Interesting Gasoline Information
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 37
From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
Interesting Gasoline Information
After getting some drivability issues after filling up on the way home from Carisle, I have been doing some reading and thought I'd pass the site along....why it's soooooo important to get your gas from not only a named brand station, but one that does a lot of business and gets frequent deliveries.
Fuel Testers
"Recently, ethanol replaced MTBE for the oxygenation of conventional fuel.
MTBE is now banned in the USA, due to studies that revealed it causes groundwater contamination and cancer.
(Ethanol also is used as a fuel for E85 blends, which has an 85% ethanol content.
The problem with replacing MTBE with etahnol, is that unlike MTBE ethanol readily attracts and absorbs water & moisture into the fuel.
Ethanol also has dramatically changed the shelf life of fuel - Fuel that did not contain ethanol had a shelf life of several years; Unlike ethanol-blend fuels which remain stable for a maximum of 90-100 days.
Test results on ethanol blend fuel shelf life were performed under ideal conditions (70 % humidity, properly sealed fuel system, lack of presence of rain/snow, etc.) - Therefore it is safe to assume that the shelf life and stability of fuels containing ethanol is much shorter than 90-100 days."
Fuel Testers
"Recently, ethanol replaced MTBE for the oxygenation of conventional fuel.
MTBE is now banned in the USA, due to studies that revealed it causes groundwater contamination and cancer.
(Ethanol also is used as a fuel for E85 blends, which has an 85% ethanol content.
The problem with replacing MTBE with etahnol, is that unlike MTBE ethanol readily attracts and absorbs water & moisture into the fuel.
Ethanol also has dramatically changed the shelf life of fuel - Fuel that did not contain ethanol had a shelf life of several years; Unlike ethanol-blend fuels which remain stable for a maximum of 90-100 days.
Test results on ethanol blend fuel shelf life were performed under ideal conditions (70 % humidity, properly sealed fuel system, lack of presence of rain/snow, etc.) - Therefore it is safe to assume that the shelf life and stability of fuels containing ethanol is much shorter than 90-100 days."
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,136
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From: Long Island New York
Dont know what kind of issues you were having but I remember back in the late 80's I had a Mustang that had the timing advanced. The car had no knock sensors and was easy to tell if I paid for premium and got reg. Under hard acceleration it would knock something awful. Most of the bad gas I got was at places along major highways. Seemed to me like the had alot of transient traffic and not regular customers making it easier to get away with. Besides most people have no idea they were getting scammed. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 37
From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
Exactly where I got gas....where I also think 93 octane gas is not turned over as fast as 87.
The two biggest problems I'm thinking about are:
1) Many guys here on the forum sometimes don't use their cars for a few weeks at a time, sometimes longer.
2) Ive seen more than a few cars tuned by various tuners that had the high octane table copied to the low octane table to try and eek out some extra performance by not allowing the computer to fall back if some knock retard was happening....and hope that either the car runs a perfect 93 or better octane, or the knock sensors will do their job. Well, if you get some of this water laden or diminished octane gas and decided to beat on her a little...look out.
So I'm wondering, what's safest? Keep some octane boost around? Keep the tank level lower and get gas more often?
Hey Pipedreams, time to make an alcohol content tester that can be permanently mounted in the car that can check the gas before you start the car....
The two biggest problems I'm thinking about are:
1) Many guys here on the forum sometimes don't use their cars for a few weeks at a time, sometimes longer.
2) Ive seen more than a few cars tuned by various tuners that had the high octane table copied to the low octane table to try and eek out some extra performance by not allowing the computer to fall back if some knock retard was happening....and hope that either the car runs a perfect 93 or better octane, or the knock sensors will do their job. Well, if you get some of this water laden or diminished octane gas and decided to beat on her a little...look out.
So I'm wondering, what's safest? Keep some octane boost around? Keep the tank level lower and get gas more often?
Hey Pipedreams, time to make an alcohol content tester that can be permanently mounted in the car that can check the gas before you start the car....
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 101
From: TN PA
CI 5-6-7-8-9-10-11 Vet
I have been going out of my way to avoid ethanol gas. Mainly because of the reduced mpg's on my daily driver. It looses about 20%. It is getting harded around here to find ethonal free fuel.
I bought an ethonal tester a few weeks ago and test every time I fill up. So far I have only gotten ethonal on one tank full (Costco) and that tested at 7%. Some gas I have bought from pumps marked to contain ethonal have been ethonal free.....
So far I have not used any ethonal gas in the 08 Vette....but I think those days are about over....
Link to tester... http://www.fuel-testers.com/product_gas_alcohol.html
I bought an ethonal tester a few weeks ago and test every time I fill up. So far I have only gotten ethonal on one tank full (Costco) and that tested at 7%. Some gas I have bought from pumps marked to contain ethonal have been ethonal free.....
So far I have not used any ethonal gas in the 08 Vette....but I think those days are about over....
Link to tester... http://www.fuel-testers.com/product_gas_alcohol.html
Last edited by pettvette; Sep 1, 2008 at 01:12 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,347
Likes: 25
From: Apache Junction AZ
I find it interesting that 10% ethanol leads to as much as a 20% reduction in fuel mileage. Seems to me that would lead to more imported oil, not less.
I also find it interesting that there is a concern about moisture in the ethanol when many on the forum use a mixture of water and alcohol/methanol as a way to keep the engine cleaner and control detonation.
BJK
I also find it interesting that there is a concern about moisture in the ethanol when many on the forum use a mixture of water and alcohol/methanol as a way to keep the engine cleaner and control detonation.
