brake bleeding
Thread Starter
Speedy
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,109
Likes: 931
From: Tn
2024 C8 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Excellent!!! Sounds like you'll have a great system!!!
I use a Motive Power Bleeder with a GM cap adapter like others have mentioned.
It's designed to put fluid into the bottle, but I think many/most of us just use it as a pressure source. You could probably build your own out of a pump-up bug-spray or fertilizer-spray tank, a pressure gauge, a length of tubing, and cap that will fit the clutch m/c.
Bob
I use a Motive Power Bleeder with a GM cap adapter like others have mentioned.
It's designed to put fluid into the bottle, but I think many/most of us just use it as a pressure source. You could probably build your own out of a pump-up bug-spray or fertilizer-spray tank, a pressure gauge, a length of tubing, and cap that will fit the clutch m/c.
Bob
Racer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 252
Likes: 2
Conventional bleeding gets the air out, but takes a little longer and requires more people.
Power bleeding is quicker, but also forces moisture into your new, 'dry' brake fluid -- unless using the much more expensive power bleeders with an internal diaphragm to separate the brake fluid from atmospheric air. Many people claim to use power bleeders with success, which is fine. But I won't use them.
I've been around professional race teams for over 20 years and have never seen a pressure bleeder used at the track or in the race shop. Granted, the teams have people available to do it manually (it takes about 3-4 minutes with 6 people). They also cannot afford to use anything but the best fluid as dry as was packed in nitrogen and sealed from the chemical plant. While they change fluid regularly, we tend to keep in street cars too long. Brake fluid should be changed every two years at the maximum, more often if in higher humidity climates and still using OE rubber brake lines. Forcing atmospheric moisture into fresh brake fluid will shorten up those intervals.
Chris
Power bleeding is quicker, but also forces moisture into your new, 'dry' brake fluid -- unless using the much more expensive power bleeders with an internal diaphragm to separate the brake fluid from atmospheric air. Many people claim to use power bleeders with success, which is fine. But I won't use them.
I've been around professional race teams for over 20 years and have never seen a pressure bleeder used at the track or in the race shop. Granted, the teams have people available to do it manually (it takes about 3-4 minutes with 6 people). They also cannot afford to use anything but the best fluid as dry as was packed in nitrogen and sealed from the chemical plant. While they change fluid regularly, we tend to keep in street cars too long. Brake fluid should be changed every two years at the maximum, more often if in higher humidity climates and still using OE rubber brake lines. Forcing atmospheric moisture into fresh brake fluid will shorten up those intervals.
Chris
Thread Starter
Speedy
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,109
Likes: 931
From: Tn
2024 C8 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Conventional bleeding gets the air out, but takes a little longer and requires more people.
Power bleeding is quicker, but also forces moisture into your new, 'dry' brake fluid -- unless using the much more expensive power bleeders with an internal diaphragm to separate the brake fluid from atmospheric air. Many people claim to use power bleeders with success, which is fine. But I won't use them.
I've been around professional race teams for over 20 years and have never seen a pressure bleeder used at the track or in the race shop. Granted, the teams have people available to do it manually (it takes about 3-4 minutes with 6 people). They also cannot afford to use anything but the best fluid as dry as was packed in nitrogen and sealed from the chemical plant. While they change fluid regularly, we tend to keep in street cars too long. Brake fluid should be changed every two years at the maximum, more often if in higher humidity climates and still using OE rubber brake lines. Forcing atmospheric moisture into fresh brake fluid will shorten up those intervals.
Chris
Power bleeding is quicker, but also forces moisture into your new, 'dry' brake fluid -- unless using the much more expensive power bleeders with an internal diaphragm to separate the brake fluid from atmospheric air. Many people claim to use power bleeders with success, which is fine. But I won't use them.
I've been around professional race teams for over 20 years and have never seen a pressure bleeder used at the track or in the race shop. Granted, the teams have people available to do it manually (it takes about 3-4 minutes with 6 people). They also cannot afford to use anything but the best fluid as dry as was packed in nitrogen and sealed from the chemical plant. While they change fluid regularly, we tend to keep in street cars too long. Brake fluid should be changed every two years at the maximum, more often if in higher humidity climates and still using OE rubber brake lines. Forcing atmospheric moisture into fresh brake fluid will shorten up those intervals.
