Synthetic oil
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 35
From: Kalifornia
Synthetic oil
Hey guys, I'm looking into getting a C6 GS, and the mom has a 2010 Camaro SS. The dealer claims they are both designed for synthetic oil. I've always thought synthetic oil was a BS upsell, but if there really is a difference and the LS3's really do benefit from it, of course I will do it.
What's the conventional wisdom on this?
What's the conventional wisdom on this?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 82,175
Likes: 1,319
From: McKinney TX
St. Jude Donor '21-'22-'23-'24
New LS2s and LS3s from GM come with synthetic oil in them, just like the new Camaros do. I've had at least one of each.
Both autos use a calculation to tell you when to change the oil, but it's based on the use of synthetic oil.
Both autos use a calculation to tell you when to change the oil, but it's based on the use of synthetic oil.
Former Vendor
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 68
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Syntetic oil is required on these new high performance motors. The tolerances are tighter than the motors of old leading to an oil that needs to be able to handle the pressures and tempratures of the motor. Conventional oil will break down quicker than syntetic oil and that is important when you have main bearing clearances of .0018". you can run conventional oil if you want, but dont be suprised WHEN your motor fails.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 35
From: Kalifornia
Interesting. I was planning on using synth oil, but from an intellectual curiosity standpoint, I do like to see scientific evidence the stuff really works and isn't just a way for dealers to make more money on oil changes. 
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 128
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Has anyone used ProMa MBL-8 (Metal Based Lubricant) as an additive to their engines?
I've used this in a number of 4 and 6 cylinders, and its worked wonders to engine noise (so its lub'd up nicely), parts wear is noticeably less, but never in an LSx engine.
I've used this in a number of 4 and 6 cylinders, and its worked wonders to engine noise (so its lub'd up nicely), parts wear is noticeably less, but never in an LSx engine.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2011
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As in I've never used it in an LSx engine. I would assume it would work the same, but the main difference between previous engines and the LS3/7 etc, is they were all DOHC and Turbos ( single and twin ).
Lifter noise was noticeably gone. What was a tappet sound would disappear to a nice little hum, and the engine internals were extremely clean by comparison to an engine it wasn't put in.
Lifter noise was noticeably gone. What was a tappet sound would disappear to a nice little hum, and the engine internals were extremely clean by comparison to an engine it wasn't put in.
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,037
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From: Central MO
I run synthetic in every engine I own. The way I figure it, I can change my own and run premium oil for the same price as dino oil at a quick lube shop. I tend to not trade vehicles often so I'm interested in long term reliability.
I'm also a member on the Enclave forum (wife's car). The 3.6 DI VVT is very tough on oil. Pennzoil Platinum seems to currently be leading the Blackstone UOA results and it's certified to the new Dexos spec. Plain Mobil 1 has been less than impressive and Mobil 1 Extended performance has done well.
I'm also a member on the Enclave forum (wife's car). The 3.6 DI VVT is very tough on oil. Pennzoil Platinum seems to currently be leading the Blackstone UOA results and it's certified to the new Dexos spec. Plain Mobil 1 has been less than impressive and Mobil 1 Extended performance has done well.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 35
From: Kalifornia
Just curious, as a Jeep and SUV owner who can just scoot under his car at will, what does the average Vette DIY guy use to get drain plug access? Those drive-up ramp thingys? The dealers want a fortune for changing synthoil, and I'm not sure I want the average ham-handed Jiffy monkey getting anywhere near such a car. Might have to break down and start doing my own oil changes again.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Syntetic oil is required on these new high performance motors. The tolerances are tighter than the motors of old leading to an oil that needs to be able to handle the pressures and tempratures of the motor. Conventional oil will break down quicker than syntetic oil and that is important when you have main bearing clearances of .0018". you can run conventional oil if you want, but dont be suprised WHEN your motor fails.
Compare that to a LS7 that has main bearing clearances of Production.....0009"-.0021" and In Service.....0009"-.0025" and rod clearance of production...0009-.0025" and In Service ....0009"-.0030"
While the improved machining techniques and improved measurement equipment reduces the tolerance range, the fact remains that the 56 year old Chevy V8 was designed to have a minimum clearance of .0008" compared to the modern LS7's .0009" on the mains, and a minimum clearance of .0007" compared to the modern LS7's minimum clearance of .0009" on the rods.
And that was based on 56 year old oil technology also.
