Ok heres the story. Ive been looking around at different cams. You name it Ive looked into it. England green, LG cams etc. etc. etc. Ive think Ive narrowed it down to a few but Im not sure which one will fit my application best. I have trick flow heads already so anything I get will make some pretty good power. Im looking at the larger cams Gx6 from Lg on the whiplash or mayhem from england green. Basically 230's to 240's duration on a 114 lobe sep. Now my question is what kind of lift would be safe with a slightly milled head. Right now my compression is 11.2 to 1 (cant remeber what the cc is on the chamber). I know I could mill the head more and get more compression and more power but how much could I go with out having to fly cut with say the Lg Gx6 cam? I believe the lift on that one is just over .600.

Basically Im looking for some advice on a cam. I want to make a ton of rwhp (around 500) and maintain decent drivability. I have a 3200 stall and gears already so that will help smooth it out a little hopefully.

So lets have a cam discussion. I wanna hear some opinions from almost anybody.

Spin I know your out there. Guys from Lg and england green you too if your around.

 

If your goals are set in stone, you've read enough to know what you're getting into. Personally, I'd go a little milder on the cam specs and enjoy my car a little more. Mid to upper 220's on the intake and low 230's on the exhaust would do it for me. Super tuners can tune bigger cams and have no donwnside. The bigger cams give you a little more on the top end where you rarely go. You know where most of your time is spent RPM wise. Gets down to what you're looking for.

 

I already have a 228/230 cam and Im not really happy with it. It makes ok power but I want more. The midrange on it is not great. Maybe its the tune I dont know. From what Ive been looking at the midrange is a lot better on the bigger cams.

 

I will wait for others to comment but first a thing about cam specs.

Rule 1: Lift has nearly nothing to do with if a cam fits without flycutting. The reason why is that a piston is actually at the bottom of the cylinder when a lifter is on the peak lift part of the cam lobe.

Rule 2: Overlap is what makes cam aggressive or not. A 114LSA as you say you want is only part of the formula and you dont pick an LSA because you think it will be easy to tune or have less driveability issues. A 224/224 on a 112 will have far better driveability than a 236/242 on a 114LSA. LSA is picked for you due to the resulting powerband of the durations.

Try to stay away from these assumptions or myths and go with a proven cam. You arent going to come up with something better than the pro's did simply by reading a bit. The top tuners came up with results by installing 50 different cams....they did R&D.

Compression: The bigger the cam is, the further up the piston will be when the intake valve closes so your dynamic compression drops as intake duration rises. This forces you to raise static compression to compensate. You will need to max the thinnest gaskets before more milling. TF heads are 13.5 degree and fit more cam before fly-cutting. As far as someone telling you something will fit without cutting: good luck. No one will take that kind of liability so YOU MUST MEASURE IT.

Last up, you have an automatic trans and want 500rwhp. Good luck again. You should be asking what cam people used with your heads. To hit near 500rwhp the intake duration should be 234 or bigger. Since overlap is the devil think about using a single pattern cam like a 236/236. If you dont, even with a 236 cam you will need a high idle speed. a 236/236 cam with a 114LSA isnt going to idle nice under 850 to 900rpm.

My vote is a 236/236 XFI 115LSA if you have an amazing tuner. Its a +6 on overlap which is healthy big on an auto. It will not be without an artifact at 1600rpm and will need some high rpm for idle. I would delay upshifts to keep cruise on the hiway at 2k or so. To take advantage of the higher powerband, you better have a FAST intake with its higher RPM hp peak.

 

I started the other way. Too big too soon. Sounds as if you know what you're getting it to. One of the cams I had was the Torquer 2 from TX Speed. 232/234 112lsa with about .600 lift. It peaked under 6250 rpm. Pulled hard from the git go, but never tamed (two tuners) to my satisfaction Good luck!

 

My thoughts are in contrast to Old Motorheads. In my opinion, I'd rather have my power up top, which is where I often go- Especially when I'm in search of some thrust.

I don't agree with the concept of the mid-range cam. Most proponents of this cite the cam's ability to "make power down low at RPM's where you're actually driving the car around town at". I don't personally understand why you'd want the power there. If I'm just putting around town, I'm just putting around town. I don't need 500rwhp before 5000rpm. Up through 3000rpm, the car's natural ability to make power is more than enough for the 1/2 throttle I'm giving it to get from stop light to stop light.

