How is Performance Best Described?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 2
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
How is Your Auto Purchase Best Described?
How would you best describe the criteria of a car when buying?
1. Daily Driving Only, ie., Quickness (0-60 & 0-Max Speed Limit), Handling (Cornering and Braking), Comfort, Curb Appeal.
2. Daily Driving and Tracking Potential, Quickness, Straight Away Accelleration (50-130), Handling, Cockpit Layout, Braking.
3. All of the above.
This is NOT limited to Corvettes but any sports car.
1. Daily Driving Only, ie., Quickness (0-60 & 0-Max Speed Limit), Handling (Cornering and Braking), Comfort, Curb Appeal.
2. Daily Driving and Tracking Potential, Quickness, Straight Away Accelleration (50-130), Handling, Cockpit Layout, Braking.
3. All of the above.
This is NOT limited to Corvettes but any sports car.
Last edited by CPG1962; Jan 2, 2011 at 06:44 AM.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 621
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
OK, I think I'll take a crack at this.
There are really only three things a car can do in terms of motion: forward acceleration, braking, and cornering.
I come from a road course/street car background, so I view all three as critically important, but related.
1. Forward Acceleration: this is mostly a purely mathematical function of the horsepower to weight ratio. What I think is interesting is that most people know the horsepower of their sports car, but much fewer know the curb weight. There are equal effects on acceleration if you lower the cars weight by 20% compared to increasing horsepower by 20%. Furthermore, decreasing curb weight has very beneficial effects on braking and cornering while engine power does not. The first thing I ask about a sports car is "how much does it weigh". If you don't think this is as important as power, try following a spec Miata around a road course ! The Bowling Green Engineers have long done a terrific job on weight savings, much better than BMW and Porsche in my opinion. Starting from the balsa wood floors, titanium exhausts, now to the aluminum frames, magnesium cradles, and carbon fiber panes, they have done a terrific job. The current M3 weights 3700 lbs while my Z06 weighs 3180 !
2) Braking: This is critical, yet an often overlooked performance parameter. I heard a lecture one time from a Porsche club driving instructor (who was blistering fast) who said, "the first thing most people do when they get into a sports car is jump on the throttle to see what happens. The first thing I do is jump on the brakes to see what happens". I have come to see the wisdom in this remark. If you don't have good brakes, you really can't go fast for any extended period of time. Even Top Fuel guys need the chutes !
On a road course or on the street, brakes are critical for performance. In my C5 and C6, I am very comfortable braking in the 140 to 160 mph range and can really control distance between other cars very accurately at these speeds. The Porsches and BMWs do have great brakes as well. Note that the caveat about weight is just as important for braking as acceleration; braking a 3800 lb car takes exponentially greater braking power than a 3200 lb car (same difference if your car weighs 2750 lbs like the C6R). The vette brakes are stout, the C5 brakes are often underestimated and the C6 systems are even better. Having said that, most advanced Road Racers will upgrade Corvette brakes (almost always as a higher priority than increased power).
3) Cornering: This last performance parameter is not relevant to drag racing, but very important for the street car and for the road course car. Cornering is how fast you can take a turn (duh !). It is mostly a function of suspension and tires. The Corvette in stock form has great cornering ability for the street. If you want more, the first thing to change is tires, and for the racing track, nothing makes as big a difference in going faster as does changing to R-compound slicks like the Hoosier R6. Much has been said about our tranverse leaf spring suspension, however, in my opinion, it works pretty well for combined street/casual track use. The SCCA T1 racers use a stiffer version of the leaf spring system and it is very competitive (the Z06s have dominated this class for years). My own experience has been that properly set up coilovers can increase cornering performance even further by decreasing body roll and increasing compliance. Do note that the LeMans Racing cars all have coilover suspension, so this is probably the best design for cornering.
OK, a few random thoughts to consider. Lets say you are on the Memphis motorsports track going through the the last turn leading onto the 3/4 mile straightaway. My observations have been that 350 hp vettes reach the braking zone at about 140 mph while 450 hp vettes reach it at 150 mph. That's right, 10 mph difference (+/- 5 mph) for 100 hp. So you want to go 150 mph in your C5 ? You can add 100 hp, but that costs a lot of money, and almost definitely will decrease your overall reliability compared to stock. Between engine issues, cooling issues, tranny and drivetrain issues, the modded engine car is not as likely to run all weekend as the stock car.
