5.0 Mustang vs LS2 Vette vs LS3 Vette
01-03-2011, 09:09 AM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
5.0 Mustang vs LS2 Vette vs LS3 Vette
Hey guys....
Since I've defected back to the Ford camp in a 2011 5.0 automatic, I thought you guys would find this interesting.
I have a cai, tune and Flowmaster axleback.
5.0 Mustang vs LS2 Vette vs LS3 Vette
I have owned all 3 and was interested in a comparison.
I ran two of my LS2 Vettes at the track, the automatic went 12.57@110 (1.92 60') with a Magnaflow catback and the manual ran a 12.55@115.85 (2.02 60') with a cai and Corsa catback.
I never ran my ls3 automatic, but it felt much faster than either ls2 & forget about my C6 Z06, that was insane.
Anyways....
I spent a couple of hours gathering dyno #s and track times for all 3 in stock configurations and here is what I found after averaging them out:
LS2 Vette - weight 3250 - 400hp
auto - 339rwhp (15% loss) - 12.6@112.5
manual - 349rwhp (13% loss) - 12.5@113.4
LS3 Vette - weight 3250 - 430hp-436hp w/ factory NPP exhaust (avg 433hp)
auto - 376rwhp (13% loss) - 12.1@116.2
manual - 389rwhp (10% loss) - 12.2@117
5.0 Mustang - weight 3650 - 412hp
auto - 359rwhp (13% loss) - 12.7@112.5
manual - 375rwhp (9% loss) - 12.7@111.7
5.0 Mustang with a tune or tune and cai
auto - 12.2@114.3 - 377rwhp (tune only) - 389rwhp (tune and cai)
manual - 12.4@112.6
Mustang #s were hard to come by and I tried to use only runs on stock tires.
All the Vette runs were on stock tires and completely factory stock down to the air filter.
I did not get dyno #s for the manual tranny with a tune, if people post them I will add it.
Keep in mind, the 5.0 is at a 400lb weight disadvantage to a c6 Vette, so we will need about 35rwhp to keep up just due to weight.
As for the LS2 - we have the rwhp covered stock for stock by 20rwhp auto and 26rwhp manual, but we need 35rwhp to cover the weight.
As you can see we should be off by 0.1-0.2:
auto Vette 12.6@112.5 beats the 5.0 12.7@112.5
manual Vette 12.5@113.4 beats the 5.0 12.7@111.7
The LS3 is an animal, the auto ls3 has us covered by 16rwhp + 35rwhp weight = 51rwhp and the manual has us covered by 14rwhp + 35rwhp weight = 49rwhp.
We should be off by 0.5-0.6 and it shows.
auto Vette 12.1@116.2 beats 5.0 12.7@112.5
manual Vette 12.2@117 beats 5.0 12.7@111.7
The tuned 5.0 evens things up with 377rwhp auto which equals the LS3 and the cai and tuned auto 389rwhp gets us a 13rwhp advantage.
However the 35rwhp due to weight still hurts us and we end up giving away 22rwhp auto vs auto.
Results for the auto LS3 vs a tuned 5.0
LS3 12.1@116.2 to 5.0 12.2@114.2
You can see the 20rwhp in the trap speed, but only 0.1 difference in et.
I think after more times come in for the 5.0s at sea level tracks and with more track experience, the LS3 Vette vs the tuned and cai 5.0 will be a drivers race.
I think the 5.0 with one or two more minor mods will even it up or pull out a slight advantage.
I think maybe a midpipe with or without headers might do it.
Don't rub in the fact I didn't compare any tuned LS3s
See what happens when I have a couple of days off.
Since I've defected back to the Ford camp in a 2011 5.0 automatic, I thought you guys would find this interesting.
I have a cai, tune and Flowmaster axleback.
5.0 Mustang vs LS2 Vette vs LS3 Vette
I have owned all 3 and was interested in a comparison.