When I'm actually needing the power, I'm staying at the top of the powerband anyways. Shifting at 6-7K, the tach drops back no further than a couple thousand RPM, and stays in that upper band.

This considered, I currently run a 234/240 on stock compression with .598/.608 lift numbers, on a 112 lobe sep. The car makes it's best power up around 6500rpm, which is exactly where I want it. I don't need race car power unless I'm driving it in a race car fasion, which is in the upper 3k.

But, that's just my logic.

 

I dont have an amazing tuner. Im going to have to drive at least 2 hours to get to one and Im not even sure whos going to do that either. Another problem in my quest for more N/A power. Im not sure if an idle that high would be good for the cars driveability around town. It idles around 725 right now and it still creeps forward pretty good when I let off the brake and its stalled.

I do value your input though and I take everything you have to say in consideration though. I just want to make sure I have all the information neccessary before making my decision. As far as fly cutting is concerned I am going to measure I have every intention of doing so I just want to get a ball park so I know what kind of equipment I need to gather before starting my install.

 

A 232/234 112 is +9 overlap. A 236/115 is +6....it will tame easier.

 

So the lower the overlap the tamer the cam is at idle? How do you figure for overlap? There is so much info here Im in over my head.

 

The higher idle would be better for taming the cam.

A 230/230 115+2 XFI makes only 15hp less and is a zero overlap cam. Drives great and is far stronger than your non-XFI lobed 228 cam. 465-470rwhp on an auto with the FAST. Its midband is awesome. .612 intake lift. Fits with no fly-cut.

 

470 is do-able. I would like to get around maybe 485. How much difference would there be between a wildly ported factory manifold and a fast? Adding a fast would be like another 900 bucks to the build and Im trying my best to keep this thing on a budget as well (uncle sam dont pay that great).

 

If you have HPtuners, I can get you a great tune from e-mailing the scans and updates to the tune.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with porting. The runners in the FAST are tuned for a higher 6300rpm HP peak. You cant do that to the stocker no matter what you carve out of it. 20rwtq in the midband is starters and the higher RPM HP peak coincides with the higher peak RPM of the cam. If you dont use the FAST you will need to tighten the LSA to 113+1 to peak lower.

I bet the FAST with your current cam will outdo the 236 cam with the stock intake. You're choking the heads.

I can port a stoker with the internal posts cut out for 275. Its about 15-16rwhp

 

I do have hp tuners. Im having a little trouble getting an application key right now (just got it from a member here). Doing my tune that way may save me a little cash too but how would I get it tuned throughout the full range? It would be kinda dangerous to WOT around the streets of OK you know what I mean.

 

Ok now that I understand. Maybe I can try to scrape some cash together and purchase a spin fast.

 

Getting a Ported FAST will do alot for the midrange and not negatively effect drivability. On a stalled auto with a cam, I'd expect .2 to .3 improvement from the Ported FAST. Do this first. If it is still not enough do a cam swap later.

 

Yeah Im going to add this to the list. I spoke with spin and the problem is the overlap on my cam is shortening my power band by almost 1000rpm. He took some time out of his schedule to school me a little on cams and airflow etc. I learned a lot just from a 30 min conversation. I have a pretty damn good idea of what Im going to do now after talking with him.

Thanks Spin!

 

Formula:

[Intake duration + exhaust duration]/2 minus the LSA x 2

So for a 230/230 115 its:

[230+230=460]/2=230-(115x2)

=230-230=0

Your current cam:

[228+230]/2=229-[113x2]

229-226=3 degrees overlap

The 232 torquer 2 on a 112:

[232+234]/2=233-[112x2]

=233-224=9 degrees overlap and he said he couldnt tame it in the tune.

 

Not trying to hi jack the thread, figured it's in the ball park. Does less overlap equate to a less lopey idle? Less of a cammed sound??

 

I went with a 228/232 cam on a 114 LSA in my LS3. It has great driveability but I occasionally wish I had gone with a more aggressive cam for more power. I also agree with what SlickShoes said...the power I care about most is in the upper rpm range. When I really need every ounce of power the car has is when I'm running the car in the upper 2500-3000 rpm.