Cam too big? Broken lifter and valves touched pistons...
03-29-2012, 01:10 PM
#41
Former Vendor
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Wow... This is never a good thing to hear !
Chris, even though we did not build the car for you, if you have ANY questions please give us a call. We had done a street tune last year for you, it is a shame to hear of your motor going away due to broken parts. I hope that it was not a clearance issue, but this is the reason why in all of our cam packages, that Piston to Valve Clearance is checked on every installation, even if it is one of our proven cam grinds. This will alleviate any issues with a mis-ground camshaft or mis-boxed camshaft!
Let us know if we can help you in any way.
Thanks
East Coast Supercharging
Matt Sorian - Shop Manager
Chris, even though we did not build the car for you, if you have ANY questions please give us a call. We had done a street tune last year for you, it is a shame to hear of your motor going away due to broken parts. I hope that it was not a clearance issue, but this is the reason why in all of our cam packages, that Piston to Valve Clearance is checked on every installation, even if it is one of our proven cam grinds. This will alleviate any issues with a mis-ground camshaft or mis-boxed camshaft!
Let us know if we can help you in any way.
Thanks
East Coast Supercharging
Matt Sorian - Shop Manager
03-29-2012, 01:24 PM
#42
Instructor
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Lewistown MT
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The shop who did the install should make this right. Them telling you they will work with you on price for a fix is a joke. The engine practically self destructed after a few miles. Everything should be double checked when doing engine work especially for custom performance applications, when you go too long on assumptions this kind of thing eventually happens. Sorry to the OP for this mess.
03-29-2012, 03:30 PM
#43
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
As long as its ground correctly and installed correctly with the correct parts you should be fine. Mine is running awesome. I'm not sure where Chris's issue is coming from actually. Cam ground incorrectly? Install done incorrectly? Wrong springs? Who knows at this point. This is one reason I like doing my own work. Then I can only blame myself if there is a problem.
The shop who did the install should make this right. Them telling you they will work with you on price for a fix is a joke. The engine practically self destructed after a few miles. Everything should be double checked when doing engine work especially for custom performance applications, when you go too long on assumptions this kind of thing eventually happens. Sorry to the OP for this mess.
Trust me, I dont want to smear a shops name, but I sure dont want to spend all this money either so I wish I could place blame! BUT without definitive proof it was the shops fault how can I bring that fight to their front door?
Wow... This is never a good thing to hear !
Chris, even though we did not build the car for you, if you have ANY questions please give us a call. We had done a street tune last year for you, it is a shame to hear of your motor going away due to broken parts. I hope that it was not a clearance issue, but this is the reason why in all of our cam packages, that Piston to Valve Clearance is checked on every installation, even if it is one of our proven cam grinds. This will alleviate any issues with a mis-ground camshaft or mis-boxed camshaft!
Let us know if we can help you in any way.
Thanks
East Coast Supercharging
Matt Sorian - Shop Manager
Chris, even though we did not build the car for you, if you have ANY questions please give us a call. We had done a street tune last year for you, it is a shame to hear of your motor going away due to broken parts. I hope that it was not a clearance issue, but this is the reason why in all of our cam packages, that Piston to Valve Clearance is checked on every installation, even if it is one of our proven cam grinds. This will alleviate any issues with a mis-ground camshaft or mis-boxed camshaft!
Let us know if we can help you in any way.
Thanks
East Coast Supercharging
Matt Sorian - Shop Manager
03-29-2012, 03:44 PM
#44
Instructor
Member Since: Feb 2007
Location: Lewistown MT
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The shop already told you, "apparently the cam was too big" as you mentioned in one of your earlier posts. This shows they didn't check the install. Any quality shop will double check an installation and its components or it is a hack shop.
Some quotes taken from their website.
"We only deal with the highest quality vendors, and top manufacturers. From suspension and chassis to pump gas strokers and forced induction setups. We don’t use any parts we wouldn’t put on our own vehicles, and nothing that won’t make the most power.
Want to have a reliable, performance machine that you can drive on pump gas to the track and back? How about running 8s at over 150mph in your street car?"
"At Race Proven Motorsports we don’t settle for second rate work. We’ll transform your vehicle into the machine you want it to be, never sacrificing quality.
From bolt ons to full engine builds and forced induction, we’ll go every step of the way in the process of making your dreams a reality. From ordering the parts to the dyno tune after installation, we’re the one stop shop for high performance GM builds."
If they wish to abide by their statements they need to put their money where their mouth is.
Some quotes taken from their website.
"We only deal with the highest quality vendors, and top manufacturers. From suspension and chassis to pump gas strokers and forced induction setups. We don’t use any parts we wouldn’t put on our own vehicles, and nothing that won’t make the most power.
Want to have a reliable, performance machine that you can drive on pump gas to the track and back? How about running 8s at over 150mph in your street car?"
"At Race Proven Motorsports we don’t settle for second rate work. We’ll transform your vehicle into the machine you want it to be, never sacrificing quality.
From bolt ons to full engine builds and forced induction, we’ll go every step of the way in the process of making your dreams a reality. From ordering the parts to the dyno tune after installation, we’re the one stop shop for high performance GM builds."
If they wish to abide by their statements they need to put their money where their mouth is.
03-29-2012, 03:53 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2011
Location: Tampa FL (formerly Justinjor)
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get for your Chris. EVEN if you ordered a cam that was WAY too big and it was YOUR fault-it's the responsibility of the installer or in this case, the shop to say "hey wait a second, this is way too close, it doesn't fit, we need to flycut." Did they even measure the PTV clearance? Something doesn't add up here.