I ran two of my LS2 Vettes at the track, the automatic went 12.57@110 (1.92 60') with a Magnaflow catback and the manual ran a 12.55@115.85 (2.02 60') with a cai and Corsa catback.
I never ran my ls3 automatic, but it felt much faster than either ls2 & forget about my C6 Z06, that was insane.
Anyways....
I spent a couple of hours gathering dyno #s and track times for all 3 in stock configurations and here is what I found after averaging them out:
LS2 Vette - weight 3250 - 400hp
auto - 339rwhp (15% loss) - 12.6@112.5
manual - 349rwhp (13% loss) - 12.5@113.4
LS3 Vette - weight 3250 - 430hp-436hp w/ factory NPP exhaust (avg 433hp)
auto - 376rwhp (13% loss) - 12.1@116.2
manual - 389rwhp (10% loss) - 12.2@117
5.0 Mustang - weight 3650 - 412hp
auto - 359rwhp (13% loss) - 12.7@112.5
manual - 375rwhp (9% loss) - 12.7@111.7
5.0 Mustang with a tune or tune and cai
auto - 12.2@114.3 - 377rwhp (tune only) - 389rwhp (tune and cai)
manual - 12.4@112.6
Mustang #s were hard to come by and I tried to use only runs on stock tires.
All the Vette runs were on stock tires and completely factory stock down to the air filter.
I did not get dyno #s for the manual tranny with a tune, if people post them I will add it.
Keep in mind, the 5.0 is at a 400lb weight disadvantage to a c6 Vette, so we will need about 35rwhp to keep up just due to weight.
As for the LS2 - we have the rwhp covered stock for stock by 20rwhp auto and 26rwhp manual, but we need 35rwhp to cover the weight.
As you can see we should be off by 0.1-0.2:
auto Vette 12.6@112.5 beats the 5.0 12.7@112.5
manual Vette 12.5@113.4 beats the 5.0 12.7@111.7
The LS3 is an animal, the auto ls3 has us covered by 16rwhp + 35rwhp weight = 51rwhp and the manual has us covered by 14rwhp + 35rwhp weight = 49rwhp.
We should be off by 0.5-0.6 and it shows.
auto Vette 12.1@116.2 beats 5.0 12.7@112.5
manual Vette 12.2@117 beats 5.0 12.7@111.7
The tuned 5.0 evens things up with 377rwhp auto which equals the LS3 and the cai and tuned auto 389rwhp gets us a 13rwhp advantage.
However the 35rwhp due to weight still hurts us and we end up giving away 22rwhp auto vs auto.
Results for the auto LS3 vs a tuned 5.0
LS3 12.1@116.2 to 5.0 12.2@114.2
You can see the 20rwhp in the trap speed, but only 0.1 difference in et.
I think after more times come in for the 5.0s at sea level tracks and with more track experience, the LS3 Vette vs the tuned and cai 5.0 will be a drivers race.
I think the 5.0 with one or two more minor mods will even it up or pull out a slight advantage.
I think maybe a midpipe with or without headers might do it.
Don't rub in the fact I didn't compare any tuned LS3s
See what happens when I have a couple of days off.
01-03-2011, 11:20 AM
#6
4th Gear
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: Newnan GA
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Thanks for the great post!
Your comparison is very timely. I've been trying to figure out what car to buy to replace my 1991 Corvette with close to 240k miles on it. I approach this as though it may be the last car I purchase for myself (I tend to keep them a while), so I want to do it right.
Looking past the pure numbers, which car would you rather own? I have one kid and MAY have another in the future (which is the only reason I'm considering other vehicles). I have driven both the 2010 Camaro 2SS and the 2011 (and 2010) Mustang GT. I like the exterior and power of both, but the visibility and Interior of the Camaro (since that's all that can be seen from the driver's seat) are a bit of a turn-off.
I've even looked at BMW 335i or older M3, Porsche 911, Infinity G37 and Lexus IS 350, but for various reasons, I want to stay American.