Now here is the kicker...... Get better tires +/- minor suspension mods, and as a result, YOU ENTER THE STAIGHTAWAY 10 mph faster than the 450 hp car. In other words, increase grip and cornering allow you to exit the last turn and enter the straightaway at 70 versus 60 mph. The result is that you now enter the braking zone at 150 mph (140 + 10), or to say it a different way, the improved grip was worth 100 hp. It really does work this way.
Another way to illustrate the same point is to take a look at the recent Road and Track article comparing the Street version of the C6R GT2 car compared to the ZR1. The ZR1 has 640 hp versus 470 hp for the GT2 car, a big power difference. However, the GT2 car was faster at every point on the track, sometimes by as much a 10 mph. How did it do this... significantly lighter weight, way more cornering power, probably about equal brakes. This is to say nothing bad about the ZR1, in fact, of all the stock showroom cars (M3, 911, Ferarri, Jag), the ZR1 was closest to its respective GT2 racing version, however it remains a good illustration of the limits of "engine power focus" as a sole parameter of performance.
I think great performance means a great balance of forward acceleration, braking, and cornering. You are only as fast as your weakest link allows. The vette packs tremendous perfomance per dollar in all 3 categories, largely because they have kept the weight of the car down, have more powerful engines than their competitors, have improved the brakes over previous older generations, and because of their neutral balance and great cornering abilities.
Of course, the most important performance factor is the driver, and here is where my biggest limitation lies
Since I'm on a caffeine rant, allow me one other point. While Reliability is not strictly a performance metric, it is important and related. Obviously, if you car is in the shop, or in the pits with steam coming out from the hood, your performance stinks and a Honda Civic could whup you in a race. As a rule of thumb, most performance mods decrease reliability, most particularly engine mods. Of course, there are always exceptions, but this is mostly true. In terms of Reliability, I give the C5 an "A" grade and the C6 a "B-". The C5 can take an incredible amount of abuse and keep ticking. The C6s have shown less durability on the road course for a variety of reasons that are well documented on this forum. Now, I"ll go out on a limb even further, I think the Corvette formula of "high performance per dollar" comes at the relative expense of reliability. Its not that the vettes are unreliable, I just think they may be less reliable than other more expensive brands (Porsche 911 for instance). Of course, the 911 costs a lot more money for less performance, but I think this is one of the the reasons why. In a sense, this is not surprising, as you push a car faster and faster with more power and cornering ability, it is more prone to breaking down at the limits. This is especially true when you push performance limits and minimize the cost of parts, as Corvette has done. My C5 has 90K miles on it and has been absolutely punished on the road courses and the street without any major unexpected mechanical issues. Having said that, the engine is pretty much stock, which I think explains part of it. I would not feel as confident doing that with my C6 Z06, but maybe I'm just paranoid about it. (OK, here come the flames, I know some will disagree). Performance, Price, Reliability..... pick the 2 you want, you can't have all 3.
There are really only three things a car can do in terms of motion: forward acceleration, braking, and cornering.
I come from a road course/street car background, so I view all three as critically important, but related.
1. Forward Acceleration: this is mostly a purely mathematical function of the horsepower to weight ratio. What I think is interesting is that most people know the horsepower of their sports car, but much fewer know the curb weight. There are equal effects on acceleration if you lower the cars weight by 20% compared to increasing horsepower by 20%. Furthermore, decreasing curb weight has very beneficial effects on braking and cornering while engine power does not. The first thing I ask about a sports car is "how much does it weigh". If you don't think this is as important as power, try following a spec Miata around a road course ! The Bowling Green Engineers have long done a terrific job on weight savings, much better than BMW and Porsche in my opinion. Starting from the balsa wood floors, titanium exhausts, now to the aluminum frames, magnesium cradles, and carbon fiber panes, they have done a terrific job. The current M3 weights 3700 lbs while my Z06 weighs 3180 !
2) Braking: This is critical, yet an often overlooked performance parameter. I heard a lecture one time from a Porsche club driving instructor (who was blistering fast) who said, "the first thing most people do when they get into a sports car is jump on the throttle to see what happens. The first thing I do is jump on the brakes to see what happens". I have come to see the wisdom in this remark. If you don't have good brakes, you really can't go fast for any extended period of time. Even Top Fuel guys need the chutes !
