? This just hasn't been my experience...
So are you saying spraying a dry shot before the MAF will not lean out the mixture? This just hasn't been my experience...
Drifting
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I'll agree to disagree ...
Last edited by xstang; Aug 8, 2008 at 10:54 AM.
Le Mans Master<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/5k-6k.gif" border="0">
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09
You are right if the MAF would be calibrated for static air on the dyno and then recalibrated for moving ram air on the street, then the A|F would be the same... If you dial in the car for one, chances are it won't be dialed in for the other. With that said, that is why the car uses fuel trims to account for the amount of air. The fuel trims will be different in both cases which will cause the A|F to be different. This is the reason why people go to certain tuners and have the car dialed in on a dyno and then you log the car and it has a ton of KR on the street..
I'll agree to disagree ...
I'll agree to disagree ...
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Austin Texas
The best way of tuning the fueling and MAF table is installing a wideband controller into the exhaust. Otherwise, you are guessing the AFR. The O2 voltages are VERY inaccurate at anything other 14.7 AFR. I just tuned 2 cars using the PLX Devices AFR controller and really simple to install. After that, you have a very accurate AFR reading and forget the dyno AFR. That can be as much as 0.5 AFR off due to the cats converting the chemistry of the exhaust gasses. Another thing to consider, when tuning the fueling, disable the COT (Catalytic Overtemp) and DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cutoff) since they will alter the AFR readings under certain conditions.
Last edited by Brian@RPT; Aug 8, 2008 at 02:23 PM.
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From: Bonita Springs FL
I ran a log today of the current that I am using for my 08 LS3. The tune runs fantastic but I am seeing narrow band readings at high rpm in the 920-930 range. Is this lean or dangerous? I've read that you should be around 900 at or near WOT.