Chris
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 853
From: Daytona Beach FL
Actually, I've seen a lot of teams using a Motive bleeder at the track.
You can move the fluid through the system with less than 10 psi and, considering that I just do HPDE's and do plenty of flushing and bleeding for the amount of track time I do, I'm not concerned about moisture from the ambient air being a problem in my Motul RBF 600.
If you're really worried about it, there are pressure bleeding setups that have a diaphragm in them so the air pressure pushes on the diapghragm and the diaphragm pushes on the fluid.
Here's a fer-instance of the rather expensive diaphragm type:
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...BRK-G300A.html
Forum member David Farmer uses bottled nitrogen - commercially available nitrogen is virtually moisture free from the processing. He has a GM brake m/c cap attached to a regulator so that completely dry and inert nitrogen won't introduce any additional moisture into the brake fluid.
So.....if you're really so **** about moisture getting into your brake fluid, there are other methods available.
Bob
Thread Starter
Speedy
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,109
Likes: 931
From: Tn
2024 C8 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I don't think dessicate in the tank would help.
Actually, I've seen a lot of teams using a Motive bleeder at the track.
You can move the fluid through the system with less than 10 psi and, considering that I just do HPDE's and do plenty of flushing and bleeding for the amount of track time I do, I'm not concerned about moisture from the ambient air being a problem in my Motul RBF 600.
If you're really worried about it, there are pressure bleeding setups that have a diaphragm in them so the air pressure pushes on the diapghragm and the diaphragm pushes on the fluid.
Here's a fer-instance of the rather expensive diaphragm type:
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...BRK-G300A.html
Forum member David Farmer uses bottled nitrogen - commercially available nitrogen is virtually moisture free from the processing. He has a GM brake m/c cap attached to a regulator so that completely dry and inert nitrogen won't introduce any additional moisture into the brake fluid.
So.....if you're really so **** about moisture getting into your brake fluid, there are other methods available.
Bob
Actually, I've seen a lot of teams using a Motive bleeder at the track.
You can move the fluid through the system with less than 10 psi and, considering that I just do HPDE's and do plenty of flushing and bleeding for the amount of track time I do, I'm not concerned about moisture from the ambient air being a problem in my Motul RBF 600.
If you're really worried about it, there are pressure bleeding setups that have a diaphragm in them so the air pressure pushes on the diapghragm and the diaphragm pushes on the fluid.
Here's a fer-instance of the rather expensive diaphragm type:
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...BRK-G300A.html
Forum member David Farmer uses bottled nitrogen - commercially available nitrogen is virtually moisture free from the processing. He has a GM brake m/c cap attached to a regulator so that completely dry and inert nitrogen won't introduce any additional moisture into the brake fluid.
So.....if you're really so **** about moisture getting into your brake fluid, there are other methods available.
Bob
Racer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 252
Likes: 2
Chris
Racer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 252
Likes: 2
You can move the fluid through the system with less than 10 psi and, considering that I just do HPDE's and do plenty of flushing and bleeding for the amount of track time I do, I'm not concerned about moisture from the ambient air being a problem in my Motul RBF 600.
If you're really worried about it, there are pressure bleeding setups that have a diaphragm in them so the air pressure pushes on the diapghragm and the diaphragm pushes on the fluid.
Here's a fer-instance of the rather expensive diaphragm type:
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...BRK-G300A.html
If you're really worried about it, there are pressure bleeding setups that have a diaphragm in them so the air pressure pushes on the diapghragm and the diaphragm pushes on the fluid.
Here's a fer-instance of the rather expensive diaphragm type:
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool...BRK-G300A.html
If we are not that worried about getting moisture and dissolved air into our brake fluid, we should probably not be spending the extra money on the better fluids, such as RBF600 and the like. Moisture is the biggest reason fluid will degrade from its dry boiling point toward its wet boiling point, which is why I generally recommend against the lower cost pressure bleeders. It's kinda like making meatloaf out of USDA Choice filet mignon.
