Will I need immediate tuning?
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 395
From: Tampa FL
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Will I need immediate tuning?
I am adding the following to my 05 C6 M6 coupe
BPP Vortex
OBX headers/w cat delete (keeping all O2 sensors)
1.8 YT NA rockers
7.4 chromoly push rods
Comp 918 springs with supporting hardware
FAST 102
Ported LS2 TB
May add (pretty sure these would need immediate tuning)
NW 102 TB
100mm MAF/ w LS7 sensor
BPP Vortex
OBX headers/w cat delete (keeping all O2 sensors)
1.8 YT NA rockers
7.4 chromoly push rods
Comp 918 springs with supporting hardware
FAST 102
Ported LS2 TB
May add (pretty sure these would need immediate tuning)
NW 102 TB
100mm MAF/ w LS7 sensor
Last edited by Cajun @ Edgyvette; Oct 8, 2010 at 04:04 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
St. Jude Donor '08
I would have it tuned pretty quick. I have a question though. You say keeping all 4 O2's, but deleting the cats. I am assuming that you are just using the rear O2's to simply plug the hole in the pipe, but will have them turned off right? The rears are used for catalyst monitoring and with no cats, there will be zero reason to have them in there other then to plug the holes. You are going to immediately see a check engine light with all that stuff you're adding.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 395
From: Tampa FL
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
I would have it tuned pretty quick. I have a question though. You say keeping all 4 O2's, but deleting the cats. I am assuming that you are just using the rear O2's to simply plug the hole in the pipe, but will have them turned off right? The rears are used for catalyst monitoring and with no cats, there will be zero reason to have them in there other then to plug the holes. You are going to immediately see a check engine light with all that stuff you're adding.Cajun
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
From: SPRING HILL FL
The search button is your friend
Call some shops up before the install. There are some great shops with great tuners in them, You should get real answers. After install, if you take it real easy, you should have now problem going 60 miles, or install it all at the tuners place, Have you asked him about the driving 60 miles to get to him?, he should know.
Call some shops up before the install. There are some great shops with great tuners in them, You should get real answers. After install, if you take it real easy, you should have now problem going 60 miles, or install it all at the tuners place, Have you asked him about the driving 60 miles to get to him?, he should know.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 995
Likes: 2
From: Virginia Beach VA
You'll make it
But I would take it very easy, you'll get a CEL at least. That's a fair amount of work w/o a tune, but as long as it's properly done you'll make it w/o harming anything. Your biggest concern is the amount of changes for a/f ratios caused by the mods. I think you'll fool the car into running too rich which in 60 miles will cause the exhaust pipe heat way up, but w/ no cats shouldn't make a difference.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,630
Likes: 188
From: Austin TX
Drive it yes. I would be a little easy on getting on it. Best thing to do since its 60miles is to take it around the block 3-4 times in 20 minute intervals. you are gonna throw a check engine light that wont go away but you will need to run it a few times to let the ECM get "used" to the setting. Your first couple of drives the car could sputter and run rough. It should adjust enough to get you to the tuner. It will still show a check engine light and might bark a couple of times but you will still get there and not cause any damage.
On another note, if its only 60miles, see if you have a friend or if the tuner knows someone in your area who can trailer it. This would reduse any problems and most of all, stress
On another note, if its only 60miles, see if you have a friend or if the tuner knows someone in your area who can trailer it. This would reduse any problems and most of all, stress
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
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From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Definitely get a SES light. You should be OK if you just keep your foot out of the throttle.
Do a search on-line on setting up the Yella Terra roller rockers. You should not order the pushrods until you shim the rockers to the right height. Then use an adjustable pushrod to determine the correct length. Every car is different.
Do a search on-line on setting up the Yella Terra roller rockers. You should not order the pushrods until you shim the rockers to the right height. Then use an adjustable pushrod to determine the correct length. Every car is different.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,269
Likes: 25
From: Simi Valley Ca
There was a thread posted here the other day that mentioned a solution for the rear O2 sensors when the cats are removed. They are called Mini Cat O2 Sensor CEL FIX.