I've been looking back to the C6 Corvettes more recently with a heavy lean toward an LS3 (or maybe even an LS7 if I can afford one). I would prefer a Corvette, but wouldn't mind having a rear seat. A Mustang or Camaro would need at a minimum CAI, Mufflers, Tune and lowering springs. A C6 would need almost nothing (though I would probably do the Air Cleaner and possibly mufflers anyway).
The bottom line is that you seem to be uniquely qualified to give me your overall opinion. If you could only have one for years to come, which would it be?
Drew
767 Pilot
Your comparison is very timely. I've been trying to figure out what car to buy to replace my 1991 Corvette with close to 240k miles on it. I approach this as though it may be the last car I purchase for myself (I tend to keep them a while), so I want to do it right.
Looking past the pure numbers, which car would you rather own? I have one kid and MAY have another in the future (which is the only reason I'm considering other vehicles). I have driven both the 2010 Camaro 2SS and the 2011 (and 2010) Mustang GT. I like the exterior and power of both, but the visibility and Interior of the Camaro (since that's all that can be seen from the driver's seat) are a bit of a turn-off.
I've even looked at BMW 335i or older M3, Porsche 911, Infinity G37 and Lexus IS 350, but for various reasons, I want to stay American.
I've been looking back to the C6 Corvettes more recently with a heavy lean toward an LS3 (or maybe even an LS7 if I can afford one). I would prefer a Corvette, but wouldn't mind having a rear seat. A Mustang or Camaro would need at a minimum CAI, Mufflers, Tune and lowering springs. A C6 would need almost nothing (though I would probably do the Air Cleaner and possibly mufflers anyway).
The bottom line is that you seem to be uniquely qualified to give me your overall opinion. If you could only have one for years to come, which would it be?
Drew
767 Pilot
01-03-2011, 12:00 PM
#7
Drifting
Too bad the Camaro is such a pig if it was 3400 lbs it would kill the Mustang for way less $$$ than the LS3 vette. Ford did a good job with the new Mustang but I won't be selling my C6 GS any time soon to buy one. I'll be running 10's with a small cam, headers, ans a stall 
01-03-2011, 02:23 PM
#8
Team Owner
I don't know about all of those numbers above...what I do know is that we have bone stock LS2s running 12.2s in the 1/4 mile and bone stock LS3s going 11.7/11.8s.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
01-03-2011, 02:35 PM
#9
Team Owner
I don't know about all of those numbers above...what I do know is that we have bone stock LS2s running 12.2s in the 1/4 mile and bone stock LS3s going 11.7/11.8s.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
verfied them to be stock and watched them run their times. They were auto's, so no driver error.
01-03-2011, 03:53 PM
#11
Team Owner
I can almost assure you that it's not 12.4s.
And I'm not exactly sure what that means as there is PLENTY of room for error when driving an automatic. Less than there is with a manual of course, but room for error nonetheless.
This has been proven by drivers who weigh even less than I do still going slower than me in my automatic at the same track on the same day.
01-03-2011, 05:07 PM
#12
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks for the great post!
Your comparison is very timely. I've been trying to figure out what car to buy to replace my 1991 Corvette with close to 240k miles on it. I approach this as though it may be the last car I purchase for myself (I tend to keep them a while), so I want to do it right.
Looking past the pure numbers, which car would you rather own? I have one kid and MAY have another in the future (which is the only reason I'm considering other vehicles). I have driven both the 2010 Camaro 2SS and the 2011 (and 2010) Mustang GT. I like the exterior and power of both, but the visibility and Interior of the Camaro (since that's all that can be seen from the driver's seat) are a bit of a turn-off.
I've even looked at BMW 335i or older M3, Porsche 911, Infinity G37 and Lexus IS 350, but for various reasons, I want to stay American.