On a road course or on the street, brakes are critical for performance. In my C5 and C6, I am very comfortable braking in the 140 to 160 mph range and can really control distance between other cars very accurately at these speeds. The Porsches and BMWs do have great brakes as well. Note that the caveat about weight is just as important for braking as acceleration; braking a 3800 lb car takes exponentially greater braking power than a 3200 lb car (same difference if your car weighs 2750 lbs like the C6R). The vette brakes are stout, the C5 brakes are often underestimated and the C6 systems are even better. Having said that, most advanced Road Racers will upgrade Corvette brakes (almost always as a higher priority than increased power).
3) Cornering: This last performance parameter is not relevant to drag racing, but very important for the street car and for the road course car. Cornering is how fast you can take a turn (duh !). It is mostly a function of suspension and tires. The Corvette in stock form has great cornering ability for the street. If you want more, the first thing to change is tires, and for the racing track, nothing makes as big a difference in going faster as does changing to R-compound slicks like the Hoosier R6. Much has been said about our tranverse leaf spring suspension, however, in my opinion, it works pretty well for combined street/casual track use. The SCCA T1 racers use a stiffer version of the leaf spring system and it is very competitive (the Z06s have dominated this class for years). My own experience has been that properly set up coilovers can increase cornering performance even further by decreasing body roll and increasing compliance. Do note that the LeMans Racing cars all have coilover suspension, so this is probably the best design for cornering.
OK, a few random thoughts to consider. Lets say you are on the Memphis motorsports track going through the the last turn leading onto the 3/4 mile straightaway. My observations have been that 350 hp vettes reach the braking zone at about 140 mph while 450 hp vettes reach it at 150 mph. That's right, 10 mph difference (+/- 5 mph) for 100 hp. So you want to go 150 mph in your C5 ? You can add 100 hp, but that costs a lot of money, and almost definitely will decrease your overall reliability compared to stock. Between engine issues, cooling issues, tranny and drivetrain issues, the modded engine car is not as likely to run all weekend as the stock car.
Now here is the kicker...... Get better tires +/- minor suspension mods, and as a result, YOU ENTER THE STAIGHTAWAY 10 mph faster than the 450 hp car. In other words, increase grip and cornering allow you to exit the last turn and enter the straightaway at 70 versus 60 mph. The result is that you now enter the braking zone at 150 mph (140 + 10), or to say it a different way, the improved grip was worth 100 hp. It really does work this way.
Another way to illustrate the same point is to take a look at the recent Road and Track article comparing the Street version of the C6R GT2 car compared to the ZR1. The ZR1 has 640 hp versus 470 hp for the GT2 car, a big power difference. However, the GT2 car was faster at every point on the track, sometimes by as much a 10 mph. How did it do this... significantly lighter weight, way more cornering power, probably about equal brakes. This is to say nothing bad about the ZR1, in fact, of all the stock showroom cars (M3, 911, Ferarri, Jag), the ZR1 was closest to its respective GT2 racing version, however it remains a good illustration of the limits of "engine power focus" as a sole parameter of performance.
I think great performance means a great balance of forward acceleration, braking, and cornering. You are only as fast as your weakest link allows. The vette packs tremendous perfomance per dollar in all 3 categories, largely because they have kept the weight of the car down, have more powerful engines than their competitors, have improved the brakes over previous older generations, and because of their neutral balance and great cornering abilities.