It retains the rear O2 senosrs but allows them to provide the correct data thus avoiding the CEL light. Here is a link to it.
http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html
It retains the rear O2 senosrs but allows them to provide the correct data thus avoiding the CEL light. Here is a link to it.
http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
There was a thread posted here the other day that mentioned a solution for the rear O2 sensors when the cats are removed. They are called Mini Cat O2 Sensor CEL FIX.
It retains the rear O2 senosrs but allows them to provide the correct data thus avoiding the CEL light. Here is a link to it.
http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html
It retains the rear O2 senosrs but allows them to provide the correct data thus avoiding the CEL light. Here is a link to it.
http://www.bigdaddiesgarage.com/mini-cat-cel-fix.html
For the GM cars, the rear O2 sensors CEL codes (or SES) light can be permanently turned off in the tune. Guys that have removed their CATS probably have tunes so the solution would be to turn the rear O2 sensors off.
There are a number of sites on the web which give detailed instructions and most tuners do this anyway.
Last edited by Mez; Oct 11, 2010 at 01:13 PM.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 395
From: Tampa FL
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
So can I leave the rear O2 sensors out and drive or will they have to be hooked up and just get crazy readings.
I am using the OBX system so there are "high flow cats" on the pipes but they look like straight through resonaters to me.
Cajun
I am using the OBX system so there are "high flow cats" on the pipes but they look like straight through resonaters to me.
Cajun
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,712
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From: TEXOMA
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
it will not even start if you add the 102 tb and ls7 maf without it being tuned. opps, correction, if you install the ls7 maf, dont plug it in and the car will go into sd mode, but without an IAT reading, u could have some problems.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
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From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
The only thing they do is tell the PCM if the CATs are working and how efficient they are when in closed loop. The front O2 sensors are there to feedback to the PCM if its rich or lean so the PCM can make adjustments when in closed loop.
You need to read up on how the PCM works.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,666
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From: Tampa FL
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
Install them.
The only thing they do is tell the PCM if the CATs are working and how efficient they are when in closed loop. The front O2 sensors are there to feedback to the PCM if its rich or lean so the PCM can make adjustments when in closed loop.
You need to read up on how the PCM works.
The only thing they do is tell the PCM if the CATs are working and how efficient they are when in closed loop. The front O2 sensors are there to feedback to the PCM if its rich or lean so the PCM can make adjustments when in closed loop.
You need to read up on how the PCM works.
As long as I can get down there without hurting the car I am good to go. It will have an LS2 TB and MAF on it until I get to the tuners.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
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From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Definitely wait until you get there to install the new MAF & TB.
Of course, start it, let it warm up at idle in the driveway, then drive the car around the block. You will get the SES light and multiple codes. The LTFT need time to learn in closed loop and it should compensate to bring the a/f ratio back in line. Hopefully, it won't need 25% more fuel. As long as its not too far out of whack, it should be OK. But keep it below 2000 rpm and no sudden throttle changes to be safe. It will probably idle like crap for a few minutes until the front O2 and LTFT get re-acclimated.
All bets are off if you use half throttle and it goes into Open Loop.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,666
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From: Tampa FL
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12'-'13-'14-'15
I started it up today. Man it is fluttering back and forth from 800-1000 RPM and sputtering pretty bad. No backfires or anything but very rough. I changed the plugs out to NGK TR55 and have the same 9mm Magnecore wires on there. I am getting the CEL and the REDUCED ENGINE POWER immediately upon startup. I also get the check traction system light but dont know why that would be.
I will try to pull it out and drive it a little to see if that helps get the AFR a little closer. The first time I started it I had the MAF unplugged. I killed it, plugged it in and it still was the same. I was hoping that was causing it to flutter so badly but unluckily it was not.
Cajun
I will try to pull it out and drive it a little to see if that helps get the AFR a little closer. The first time I started it I had the MAF unplugged. I killed it, plugged it in and it still was the same. I was hoping that was causing it to flutter so badly but unluckily it was not.
Cajun