I've been looking back to the C6 Corvettes more recently with a heavy lean toward an LS3 (or maybe even an LS7 if I can afford one). I would prefer a Corvette, but wouldn't mind having a rear seat. A Mustang or Camaro would need at a minimum CAI, Mufflers, Tune and lowering springs. A C6 would need almost nothing (though I would probably do the Air Cleaner and possibly mufflers anyway).
The bottom line is that you seem to be uniquely qualified to give me your overall opinion. If you could only have one for years to come, which would it be?
Drew
767 Pilot
Your comparison is very timely. I've been trying to figure out what car to buy to replace my 1991 Corvette with close to 240k miles on it. I approach this as though it may be the last car I purchase for myself (I tend to keep them a while), so I want to do it right.
Looking past the pure numbers, which car would you rather own? I have one kid and MAY have another in the future (which is the only reason I'm considering other vehicles). I have driven both the 2010 Camaro 2SS and the 2011 (and 2010) Mustang GT. I like the exterior and power of both, but the visibility and Interior of the Camaro (since that's all that can be seen from the driver's seat) are a bit of a turn-off.
I've even looked at BMW 335i or older M3, Porsche 911, Infinity G37 and Lexus IS 350, but for various reasons, I want to stay American.
I've been looking back to the C6 Corvettes more recently with a heavy lean toward an LS3 (or maybe even an LS7 if I can afford one). I would prefer a Corvette, but wouldn't mind having a rear seat. A Mustang or Camaro would need at a minimum CAI, Mufflers, Tune and lowering springs. A C6 would need almost nothing (though I would probably do the Air Cleaner and possibly mufflers anyway).
The bottom line is that you seem to be uniquely qualified to give me your overall opinion. If you could only have one for years to come, which would it be?
Drew
767 Pilot
Too bad the Camaro is such a pig if it was 3400 lbs it would kill the Mustang for way less $$$ than the LS3 vette. Ford did a good job with the new Mustang but I won't be selling my C6 GS any time soon to buy one. I'll be running 10's with a small cam, headers, ans a stall
The young lady from VMP tuning ran a mid 10 at 135 with her 5.0 automatic and Roush blower.
I don't know about all of those numbers above...what I do know is that we have bone stock LS2s running 12.2s in the 1/4 mile and bone stock LS3s going 11.7/11.8s.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
That means all those great times (11.7, 11.8, 12.2
the C6s ran in -DAs are the only ones figured in, where alot of the Mustang times are from the summer in 90 degree heat down south and out west.The fastest BONE stock 5.0 automatic has went 12.3@114.5 with a high 1.8 or low 1.9 60'
Some have trapped 115+.
A bone stock manual went 12.5@114.2 and just by bolting on Sticky tires he ran 12.1@114.
With just a cai and tune or just a tune on street radials numerous 5.0 automatics have run 12.2@114+.
These times will plummet as more cars get in to more hands at good tracks with good DAs.
Mark, remember, in not as great weather your 12.2 car ran a 12.48@112 when I ran my 12.57@110 in my C6 LS2 Vert A4/3.15.
It is a great time to own Vettes and Stangs isn't it???
01-03-2011, 05:47 PM
#13
Team Owner
I know a few automatic 5.0s with barely a few bolt ons have gone right into the 11s as well.
I've been considering getting one but just don't have the space unless I get rid of something (and I just love my C6 and Z28 too much to do that LOL).
Well that was probably less about the air/DA differences and more about the low miles (my car had only 800 miles on it when it went 12.4) along with my total inexperience with racing a Corvette, especially one with the then very new 6L80 trans, it was my very first time ever at the track with it.
And I do believe you were actually there with your Cobra that day in March, not the Vette. But yes it was around that same time that you also ran the 12.5 in the Vette though.
Yes it is!
01-03-2011, 06:04 PM
#14
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Wow, one has gone 12.3s already, that's awesome.
I know a few automatic 5.0s with barely a few bolt ons have gone right into the 11s as well.