If you want to compare another modern high performance engine to the Corvette's engine, then how about the LSa in the cadillac CTS-V. The owners manual does not specify that synthetic oil be used, only dexos, and an oil that meets the dexos requirements can be a non synthetic oil. I bet if you would take the time to compare the bearing clearances in a LS3 and a LSa you will find them to be the same, and the LSa sees higher bearing loads.
Last edited by JoesC5; Jun 16, 2011 at 08:33 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Just curious, as a Jeep and SUV owner who can just scoot under his car at will, what does the average Vette DIY guy use to get drain plug access? Those drive-up ramp thingys? The dealers want a fortune for changing synthoil, and I'm not sure I want the average ham-handed Jiffy monkey getting anywhere near such a car. Might have to break down and start doing my own oil changes again.
Last edited by JoesC5; Jun 16, 2011 at 08:34 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,037
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From: Central MO
Just curious, as a Jeep and SUV owner who can just scoot under his car at will, what does the average Vette DIY guy use to get drain plug access? Those drive-up ramp thingys? The dealers want a fortune for changing synthoil, and I'm not sure I want the average ham-handed Jiffy monkey getting anywhere near such a car. Might have to break down and start doing my own oil changes again.
I have also jacked up each front side individually and put jack stands under the suspension.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,759
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From: AZ
St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
But that website I referenced is just plum full of info.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
The vast majority of dexos oils are not synthetic.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
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From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
let's put it this way: if you and your wife have new Chev hi po products and don't use synthetic oil, and something breaks in the engine, guess what happens to your engine part of the powertrain warranty? right: kaput.
it is required, even if some might think it's an "upsell." and for your reference library, Corvette has been putting in synthetic oil since 1992, and required as such, from the "factory fill." it's not something new they just cooked up after 20 model years of using it.
it is required, even if some might think it's an "upsell." and for your reference library, Corvette has been putting in synthetic oil since 1992, and required as such, from the "factory fill." it's not something new they just cooked up after 20 model years of using it.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
let's put it this way: if you and your wife have new Chev hi po products and don't use synthetic oil, and something breaks in the engine, guess what happens to your engine part of the powertrain warranty? right: kaput.
it is required, even if some might think it's an "upsell." and for your reference library, Corvette has been putting in synthetic oil since 1992, and required as such, from the "factory fill." it's not something new they just cooked up after 20 model years of using it.
it is required, even if some might think it's an "upsell." and for your reference library, Corvette has been putting in synthetic oil since 1992, and required as such, from the "factory fill." it's not something new they just cooked up after 20 model years of using it.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 76
From: Marshall, Missouri
Just curious, as a Jeep and SUV owner who can just scoot under his car at will, what does the average Vette DIY guy use to get drain plug access? Those drive-up ramp thingys? The dealers want a fortune for changing synthoil, and I'm not sure I want the average ham-handed Jiffy monkey getting anywhere near such a car. Might have to break down and start doing my own oil changes again.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 76
From: Marshall, Missouri
I agree with AORoads. The way I read my '08 owner's manual, it clearly states that failure to use the proper GM factory spec engine oil (synthetic) for the Corvette, could result in warranty claim denial.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 35
From: Kalifornia
I just use a low profile jack on the driver (filter) side, raise the car a few inches, slide the drain pan under it, take the pan plug out and the old filter off. Then I lower the car, let it drain for half an hour or so. Then I jack it up a few inches, reach in and spin on the new filter, put the plug back in the pan. Then lower the vehicle and pour in the Mobile 1. Start the car, check for leaks, and I'm done. The filter and the pan plug are extremely easy to get to. I think the C6 is the easiest car to change oil in that I have owned.
Time to get the hands dirty!Oh, and one of my pet peeves is the concept of a company "voiding a warranty" that gets thrown around the Net. Warranties are contracts, and one party cannot just "void" them. That's not even a real legal word in that context (void contracts are illegal contracts, not enforceable under any circumstances). Obviously GM can refuse to honor something, but that's what legal threats and lawsuits are for (trust me, I've written the letters - always use the term, "bad faith" - and they get results). If GM failed to honor a warranty for a car I paid ~$60K over oil, you can damn well bet they'd have the mother of all legal challenges over it (plus I'd like a cite that they have ever even tried this).
I've already said I'm going to use the synthoil. Seems like there's a reason they recommend it, so OK. I'm a Vette NooB and most of you likely know mechanical stuff better than I. But I teach contracts, so let's leave the lessons on warranty to another sub-forum, K?
IAALBNYLSDNROTALABIDAL (I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer So Do Not Rely On This As Legal Advice Because I Drink A Lot).
And remember, lawyers are like cops - they suck until you need one.