Of course, the most important performance factor is the driver, and here is where my biggest limitation lies
Since I'm on a caffeine rant, allow me one other point. While Reliability is not strictly a performance metric, it is important and related. Obviously, if you car is in the shop, or in the pits with steam coming out from the hood, your performance stinks and a Honda Civic could whup you in a race. As a rule of thumb, most performance mods decrease reliability, most particularly engine mods. Of course, there are always exceptions, but this is mostly true. In terms of Reliability, I give the C5 an "A" grade and the C6 a "B-". The C5 can take an incredible amount of abuse and keep ticking. The C6s have shown less durability on the road course for a variety of reasons that are well documented on this forum. Now, I"ll go out on a limb even further, I think the Corvette formula of "high performance per dollar" comes at the relative expense of reliability. Its not that the vettes are unreliable, I just think they may be less reliable than other more expensive brands (Porsche 911 for instance). Of course, the 911 costs a lot more money for less performance, but I think this is one of the the reasons why. In a sense, this is not surprising, as you push a car faster and faster with more power and cornering ability, it is more prone to breaking down at the limits. This is especially true when you push performance limits and minimize the cost of parts, as Corvette has done. My C5 has 90K miles on it and has been absolutely punished on the road courses and the street without any major unexpected mechanical issues. Having said that, the engine is pretty much stock, which I think explains part of it. I would not feel as confident doing that with my C6 Z06, but maybe I'm just paranoid about it. (OK, here come the flames, I know some will disagree). Performance, Price, Reliability..... pick the 2 you want, you can't have all 3.
Last edited by redZ06bri; Jan 2, 2011 at 12:02 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,331
Likes: 18
From: Missouri City Texas
My only concern when buying a car is performance, and it needs to perform well in straight line power, braking and handling.
I do disagree with the Performance, Price and Reliability statement because the Corvette and 5.0 Mustang fit that perfectly. Cheap, Reliable and perform very well.
I would say that Performance, Price and Quality would be a better "pick 2" statement.
I do disagree with the Performance, Price and Reliability statement because the Corvette and 5.0 Mustang fit that perfectly. Cheap, Reliable and perform very well.
I would say that Performance, Price and Quality would be a better "pick 2" statement.
Last edited by FloydSummerOf68; Jan 2, 2011 at 01:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 2
St. Jude Donor '09-'10
Excellent write-up. Thanks for the time and effort you expended. Happy New Year!
OK, I think I'll take a crack at this.
There are really only three things a car can do in terms of motion: forward acceleration, braking, and cornering.
I come from a road course/street car background, so I view all three as critically important, but related.
1. Forward Acceleration: this is mostly a purely mathematical function of the horsepower to weight ratio. What I think is interesting is that most people know the horsepower of their sports car, but much fewer know the curb weight. There are equal effects on acceleration if you lower the cars weight by 20% compared to increasing horsepower by 20%. Furthermore, decreasing curb weight has very beneficial effects on braking and cornering while engine power does not. The first thing I ask about a sports car is "how much does it weigh". If you don't think this is as important as power, try following a spec Miata around a road course ! The Bowling Green Engineers have long done a terrific job on weight savings, much better than BMW and Porsche in my opinion. Starting from the balsa wood floors, titanium exhausts, now to the aluminum frames, magnesium cradles, and carbon fiber panes, they have done a terrific job. The current M3 weights 3700 lbs while my Z06 weighs 3180 !
2) Braking: This is critical, yet an often overlooked performance parameter. I heard a lecture one time from a Porsche club driving instructor (who was blistering fast) who said, "the first thing most people do when they get into a sports car is jump on the throttle to see what happens. The first thing I do is jump on the brakes to see what happens". I have come to see the wisdom in this remark. If you don't have good brakes, you really can't go fast for any extended period of time. Even Top Fuel guys need the chutes !
On a road course or on the street, brakes are critical for performance. In my C5 and C6, I am very comfortable braking in the 140 to 160 mph range and can really control distance between other cars very accurately at these speeds. The Porsches and BMWs do have great brakes as well. Note that the caveat about weight is just as important for braking as acceleration; braking a 3800 lb car takes exponentially greater braking power than a 3200 lb car (same difference if your car weighs 2750 lbs like the C6R). The vette brakes are stout, the C5 brakes are often underestimated and the C6 systems are even better. Having said that, most advanced Road Racers will upgrade Corvette brakes (almost always as a higher priority than increased power).
3) Cornering: This last performance parameter is not relevant to drag racing, but very important for the street car and for the road course car. Cornering is how fast you can take a turn (duh !). It is mostly a function of suspension and tires. The Corvette in stock form has great cornering ability for the street. If you want more, the first thing to change is tires, and for the racing track, nothing makes as big a difference in going faster as does changing to R-compound slicks like the Hoosier R6. Much has been said about our tranverse leaf spring suspension, however, in my opinion, it works pretty well for combined street/casual track use. The SCCA T1 racers use a stiffer version of the leaf spring system and it is very competitive (the Z06s have dominated this class for years). My own experience has been that properly set up coilovers can increase cornering performance even further by decreasing body roll and increasing compliance. Do note that the LeMans Racing cars all have coilover suspension, so this is probably the best design for cornering.