I've been considering getting one but just don't have the space unless I get rid of something (and I just love my C6 and Z28 too much to do that LOL).
Well that was probably less about the air/DA differences and more about the low miles (my car had only 800 miles on it when it went 12.4) along with my total inexperience with racing a Corvette, especially one with the then very new 6L80 trans, it was my very first time ever at the track with it.
And I do believe you were actually there with your Cobra that day in March, not the Vette. But yes it was around that same time that you also ran the 12.5 in the Vette though.
Yes it is!
I know a few automatic 5.0s with barely a few bolt ons have gone right into the 11s as well.
I've been considering getting one but just don't have the space unless I get rid of something (and I just love my C6 and Z28 too much to do that LOL).
Well that was probably less about the air/DA differences and more about the low miles (my car had only 800 miles on it when it went 12.4) along with my total inexperience with racing a Corvette, especially one with the then very new 6L80 trans, it was my very first time ever at the track with it.
And I do believe you were actually there with your Cobra that day in March, not the Vette. But yes it was around that same time that you also ran the 12.5 in the Vette though.
Yes it is!
Was it my Red Cobra?
I am pretty sure it was the C6, I am getting old
Your C6 was the strongest running stock C6 LS2 I have ever seen.
Yellow cars are always extra fast.
I still have my sense of humor!!!
01-03-2011, 07:56 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
I don't know about all of those numbers above...what I do know is that we have bone stock LS2s running 12.2s in the 1/4 mile and bone stock LS3s going 11.7/11.8s.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
As far as I know the quickest bone stock 2011 Mustang GT is still in the 12.4 second range (it's my belief that we will possibly see one going 12.3s in bone stock trim eventually).
Once a vehicle is modified all bets are off.
I like the new Mustang 5.0s (and the new Camaro SS and Challenger V8s as well), impressive cars for sure.
01-03-2011, 08:00 PM
#16
Race Director
I don't know about your numbers. His may be valid as well as yours. Different tracks diffferent results. Bone stock Ls-3's run 12.50 at 115 at my track. I have watched several,
verfied them to be stock and watched them run their times. They were auto's, so no driver error.
verfied them to be stock and watched them run their times. They were auto's, so no driver error.
01-03-2011, 08:09 PM
#17
Safety Car
Thread Starter
You have to ease in the throttle at launch and since you are not shifting, you have to really pay attention if the car is getting out of shape.
With an automatic, if you pedal out to much when it gets loose it shifts in to the next higher gear and blows the run.
I have to say, I always felt more in control of my manual tranny cars.
01-03-2011, 08:23 PM
#18
Instructor
I had four 5.0s, two of which were supercharged. I really considered getting one, but would have to get rid of the Vette and that aint happening. I ran 12.7 @114 with a 2.1 60. When Mickey Thompson comes out with the 19 inch dr to fit the stock rim, I think times will drop 4-5 tenths. Keep in mind the Mustang has a rear geared toward drag racing. I am adding heads and cam to my LS2 and I just feel modifications beyond bolt ons, i.e headers, exhaust, cai and tune will limit the 5.0, unless you bolt on a blower. When I say limit, I am referring to power gained through heads, cam, etc. N/A. I know there will be cams and heads available for this car, but its going to be steep. Yes Vet parts can be expensive, But compared to other cars it competes with, I find the prices reasonable. I know the 11 Stang is nice, but if I wanted to be king, I would just buy a used GT500 for the same price, pully it and throw some slicks on the car and run low 11s all day @120-125. I just love the Vett, targa top etc. just my two cents
01-03-2011, 08:59 PM
#19
Team Owner
I just feel modifications beyond bolt ons, i.e headers, exhaust, cai and tune will limit the 5.0, unless you bolt on a blower. When I say limit, I am referring to power gained through heads, cam, etc. N/A. I know there will be cams and heads available for this car, but its going to be steep. Yes Vet parts can be expensive, But compared to other cars it competes with, I find the prices reasonable.
