I didnt say you were a whiner. I stated Dennis wasnt.

 

You know, you are missing a big point here. Putting 3.42's or whatever
in my or Tony's car is a good $2500+ plus mod for a measly .10 to .20.
Taking your car seat out at the track or whatever can can get .10 for free. Or working on my existing tune with HP Tuner and picking the same up. Even a "Have Negative DA, Will Travel" track can pick you up .20-.40 for a quick jump on the 1/4 Mile Fast List often for less than $500.00.

 

Got it. Sorry about that. So in your opinion how much faster would my car be if i added gears? I would like to squeze every 10th out of my car and am kind of new to corvettes

 

I'm not missing any point. The issue is could you be even faster with 3.42s and the answer is yes. What it is worth to you, that's your call. Do what you want, it's your car. I'm not judging you (or anyone else) for not dropping the coin or not wanting to give up their low highway rpms.

BTW, If Tony can make it to Cartek, he can make it to ECS. $1700 for gears including the shafts.

 

Yes, your car will be faster. On my camaro (v6) I went from a 15.2 to a 14.8 in the quarter just from going from 3.23 to 4.10 gears.

 

i'd be careful comparing results to "older" cars. The new technology in the A6 surprises us all. I dont think the same rules apply as they did in the older 3 and 4 speed transmissions. I am going to say that 3.42's in an A6 will result in .10 at best. I am not willing to spend the 2k to find out though.

 

The point here is well made. I dont know anyone who did it with the A6 because they read posts by guys who didnt do it telling them what they wont get.

Fact: A4 guys with the C5 saw a full second in the 1/4 going from 2.73's to 3.73's and a 3200 stall. It isnt asn either or mod. Gears cut the 60' and aid in hooking by slowing the rotation of the tire down unlike the converter that jacks you into the power band faster. Gears also control the peak power band at the traps by gearing for the red line.

I will say the A6 wont get the results of a 4 speed but I think 3 tenths is a fair assessment. One from the 60' and 2 tenths from winding a gear out faster.

 

When was the last time you went to the track? I have 2 friends withe close to the same setup as me but they have 3.42's. They are not much quicker. So I am staying with my theory that 3.42's help but not that much.

 

OK thats funny.

+1 for the lock of this thread. Its been full circle.

 

i guess you missed my post earlier in this thread where i said that i pick up .1 just in my 60' from the 3.42 and still needing a retune. i did this with my crappy runflats that have 26000 on them and really shouldn't be driven on the road they are so worn out. im not sayin that im going to get a huge gain after the tune but i think i should see about .3 or so but its a great addition for when i get me a high stall converter one day.

dicky

 

To quote Siffert from an earlier post in this thread “Where do you come up with some of this stuff?”

I’m the one who gave Mike the .10 difference that he quoted earlier but no, I’m not on crack. I do however have solid supporting evidence to back up that number:

Car #1)

My buddy Ron’s car ran a best of 10.863 with the following mods:

• Lingenfelter heads and cam package
• Lingenfelter air intake
• LG headers
• Underdrive pulley
• Ported stock intake manifold
• 275/40/17 Mickey Thompson drag radials with 23.5 psi
• Yank SS3600 stall converter
• Shift points optimized for the engine
• 3.42 gears
• 93 octane
• Dynoed at approx 427rwhp
• Approximately 1300 RPM launch
• 1.569 60ft

Car #2)

My car (while it still had the LS2) ran a best of 10.908 with the following mods:

• Comp Cams camshaft (can’t remember the exact specs)
• Vararam
• American Racing headers
• Ported stock intake manifold
• 275/40/17 Mickey Thompson drag radials with 23.5 psi
• Yank SS3600 stall converter
• Shift points optimized for the engine
• 3.42 gears
• 93 octane
• Dynoed at approx 410 rwhp
• Approximately 1300 RPM launch
• 1.565 60ft

Car #3)

Mike’s car with the following mods ran an 11.321 this past Saturday which would have been in the vicinity of 11.0xx seconds if you account for the large difference in DA (around 1480 vs -500 for both my car and Ron’s):

• LG’s Executive series cam Vararam
• LG headers
• Ported stock intake manifold
• 275/40/17 Mickey Thompson drag radials with 23.5 psi
• Yank SS3600 stall converter
• Shift points optimized for the engine
• 2.56 gears
• 93 octane
• Dynoed at approx 390 rwhp
• Approximately 1300 RPM launch
• 1.594 60ft

Not only did I drive all three cars as well as tune each one, all of these times were from the same track (Sacramento Raceway) and on the same day of the week (the Saturday Test&Tune when they prep the track very well).

While I know very well that back to back runs made minutes apart can yield different results but I don’t know how much better of an apples-to-apples-to-apples comparison you can ask for with the examples I’ve shown here.