OK, a few random thoughts to consider. Lets say you are on the Memphis motorsports track going through the the last turn leading onto the 3/4 mile straightaway. My observations have been that 350 hp vettes reach the braking zone at about 140 mph while 450 hp vettes reach it at 150 mph. That's right, 10 mph difference (+/- 5 mph) for 100 hp. So you want to go 150 mph in your C5 ? You can add 100 hp, but that costs a lot of money, and almost definitely will decrease your overall reliability compared to stock. Between engine issues, cooling issues, tranny and drivetrain issues, the modded engine car is not as likely to run all weekend as the stock car.
Now here is the kicker...... Get better tires +/- minor suspension mods, and as a result, YOU ENTER THE STAIGHTAWAY 10 mph faster than the 450 hp car. In other words, increase grip and cornering allow you to exit the last turn and enter the straightaway at 70 versus 60 mph. The result is that you now enter the braking zone at 150 mph (140 + 10), or to say it a different way, the improved grip was worth 100 hp. It really does work this way.
Another way to illustrate the same point is to take a look at the recent Road and Track article comparing the Street version of the C6R GT2 car compared to the ZR1. The ZR1 has 640 hp versus 470 hp for the GT2 car, a big power difference. However, the GT2 car was faster at every point on the track, sometimes by as much a 10 mph. How did it do this... significantly lighter weight, way more cornering power, probably about equal brakes. This is to say nothing bad about the ZR1, in fact, of all the stock showroom cars (M3, 911, Ferarri, Jag), the ZR1 was closest to its respective GT2 racing version, however it remains a good illustration of the limits of "engine power focus" as a sole parameter of performance.
I think great performance means a great balance of forward acceleration, braking, and cornering. You are only as fast as your weakest link allows. The vette packs tremendous perfomance per dollar in all 3 categories, largely because they have kept the weight of the car down, have more powerful engines than their competitors, have improved the brakes over previous older generations, and because of their neutral balance and great cornering abilities.
Of course, the most important performance factor is the driver, and here is where my biggest limitation lies
Since I'm on a caffeine rant, allow me one other point. While Reliability is not strictly a performance metric, it is important and related. Obviously, if you car is in the shop, or in the pits with steam coming out from the hood, your performance stinks and a Honda Civic could whup you in a race. As a rule of thumb, most performance mods decrease reliability, most particularly engine mods. Of course, there are always exceptions, but this is mostly true. In terms of Reliability, I give the C5 an "A" grade and the C6 a "B-". The C5 can take an incredible amount of abuse and keep ticking. The C6s have shown less durability on the road course for a variety of reasons that are well documented on this forum. Now, I"ll go out on a limb even further, I think the Corvette formula of "high performance per dollar" comes at the relative expense of reliability. Its not that the vettes are unreliable, I just think they may be less reliable than other more expensive brands (Porsche 911 for instance). Of course, the 911 costs a lot more money for less performance, but I think this is one of the the reasons why. In a sense, this is not surprising, as you push a car faster and faster with more power and cornering ability, it is more prone to breaking down at the limits. This is especially true when you push performance limits and minimize the cost of parts, as Corvette has done. My C5 has 90K miles on it and has been absolutely punished on the road courses and the street without any major unexpected mechanical issues. Having said that, the engine is pretty much stock, which I think explains part of it. I would not feel as confident doing that with my C6 Z06, but maybe I'm just paranoid about it. (OK, here come the flames, I know some will disagree). Performance, Price, Reliability..... pick the 2 you want, you can't have all 3.
There are really only three things a car can do in terms of motion: forward acceleration, braking, and cornering.
I come from a road course/street car background, so I view all three as critically important, but related.
1. Forward Acceleration: this is mostly a purely mathematical function of the horsepower to weight ratio. What I think is interesting is that most people know the horsepower of their sports car, but much fewer know the curb weight. There are equal effects on acceleration if you lower the cars weight by 20% compared to increasing horsepower by 20%. Furthermore, decreasing curb weight has very beneficial effects on braking and cornering while engine power does not. The first thing I ask about a sports car is "how much does it weigh". If you don't think this is as important as power, try following a spec Miata around a road course ! The Bowling Green Engineers have long done a terrific job on weight savings, much better than BMW and Porsche in my opinion. Starting from the balsa wood floors, titanium exhausts, now to the aluminum frames, magnesium cradles, and carbon fiber panes, they have done a terrific job. The current M3 weights 3700 lbs while my Z06 weighs 3180 !
