Why can't it ever be easy?
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
Okay, got some interesting results.
With Just the TC turned off, I can do an old fashioned brake stand for hours. Once I tried using the line lock, we got the same results that started this thread.
Working off of what Andy suggested, I rested my foot on the brake pedal, applying slight pressure, and didn't get any lights while doing a burnout. Applying voltage to the ckt without any pedal pressure resulted in the same warning messages. So it seems to be a pressure differential problem. On a whim, I tried applying the line lock in Park, and everything was good, untill I took my foot off of the brake pedal. I then took a look at the ABS module, and it does seem that the pressure sensors are internal, as the hydraulic unit has an ECM type connector going to it with no other wires running anywhere else.
I'm going to ECS in the AM to see if Doug's magic fingers can find a way around this problem. If we still can't get it, the next step will be for me to sell this brand new kit, and fab up my own dual line lock kit for the 2010+ cars.
With Just the TC turned off, I can do an old fashioned brake stand for hours. Once I tried using the line lock, we got the same results that started this thread.
Working off of what Andy suggested, I rested my foot on the brake pedal, applying slight pressure, and didn't get any lights while doing a burnout. Applying voltage to the ckt without any pedal pressure resulted in the same warning messages. So it seems to be a pressure differential problem. On a whim, I tried applying the line lock in Park, and everything was good, untill I took my foot off of the brake pedal. I then took a look at the ABS module, and it does seem that the pressure sensors are internal, as the hydraulic unit has an ECM type connector going to it with no other wires running anywhere else.
I'm going to ECS in the AM to see if Doug's magic fingers can find a way around this problem. If we still can't get it, the next step will be for me to sell this brand new kit, and fab up my own dual line lock kit for the 2010+ cars.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
No, I didn't, but if air was trapped in the module, I'd have a constant light and a spongy pedal. I've got neither. I can count on one hand how many times I've actually needed to plug into the car to bleed the brakes, and those were when the system had gone completely dry, or the module itself was replaced.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 23
From: Santa Barbara CA
Okay, got some interesting results.
With Just the TC turned off, I can do an old fashioned brake stand for hours. Once I tried using the line lock, we got the same results that started this thread.
Working off of what Andy suggested, I rested my foot on the brake pedal, applying slight pressure, and didn't get any lights while doing a burnout. Applying voltage to the ckt without any pedal pressure resulted in the same warning messages. So it seems to be a pressure differential problem. On a whim, I tried applying the line lock in Park, and everything was good, untill I took my foot off of the brake pedal. I then took a look at the ABS module, and it does seem that the pressure sensors are internal, as the hydraulic unit has an ECM type connector going to it with no other wires running anywhere else.
I'm going to ECS in the AM to see if Doug's magic fingers can find a way around this problem. If we still can't get it, the next step will be for me to sell this brand new kit, and fab up my own dual line lock kit for the 2010+ cars.
With Just the TC turned off, I can do an old fashioned brake stand for hours. Once I tried using the line lock, we got the same results that started this thread.
Working off of what Andy suggested, I rested my foot on the brake pedal, applying slight pressure, and didn't get any lights while doing a burnout. Applying voltage to the ckt without any pedal pressure resulted in the same warning messages. So it seems to be a pressure differential problem. On a whim, I tried applying the line lock in Park, and everything was good, untill I took my foot off of the brake pedal. I then took a look at the ABS module, and it does seem that the pressure sensors are internal, as the hydraulic unit has an ECM type connector going to it with no other wires running anywhere else.
I'm going to ECS in the AM to see if Doug's magic fingers can find a way around this problem. If we still can't get it, the next step will be for me to sell this brand new kit, and fab up my own dual line lock kit for the 2010+ cars.
So it sounds like I was on the right track. I don't know how the C6 brake light switch is wired, but maybe you could splice into the wiring in a way that you could trip the light switch when the line-lock is activated. Basically, it would be the same as applying light pressure on the pedal. I think the ECMs just want to see brake lights activated when there is pressure present. The brake light switches on most new cars just see an on/off signal; it doesn't detect how hard or far you push the pedal. I think taking as good look at the 2010 ETM would be a good place to start.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
So it sounds like I was on the right track. I don't know how the C6 brake light switch is wired, but maybe you could splice into the wiring in a way that you could trip the light switch when the line-lock is activated. Basically, it would be the same as applying light pressure on the pedal. I think the ECMs just want to see brake lights activated when there is pressure present. The brake light switches on most new cars just see an on/off signal; it doesn't detect how hard or far you push the pedal. I think taking as good look at the 2010 ETM would be a good place to start.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,493
Likes: 808
From: West coast CA
No it won't. The Tech II is needed if you really want to flush the thimble of brake fluid captive in the ABS module, or in the off chance that you ran everything dry and somehow got some air in there.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
Things we learned today....
The ABS module only has one pressure sensor in it, and is tied into the BRAKE PEDAL POSITION SWITCH. If it senses pressure with the pedal at full rest, it will trigger the messages and shut all the systems down. So now I need to chase down a wiring diagram for the BOO and see if it's 12V or 5V. 12V will be easy enough to get a signal jumped into it with a relay, so it doesn't back feed the line lock everytime I step on the brake pedal. It could be a pain in the **** if it's only a 5V reference.
Anybody have access to ALLDATA or Mitchells to get a wiring diagram? If not, I'll swing by the local dealer and see if they can print one out for me. Looks like my purchasing of the shop manual set for this car just got ramped up a few notches on the priority list.
