This is most likely you problem. Very common issue.

 

Sounds like the Vette Air works then! A more appropriate solution is to properly tune your car. Tape, lol.

 

Maybe...maybe not. I'm not sure I agree with your "works" statement. If you mean changes the environment to a degree that requires the engine calibration to be modified to realize the gains and restore lost driveability then I guess it "works". What I can say for sure though is that the Vette Air with Killer Bee combo degraded the driveability of my relatively stock new car though. Removing the Vette Air while leaving the Killer Bee/BeeHive combo in restored the lost driveability.

 

Works by providing more airflow is what I mean. How much HP this translates to, I cannot say. I'm not sure why, in today's day and age of computer controlled everything, people think they can alter parameters outside an expected range and expect to not have to adjust any settings. The more stuff you do, the more you need to adjust. Simple. You only brought airflow back into a readable range by covering the vette air. It is safe to assume you also reduced HP. Enough to matter or notice? I can't say. If you think the Vette Air increases turbulence outside the air filter and affects MAF readings then, well.......................... It doesn't. It's volume.

 

I installed the Vette air in my 08 MN6 with the stock LS3 Air Intake Set Up. I did not disconnect the battery.

I have slight surging that seems to be lessening as I continue to drive over time. At some point I may disconnect the battery to see if that makes a difference.

Ed

 

Read this: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...s-out-yet.html Post #11. The bucking is probably happening at light throttle applications because the MAF is sensitive and it is seeing the air flow change. I know Jim did a lot of testing on a flow bench before releasing his Killerbee IAS..
I ended up installing a homemade baffle on top of the vette-air to stop the bucking/surging, which was actually worse with the stock filter setup.

 

On the other hand, My Vette-air + Killer Bee + custom airbox (precurser to the Beehive) never surged or caused any issues..

 

Yours is an 08 and you are also tuned based on what I see in your public profile right? I don't doubt that it can be fixed with a proper tune, I was just surprised that either the stock configuration was too constrained to compensate or that possibly the Vette Air was causing too much turbulence.

I've read that there are some 33-34 changes in the 09 ECU and the throttle body is different for 09...maybe enough to make a difference? I don't know what wasn't a happy camper when I installed the combo but I do know that removing the Vette Air solved the surging.

By the way the guy who suggested I eliminate the Vette Air contribution to solve the surging was a guy by the name of Jim Hall.

 

I dont want to steal the thread but I have a question. I would like to know is it the air pressure change, turbulence or the change in the air temp that causes the surging? And if it is turbulence is it a vortex like or more random? NWC6 said by making a baffle It cured the problem so I would assume its a pressure thing or lack of.
Mike

 

I'm not sure, Jim Hall said it was turbulence, the guy that tuned my car said it could be air temp, especially with the top of the "air box" open. Hot air from the engine bay then a shot of cold air from the vette-air would cause the timing to jump around. That is one reason I installed a Beehive, to isolate the air box from engine bay heat.
I wish I had logging software to track it down..It would kind of interesting.I know this for certain. I first noticed the problem this spring, post K&N and vette-air install. I put my stock filter system back on for a trip to Cali, and noticed the issue was slightly worse. (wife even noticed it, where she didn't before) I came home that weekend and re-read the threads Jim Hall posted and about the guy that the dealer sealed up his airbox for the surging. (he was totally stock). I simply put duct tape over the opening for the vette-air and no more surging with the stock unit. I reinstalled the K&N, no surging. Took the tape off, and surging came back. I fabricated a baffle to fit over the inside opening of the vette-air to divert the incoming air to the sides of the air box, installed Jim Halls Beehive, and have no surging issues. It was a pain, but worth it. I am camming the car this winter, so I wanted the cold air/more flow to support that. If I was staying stock, not sure I would have taken the stock filter assy off..I would have put my mod money into appearance mods..

 

It would be very useful to know. Given that the stock LS3 air filter flows enough to feed FI applications (ZL1), I don't think its volume. Hard to imagine how bringing more air into an unsealed engine compartment with stock filter (in my case) would significantly alter under hood air pressure and looking at the design of stock air filter (surface area/pleats) can't imagine the air flow doesn't get smoothed out traveling through the filter. I'm considering changing the IAT sensor/location thinking that the problem is temp related. Tuners, any experience/data that would be useful? what parameters are modified in a tune to correct for adding CAIs?? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

I have an manual 08 with the Halltech " Killer Bee Intake" and "Beehive Shroud" with no issues. I cut two side holes in the bottom of the shroud, as described in Jim Halls website for cold air. I have no surge problems. I wonder if the "Vette Air" causes turbulence due to the fact the air flow hits the bottom of the closed air filter, where as, cutting the lower, shroud holes allows air to flow directly into the sides of the filter?

 

I think that is why my problem was worse with the stock filter. The vette-air was directing airflow right at the filter where with the K&N it was directed at the closed end of the filter.

 

Thanks everyone for your responses. I understand now that I cannot run the K&N or any aftermarket CAI unless I get a tune. And that, I will not do. I will not jeopardize my factory warranty. Why doesn’t K&N state this before the purchase?

I am going to call K&N tomorrow and explain my dilemma.. I refuse to drive a brand new car that surges. And now I also understand why my gas mileage went down the drain. The computer was going nuts trying to compensate, thus using more fuel.

On a better note, today I took my car out with the factory air intake for a nice long drive. What a pleasure it was not to have that surging, and to see my gas mileage back to normal again.

 

I have a K&N and lots of other mods; tuned… I just ordered a Vette-Air but have not installed it yet… Are you guys saying that the Vette-Air is not going to be beneficial for my car…?

 

The vette-air will supply cold air to the air filter area..Some people have experienced surging with the modification.

 

Interesting observation regarding a decline in gas MPG when a surging condition exists. I have a Vette Air / Stock LS3 Intake with slight surging as described by others. I have not driven at a consistent enough speed to make a qulaity declaration on MPG.

Anyone else observe a drop in MPG ?

 

EDIT: oops, just realized the OP was for a Z06 and different K&N P/N. But I'll ask the question anyhow.

Anyone else have issues with the K&N on an LS3 with no tune or other mods (i.e. vette air, etc)? Just curious.....

The K&N P/N I'm referring to is the: 63-3073


TIA

 

If you run an oiled air filter it has a direct impact on the MAF sensor. The oil insulates the MAF sensor element causing an inaccurate reading which will effect your drive ability.

 

That is not true. K&N has disproven this statement over and over again. It is what techs are taught in class, but is simply not the case at all.

Lean codes are caused primarily by unreported air post the MAF meter, which is indicative of an air leak post MAF.

It can also be the result of turbulence at the MAF caused by an open radiator deflector shield loose rivets as in the picture:



Most of the bottom breathers have surging issues from the same air disturbance issues, and throw lean codes periodically from buffeting air.

The OP has since 2008 swapped his intake out for the Halltech MF103 which is smoother than stock and has an oiled cotton gauze media that is SAE 5011 tested for maximum efficiency.

K&N has done thorough testing many suspected MAF meter failures and their results will shed light on the subject.

http://www.knfilters.com/maf/1MAFSensorVideo.htm

Jim Hall