2) Braking: This is critical, yet an often overlooked performance parameter. I heard a lecture one time from a Porsche club driving instructor (who was blistering fast) who said, "the first thing most people do when they get into a sports car is jump on the throttle to see what happens. The first thing I do is jump on the brakes to see what happens". I have come to see the wisdom in this remark. If you don't have good brakes, you really can't go fast for any extended period of time. Even Top Fuel guys need the chutes !
On a road course or on the street, brakes are critical for performance. In my C5 and C6, I am very comfortable braking in the 140 to 160 mph range and can really control distance between other cars very accurately at these speeds. The Porsches and BMWs do have great brakes as well. Note that the caveat about weight is just as important for braking as acceleration; braking a 3800 lb car takes exponentially greater braking power than a 3200 lb car (same difference if your car weighs 2750 lbs like the C6R). The vette brakes are stout, the C5 brakes are often underestimated and the C6 systems are even better. Having said that, most advanced Road Racers will upgrade Corvette brakes (almost always as a higher priority than increased power).
3) Cornering: This last performance parameter is not relevant to drag racing, but very important for the street car and for the road course car. Cornering is how fast you can take a turn (duh !). It is mostly a function of suspension and tires. The Corvette in stock form has great cornering ability for the street. If you want more, the first thing to change is tires, and for the racing track, nothing makes as big a difference in going faster as does changing to R-compound slicks like the Hoosier R6. Much has been said about our tranverse leaf spring suspension, however, in my opinion, it works pretty well for combined street/casual track use. The SCCA T1 racers use a stiffer version of the leaf spring system and it is very competitive (the Z06s have dominated this class for years). My own experience has been that properly set up coilovers can increase cornering performance even further by decreasing body roll and increasing compliance. Do note that the LeMans Racing cars all have coilover suspension, so this is probably the best design for cornering.
OK, a few random thoughts to consider. Lets say you are on the Memphis motorsports track going through the the last turn leading onto the 3/4 mile straightaway. My observations have been that 350 hp vettes reach the braking zone at about 140 mph while 450 hp vettes reach it at 150 mph. That's right, 10 mph difference (+/- 5 mph) for 100 hp. So you want to go 150 mph in your C5 ? You can add 100 hp, but that costs a lot of money, and almost definitely will decrease your overall reliability compared to stock. Between engine issues, cooling issues, tranny and drivetrain issues, the modded engine car is not as likely to run all weekend as the stock car.
Now here is the kicker...... Get better tires +/- minor suspension mods, and as a result, YOU ENTER THE STAIGHTAWAY 10 mph faster than the 450 hp car. In other words, increase grip and cornering allow you to exit the last turn and enter the straightaway at 70 versus 60 mph. The result is that you now enter the braking zone at 150 mph (140 + 10), or to say it a different way, the improved grip was worth 100 hp. It really does work this way.
Another way to illustrate the same point is to take a look at the recent Road and Track article comparing the Street version of the C6R GT2 car compared to the ZR1. The ZR1 has 640 hp versus 470 hp for the GT2 car, a big power difference. However, the GT2 car was faster at every point on the track, sometimes by as much a 10 mph. How did it do this... significantly lighter weight, way more cornering power, probably about equal brakes. This is to say nothing bad about the ZR1, in fact, of all the stock showroom cars (M3, 911, Ferarri, Jag), the ZR1 was closest to its respective GT2 racing version, however it remains a good illustration of the limits of "engine power focus" as a sole parameter of performance.
I think great performance means a great balance of forward acceleration, braking, and cornering. You are only as fast as your weakest link allows. The vette packs tremendous perfomance per dollar in all 3 categories, largely because they have kept the weight of the car down, have more powerful engines than their competitors, have improved the brakes over previous older generations, and because of their neutral balance and great cornering abilities.