The ABS module only has one pressure sensor in it, and is tied into the BRAKE PEDAL POSITION SWITCH. If it senses pressure with the pedal at full rest, it will trigger the messages and shut all the systems down. So now I need to chase down a wiring diagram for the BOO and see if it's 12V or 5V. 12V will be easy enough to get a signal jumped into it with a relay, so it doesn't back feed the line lock everytime I step on the brake pedal. It could be a pain in the **** if it's only a 5V reference.
Anybody have access to ALLDATA or Mitchells to get a wiring diagram? If not, I'll swing by the local dealer and see if they can print one out for me. Looks like my purchasing of the shop manual set for this car just got ramped up a few notches on the priority list.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Things we learned today....
The ABS module only has one pressure sensor in it, and is tied into the BRAKE PEDAL POSITION SWITCH. If it senses pressure with the pedal at full rest, it will trigger the messages and shut all the systems down. So now I need to chase down a wiring diagram for the BOO and see if it's 12V or 5V. 12V will be easy enough to get a signal jumped into it with a relay, so it doesn't back feed the line lock everytime I step on the brake pedal. It could be a pain in the **** if it's only a 5V reference.
Anybody have access to ALLDATA or Mitchells to get a wiring diagram? If not, I'll swing by the local dealer and see if they can print one out for me. Looks like my purchasing of the shop manual set for this car just got ramped up a few notches on the priority list.
The ABS module only has one pressure sensor in it, and is tied into the BRAKE PEDAL POSITION SWITCH. If it senses pressure with the pedal at full rest, it will trigger the messages and shut all the systems down. So now I need to chase down a wiring diagram for the BOO and see if it's 12V or 5V. 12V will be easy enough to get a signal jumped into it with a relay, so it doesn't back feed the line lock everytime I step on the brake pedal. It could be a pain in the **** if it's only a 5V reference.
Anybody have access to ALLDATA or Mitchells to get a wiring diagram? If not, I'll swing by the local dealer and see if they can print one out for me. Looks like my purchasing of the shop manual set for this car just got ramped up a few notches on the priority list.
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
But we beleive it's more than just wanting the brake lights lit up causing this.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
I wonder if the brake light switch is a simple momentary on and off like they used to be. If so one side is always hot and the other gets hot when the plunger is depressed. You could run a hot wire to the normally "not hot" wire from the line lock switch.
Actually might be worth trying to short out the brake light via shorting the connector to the brake light switch with a paper clip and trying it before you go running more wire.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
Hmmm....two momentary switches? Lol.
I wonder if the brake light switch is a simple momentary on and off like they used to be. If so one side is always hot and the other gets hot when the plunger is depressed. You could run a hot wire to the normally "not hot" wire from the line lock switch.
Actually might be worth trying to short out the brake light via shorting the connector to the brake light switch with a paper clip and trying it before you go running more wire.
I wonder if the brake light switch is a simple momentary on and off like they used to be. If so one side is always hot and the other gets hot when the plunger is depressed. You could run a hot wire to the normally "not hot" wire from the line lock switch.
Actually might be worth trying to short out the brake light via shorting the connector to the brake light switch with a paper clip and trying it before you go running more wire.
I'll know more once I visually check the brake pedal and see a wiring diagram. Last thing I want to do is send 12V down a 5V line and let the smoke out of a BCM or ABS module.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
I gotta dive under the dash and take a look. The problem is, I'd need to either run a relay or a second switch, because everytime I step on the brake, the normally not hot side would become hot and send voltage to the line lock.
I'll know more once I visually check the brake pedal and see a wiring diagram. Last thing I want to do is send 12V down a 5V line and let the smoke out of a BCM or ABS module.
I'll know more once I visually check the brake pedal and see a wiring diagram. Last thing I want to do is send 12V down a 5V line and let the smoke out of a BCM or ABS module.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
Finally had some time today to pull the under dash panel and take a look at the brake position switch. It's a 3 wire sensor at the very top of the brake pedal (power in, power out and a ground), so it looks like the fix is going to be easy enough. Tap into the power in wire of the switch and run it to a relay, do the same for the power out. Run a ground from the relay and lastly run the 12V activation leg from the relay to the switched side of the line lock switch. Doing this will eliminate the worry of sending 12V down a 5V line, because you're just sending back what the BCM sends out, making the BCM think that the brake pedal is depressed.
I'm not going to have a chance to get this done before my planned trip to ECS, so the job is theirs to do.
I'm not going to have a chance to get this done before my planned trip to ECS, so the job is theirs to do.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Likes: 17
From: Calabash, NC
Just got back in from ECS. The relay has corrected the problem entirely
, however the wiring is not quite as straight forward as I had initially thought. The setup that Tommy came up with includes resistors and diodes to reduce the chance of frequncy bleedback to the BCM. The early word is that they're tossing the idea of making a plug and play module up to make this install even easier.
, however the wiring is not quite as straight forward as I had initially thought. The setup that Tommy came up with includes resistors and diodes to reduce the chance of frequncy bleedback to the BCM. The early word is that they're tossing the idea of making a plug and play module up to make this install even easier.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 23
Likes: 5
From: Midwest
Just got back in from ECS. The relay has corrected the problem entirely, however the wiring is not quite as straight forward as I had initially thought. The setup that Tommy came up with includes resistors and diodes to reduce the chance of frequncy bleedback to the BCM. The early word is that they're tossing the idea of making a plug and play module up to make this install even easier.
, however the wiring is not quite as straight forward as I had initially thought. The setup that Tommy came up with includes resistors and diodes to reduce the chance of frequncy bleedback to the BCM. The early word is that they're tossing the idea of making a plug and play module up to make this install even easier.Did anything ever come of this? Looking for more details as I am planning to add line lock to my 2011 GS. I’ll try reaching out to ECS as well.