Chris
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 853
From: Daytona Beach FL
- DOT 3 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point (measured with 0% water by volume) of 401F and a minimum wet boiling point (measured with 3.7% water by volume) of 284F.
- Motul RBF 600 has a dry boiling point of 593F and a wet boiling point of 420F.
Motul RBF 600 has a wet boiling point higher than the dry boiling required of DOT 3 fluid!!!!!!!!
So......I'll stick with the RBF 600 for my track days and use my Motive Power Bleeder to flush before every event and do quick bleeds during the event.
If I were to turn my car into a track-only car, especially if doing W2W racing, I wouldn't think of running anything but Castrol SRF:
- CASTROL SRF Dry boil pt 590°F Wet boil pt 518°F $69.99/33.8oz
Many guys will put in SRF and just run it all season long - it's that good!!
But.....with SRF costing about 2-1/2 times as much as RBF 600, I'll just stick with what I've been using for a number of years with great success with racing brake pads and R-compound tires.
Bob
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Thread Starter
Speedy
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,109
Likes: 931
From: Tn
2024 C8 of the Year Finalist - Modified
I know you are aware of all the info below, but for others reading the thread here are some specs that may be of interest:
Motul RBF 600 has a wet boiling point higher than the dry boiling required of DOT 3 fluid!!!!!!!!
So......I'll stick with the RBF 600 for my track days and use my Motive Power Bleeder to flush before every event and do quick bleeds during the event.
If I were to turn my car into a track-only car, especially if doing W2W racing, I wouldn't think of running anything but Castrol SRF:
Many guys will put in SRF and just run it all season long - it's that good!!
But.....with SRF costing about 2-1/2 times as much as RBF 600, I'll just stick with what I've been using for a number of years with great success with racing brake pads and R-compound tires.
Bob
- DOT 3 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point (measured with 0% water by volume) of 401F and a minimum wet boiling point (measured with 3.7% water by volume) of 284F.
- Motul RBF 600 has a dry boiling point of 593F and a wet boiling point of 420F.
Motul RBF 600 has a wet boiling point higher than the dry boiling required of DOT 3 fluid!!!!!!!!
So......I'll stick with the RBF 600 for my track days and use my Motive Power Bleeder to flush before every event and do quick bleeds during the event.
If I were to turn my car into a track-only car, especially if doing W2W racing, I wouldn't think of running anything but Castrol SRF:
- CASTROL SRF Dry boil pt 590°F Wet boil pt 518°F $69.99/33.8oz
Many guys will put in SRF and just run it all season long - it's that good!!
But.....with SRF costing about 2-1/2 times as much as RBF 600, I'll just stick with what I've been using for a number of years with great success with racing brake pads and R-compound tires.
Bob
Racer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: AL
What did you do? Did you remove the calipers from the car - i.e. disconnect them from the hoses that connect them to the brake lines???
If so, and you got them mixed up, that could be your problem.
The soft pedal you describe after multiple bleedings sounds like the problem many have had after removing and reinstalling the calipers. I've read here on the Forum a number of times that people have had issues getting a firm pedal after getting calipers powdercoated or rebuilt, and it's because they put them on the wrong side of the car.
If the calipers are put on the wrong side of the car and the bleed valves are on the bottom of the caliper you'll never get the pedal firm.
The bleed valves must be on the top of the calipers.
Bob
If so, and you got them mixed up, that could be your problem.
The soft pedal you describe after multiple bleedings sounds like the problem many have had after removing and reinstalling the calipers. I've read here on the Forum a number of times that people have had issues getting a firm pedal after getting calipers powdercoated or rebuilt, and it's because they put them on the wrong side of the car.
If the calipers are put on the wrong side of the car and the bleed valves are on the bottom of the caliper you'll never get the pedal firm.
The bleed valves must be on the top of the calipers.
Bob
Mark