Of course, the most important performance factor is the driver, and here is where my biggest limitation lies
Since I'm on a caffeine rant, allow me one other point. While Reliability is not strictly a performance metric, it is important and related. Obviously, if you car is in the shop, or in the pits with steam coming out from the hood, your performance stinks and a Honda Civic could whup you in a race. As a rule of thumb, most performance mods decrease reliability, most particularly engine mods. Of course, there are always exceptions, but this is mostly true. In terms of Reliability, I give the C5 an "A" grade and the C6 a "B-". The C5 can take an incredible amount of abuse and keep ticking. The C6s have shown less durability on the road course for a variety of reasons that are well documented on this forum. Now, I"ll go out on a limb even further, I think the Corvette formula of "high performance per dollar" comes at the relative expense of reliability. Its not that the vettes are unreliable, I just think they may be less reliable than other more expensive brands (Porsche 911 for instance). Of course, the 911 costs a lot more money for less performance, but I think this is one of the the reasons why. In a sense, this is not surprising, as you push a car faster and faster with more power and cornering ability, it is more prone to breaking down at the limits. This is especially true when you push performance limits and minimize the cost of parts, as Corvette has done. My C5 has 90K miles on it and has been absolutely punished on the road courses and the street without any major unexpected mechanical issues. Having said that, the engine is pretty much stock, which I think explains part of it. I would not feel as confident doing that with my C6 Z06, but maybe I'm just paranoid about it. (OK, here come the flames, I know some will disagree). Performance, Price, Reliability..... pick the 2 you want, you can't have all 3.
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Verdad Gallardo
8th Gear
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Racine WI
I would really like to thank redZ06bri for the reality check. There is nothing like just plain experience. I hope lot's of people read your information and realize the value of your logic.
I've had my 05 Z51 for almost a year now and I think it's the best car I've ever owned ( over 50 cars and 17 bikes). I usually make some performance changes to fit my style. I've done some scca stuff, sport bikes, motocross, and a some design work. Some how I started getting side tracked with a lot of Corvette straight line stuff, found here and elsewhere, (nothing wrong with it just not for me), but my heart has always been with, accelerate, brake, right, left, do it again, only smoother and faster.
I do have a question; is there a secret to faster clutch / shifting with the C6? or is it that you need to just use the torque and forget about power shifting.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
I've had my 05 Z51 for almost a year now and I think it's the best car I've ever owned ( over 50 cars and 17 bikes). I usually make some performance changes to fit my style. I've done some scca stuff, sport bikes, motocross, and a some design work. Some how I started getting side tracked with a lot of Corvette straight line stuff, found here and elsewhere, (nothing wrong with it just not for me), but my heart has always been with, accelerate, brake, right, left, do it again, only smoother and faster.
I do have a question; is there a secret to faster clutch / shifting with the C6? or is it that you need to just use the torque and forget about power shifting.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10
I would really like to thank redZ06bri for the reality check. There is nothing like just plain experience. I hope lot's of people read your information and realize the value of your logic.
I've had my 05 Z51 for almost a year now and I think it's the best car I've ever owned ( over 50 cars and 17 bikes). I usually make some performance changes to fit my style. I've done some scca stuff, sport bikes, motocross, and a some design work. Some how I started getting side tracked with a lot of Corvette straight line stuff, found here and elsewhere, (nothing wrong with it just not for me), but my heart has always been with, accelerate, brake, right, left, do it again, only smoother and faster.
I do have a question; is there a secret to faster clutch / shifting with the C6? or is it that you need to just use the torque and forget about power shifting.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
I've had my 05 Z51 for almost a year now and I think it's the best car I've ever owned ( over 50 cars and 17 bikes). I usually make some performance changes to fit my style. I've done some scca stuff, sport bikes, motocross, and a some design work. Some how I started getting side tracked with a lot of Corvette straight line stuff, found here and elsewhere, (nothing wrong with it just not for me), but my heart has always been with, accelerate, brake, right, left, do it again, only smoother and faster.
I do have a question; is there a secret to faster clutch / shifting with the C6? or is it that you need to just use the torque and forget about power shifting.
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
You got it right, smoother and faster ! That is what it is all about. I'm no guru or great driver, just a guy with a lot of HPDE experience over the years, a C5 and a C6, and have read a few books. I do recommend the book "Going Faster" by the Skip Barber Racing School. It is the bible of road racing.