The results I concluded were as follows:

• Ron’s car as expected was slightly quicker than my car most likely due to the slight horsepower advantage
• My car was a little more than a tenth quicker than Mike’s car because of the gearing and horsepower advantage
• With virtually everything else being really close to equal across all three cars, it’s safe to conclude that the .10 difference between my car and Mike’s can be accounted for by the gears.

So, based on the logic that you’re putting forth do you honestly believe that by simply adding 3.42’s to Mike’s car he’d be running considerably faster than Ron’s car and possibly even my LS7? Sorry, but there is no way that is going to happen Spin.

 

Spin, I have been on the forum a couple years now and have followed most of the gear post as you have, I appreciate your input as well as your patience for new members.

 

Dennis has gears but he has an A4 not an A6.

Also Spin, Dennis stays in 3rd gear.

Ask me how I know...

 

Neither am I. Thats why i went with a larger stall instead of the gears(from a 3200 to a 3600).

 

I do appologize and point out that the crack statement was removed. I realized it too late to remove it before it was seen.

I dont dismiss your experience, its just that I also credit guys like:

 

Not the point, the gears are maxxed out. Dennis has said on more than one occasion that he would run 3.90's if he had the trap speed up top.

Most of my conversations on the phone with Dennis are 1 1/2 hours long and I also drove his car myself and am well aware of its gears and its performance. I knew the car was an A4. To make the point again.....the gears are maxxed out.

C6 DVL's car has maxxed out gears too. 4.10's wont allow a 132 trap speed with his tire. 3.90's are the correct gear for his car.

Anyone crossing the traps at 4000rpms and can fit the next larger gear to have the car in the full power band top end, is losing something up top. If you run 4 gears at the track then you are best served having all 4 gears at the HP peak when you use that gear. Unless of course they're saying that a car can wind the top gear as fast using the bottom 1/2 of its power band only.

 

Car 3 will run faster and the results of the first 2 cars dont limit the 3rd cars possible gains. Too bad for the 1st two cars if it does run faster.

Two cars with the exact same mods and power and gears will run totally different times if you just set the ride height of the cars up differently. Dead shocks in the back make you quicker. How much gas was in the tank? These things can get you 3 tenths.

Recomendation: Stop quoting peak power on these cars as the power to compare. I would bet the average HP of the three dont compare if you go by rpm range. I have gotten sick amounts of power from midbands while seeing peak power not increase so much. My ported FAST manifold would only see a 8-10hp jump over the stock ported intake but would see 20-25rwtq more in the midband. Tq at 3500-4000 is why the 60's arent as low as some of the automatic counterparts. Thats isnt what you see at the TQ peak at 4800rpm. I swapped headers and saw a 34rwtq gain at 3400rpm while seeing no gain in peak HP. The performance of the car is vastly different if you see that on the lauch even with your stall. Dennis' midband dyno sheet is the match of ANY H/C car LS2.

The place peak HP is used the most is the top of the last gear. Someone isnt even hitting that rpm in the last gear.

 

Spin,

I know you have talked and do talk with Dennis. Dennis and I have been talking over 2 years know on a weekly basis.

As far as the A4 and A6, the stock A6 with 2.56 vs the A4 with 3.73 gears are very close. 1st gear in an A4 is just a touch stronger than a A6 with 2.56 gears. If anything, the A6`s with 2.73 gears are all most equals if not stronger than an A4 with 3.73 gears. Dennis and I have had plenty of discussions about this. Also if Dennis is staying in 3rd gear and guys with A6`s are staying in 3rd gear what does that tell you. There is plenty of proof out there about what gears do for the A6. Its worth a .10 and thats about it at the track. Again when Subfloor and I were competing all last year for the cam only LS2 spot we were trading spots by .10. He would beat me with 3.42`s and then I would beat him with 2.56`s.

I will be testing ou these 2.56 gears next week with a larger stall and I will post how they did for me.

 

I like the part where car #3 is faster!

 

Actually, it tells you nothing.
* the 3-4 is the weakest part of 4L60. If you WOT shift 3-4 on a regular basis, you must have a built tranny.
* 4th gear on an A4 is an overdrive whereas it is an underdrive on the A6. It's not comparable.
* to max out the traps using 4th gear on the A4 would make the car unpleasant on the highway. If the car is geared for 130 mph trap at 6500 rpm, it would be above 3000 rpm at legal highway speeds. Sure they did that back in 60s and 70s, but most people like being closer to 2k rpms at 65 mph.

If we look at what cars do, many of the fastest cars run a Powerglide, but nobody is suggesting that you put 1.86 gears in the A6 and make it through in 2nd gear.

Clearly on a converter car, there are diminishing returns from the extra gear, just as there will deminishing returns on raising the stall speed.

Tony, you know I'm a big fan of converters, but gears will put you in the 10s. Hopefully you'll get there on your converter swap.