BJK
Last edited by 07MontRedcp; Sep 1, 2008 at 04:01 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Short Hills, NJ
I've been preaching the use of name brand (Sunoco, Mobil (now Lukoil), Shell, BP Amoco etc.) fuel from stations in populated/high traffic areas to my fellow LSx drivers for years now.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2007
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St. Jude Donor '08 thru '13
The owner's manual recommends Top Tier gasoline, and I don't take any chances with my C6, either.
Name brand, busy stations. All the time.
When on road trips (my 2006 has 50K miles), I know the station two miles off the interstate is cheaper, but I don't go there for a reason. The extra couple of bucks isn't going to kill me, or my fuel filter. Not only can you get drivability issues, a clogged fuel filter from bad gas can bring other problems.
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Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,939
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From: CHOCOWINITY NC
I have no argument with putting good gas in the car, but if you think that "Top Tier" label has any real meaning you're
All it means is that Membership dues are paid to a Marketing organization that was formed some years ago by Quick Trip. The current website is sufficiently Vague to be almost meaningless. Any gas marketer who meets minimum quality standards only needs to fork over the cash to get on that list....From a few years ago:
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,597
Likes: 101
From: TN PA
CI 5-6-7-8-9-10-11 Vet
I do math caculations on all fill ups and usually drive about 20 miles or so after the low fuel light comes on to lessen the amount of blended fuel in the tank. I have been tracking fuel milage on this car for the last 20,000 miles.
I see the biggest drop in mpg's in around town driving with the ethonal blend...Normal gas returns between 22 and 24 mpg. Ethonal blend = 17-18 mpg's...about a 20% loss......On highway only driving the loss is 10-12%.....
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
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St. Jude Donor '11, '16
I love when some of the principles and ideas that I had already been practicing based solely on my own sense of logic/thinking turn out to actually be potentially factual.
I've been preaching the use of name brand (Sunoco, Mobil (now Lukoil), Shell, BP Amoco etc.) fuel from stations in populated/high traffic areas to my fellow LSx drivers for years now.
I've been preaching the use of name brand (Sunoco, Mobil (now Lukoil), Shell, BP Amoco etc.) fuel from stations in populated/high traffic areas to my fellow LSx drivers for years now.
I tend to avoid the higher price, mostly name brand, stations as the inventory sits longer than the discount stations......Top Tier is a complete joke....It is nothing more than a marketing ploy to increase margins for companies premium products......
But you know what they say about opinions....including mine...
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,246
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 133,592
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St. Jude Donor '11, '16
It all comes down to the tanks in the ground. Larger chains, as well as name brand, for the mst part, hedge their liability by having new tanks and test them....Ones that do not leak or rust.
Gas is a touchy issue, like the first and subsequent oil changes.....
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,984
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From: CT
Some incorrect info here. 10% ethanol/ 90% gas does not attract water. Methanol at that level will. 100% ethanol can not be shipped by pipeline as that much will attract water in the pipelines, not your car.
Ethanol has been mandatory in the NE for a few years now - you have to use it!. Going bad in 90 days is pure bunk. Some of my cars sit for 6 months and I have had zero problems. There is a slight decrease in mileage but not as much as stated in the OP. My '00 C-5 gets 30 mpg or better on long highway trips traveling between 70-75 mph
Ethanol has been mandatory in the NE for a few years now - you have to use it!. Going bad in 90 days is pure bunk. Some of my cars sit for 6 months and I have had zero problems. There is a slight decrease in mileage but not as much as stated in the OP. My '00 C-5 gets 30 mpg or better on long highway trips traveling between 70-75 mph
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,984
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From: CT
Gas is gas, for the most part, it all comes from the same pipline....with the exception of limited refinery delivery areas in some areas of the country....
I tend to avoid the higher price, mostly name brand, stations as the inventory sits longer than the discount stations......Top Tier is a complete joke....It is nothing more than a marketing ploy to increase margins for companies premium products......
But you know what they say about opinions....including mine...
I tend to avoid the higher price, mostly name brand, stations as the inventory sits longer than the discount stations......Top Tier is a complete joke....It is nothing more than a marketing ploy to increase margins for companies premium products......
But you know what they say about opinions....including mine...
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 133,592
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St. Jude Donor '11, '16
True that in most areas it does come from the same pipeline. The difference is in the distribution depots where additional additives are blended with the "pipeline" gas. Most all the time, the majors will add more and better additives than what is sold to the discount guys. It is not just a marketing ploy.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,984
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From: CT
The additives are detergents and all states require them. You will have differences like Techron etc, that the truck driver will add, but it still is mostly marketing.....You never see a Quickie Mart gas commercial touting their brand like a BP or Texaco, thus the savings....
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
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St. Jude Donor '11, '16
It is the level of additives and detergents that the major add. The others get by with the bare minimum. Some majors have propritory additives. Point is the discounters will use the bare minimum to save money to shave a few pennies from the selling point at the pump, the majors have more of a reputation to uphold. For the few pennies you might save with a discounter, it's not worth it if the car runs worse, or the injectors mess up. Majors are also mpore "under the gun" from EPA and others. You will see them replacing underground tanks far more frequently than the discounters.
And as for tanks, they are all regulated by the states, and the states do not care who owns them, they get fixed and replaced as required to the state specifications....or they put you out of business, the current UST program is no joke like it was years ago.....
I am not sure if I agree that more detrgents are necessiraly better than the correct amount, which is the minimum required. I do agree that there are different detergent manufactures, but how do you tell what you are getting? This is kinda the secret of the industry, all the behind the scenes stuff they never tell us.....
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
St. Jude Donor '13
On our trip to Carlisle, one of the cars suddenly said on the CB that he needed gas RIGHT NOW. So we pulled into the next station, the name was Turkey Snot or something like that. 
They seem to be a common chain in that area but I couldn't find them on the top tier list.
They seem to be a common chain in that area but I couldn't find them on the top tier list.