03-29-2012, 04:42 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get for your Chris. EVEN if you ordered a cam that was WAY too big and it was YOUR fault-it's the responsibility of the installer or in this case, the shop to say "hey wait a second, this is way too close, it doesn't fit, we need to flycut." Did they even measure the PTV clearance? Something doesn't add up here.
03-29-2012, 04:44 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2011
Location: Tampa FL (formerly Justinjor)
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
I doubt they did, they would have to pull the heads off to get the measurement. that would bring the install price way up. I think that is why most use a proven cam, some one else did the homework. that will not save you from and bad grind or miss- boxed cam. makes me nervous, i damn sure dont want to pull the heads to do a cam swap!
Second of all, this cam has been used in others cars as well without issue, which returns us back to the original issue. . .something doesn't add up.
This is why I was so adamant that my cam be checked on an independent cam doctor prior to installation.
03-29-2012, 04:52 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
that is almost as much work as pulling the heads, you cant just put it at TDC and check the dial till the valve hits the piston. the valves chase the piston up and down, you would have to check each intake and exhaust valve several degrees before and after TDC. as for checking just one??? only three of his hit. i agree it does not add up, something fishy about the install. cam DR is a good idea, just to verify, not sure who would have one?
03-29-2012, 05:06 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
The shop already told you, "apparently the cam was too big" as you mentioned in one of your earlier posts. This shows they didn't check the install. Any quality shop will double check an installation and its components or it is a hack shop.
Some quotes taken from their website.
"We only deal with the highest quality vendors, and top manufacturers. From suspension and chassis to pump gas strokers and forced induction setups. We don’t use any parts we wouldn’t put on our own vehicles, and nothing that won’t make the most power.
Want to have a reliable, performance machine that you can drive on pump gas to the track and back? How about running 8s at over 150mph in your street car?"
"At Race Proven Motorsports we don’t settle for second rate work. We’ll transform your vehicle into the machine you want it to be, never sacrificing quality.
From bolt ons to full engine builds and forced induction, we’ll go every step of the way in the process of making your dreams a reality. From ordering the parts to the dyno tune after installation, we’re the one stop shop for high performance GM builds."
If they wish to abide by their statements they need to put their money where their mouth is.
Some quotes taken from their website.
"We only deal with the highest quality vendors, and top manufacturers. From suspension and chassis to pump gas strokers and forced induction setups. We don’t use any parts we wouldn’t put on our own vehicles, and nothing that won’t make the most power.
Want to have a reliable, performance machine that you can drive on pump gas to the track and back? How about running 8s at over 150mph in your street car?"
"At Race Proven Motorsports we don’t settle for second rate work. We’ll transform your vehicle into the machine you want it to be, never sacrificing quality.
From bolt ons to full engine builds and forced induction, we’ll go every step of the way in the process of making your dreams a reality. From ordering the parts to the dyno tune after installation, we’re the one stop shop for high performance GM builds."
If they wish to abide by their statements they need to put their money where their mouth is.
The more I think about this, the more annoyed I get for your Chris. EVEN if you ordered a cam that was WAY too big and it was YOUR fault-it's the responsibility of the installer or in this case, the shop to say "hey wait a second, this is way too close, it doesn't fit, we need to flycut." Did they even measure the PTV clearance? Something doesn't add up here.
03-29-2012, 05:38 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
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You would think being a sponsor here they wouldn't hesitate to make it right. Lot of Corvette owners read these forums and it wont be hard to eventualy figure out who they are. It's in their best interest to make it right since it could cost much more in lost business.
03-29-2012, 06:24 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
03-29-2012, 06:58 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
How often have we seen this kind of thread where someone takes a car in for modifications, and later it blows up? The response usually is to try and make the installer pay, but I've never seen that happen successfully. I've even seen Lingenfelter not take responsibility. In there defense, there are too many variables that could cause a failure without it being the installer's fault.
Now, if it would have failed on start up, that would be different. But when you have someone modify your car, you really need to get in writing what the shop will do in the event of a failure.
Now, if it would have failed on start up, that would be different. But when you have someone modify your car, you really need to get in writing what the shop will do in the event of a failure.
03-29-2012, 07:29 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
This is very unfortunate that this happened. Its also VERY hard to say exactly why it happened. I never said the cam was too big i said it could have been. The reason i think the valves touched the pistons is from the lifter roller coming apart and bouncing around inside the engine. The front lifter where it hit the piston the most is still stuck in the block. We cant get it out from the top. We found half of the roller on the other side of the engine on top of a rocker. I think maybe a piece got under the lifter/pushrod and caused the valve to touch the piston. Its very hard to say exactly what happened but there was a lot of pieces of the lifter inside the engine.
These problems do happen with engines. Its just part of modding a car. This obviously isn't our first cam job. We probably do 2-3 a week and we have been in business for over 7 years. I 100% do appreciate Chris being level about the situation. Its almost impossible to point fingers in situations like this. The lifter could have just collapsed and from Chris revving it and taking video and driving it back home it could have completely failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJ9wTTAFFQ
Im not saying this is what happened but it very well could have been. VERY rarely will you see anything about my shop posted on here because i try to take care of any problems that happen and still make the customer walk out happy. I am going to do my best with Chris to get his car fixed. I appreciate him cooperating with us and being understanding that stuff like this does happen and there is never a way to figure out exactly what happened. We will get it fixed and i can assure you Chris will walk out happy. We all know that its terrible to get a new mod and then something break shortly after but in reality it does happen.
When a cam isn't installed correctly they usually have problems starting and throw cam sensor codes. This was not the case on this car and i can assure everyone that it was installed. We ordered the cam exactly how Pat G. speced it. He is a knowledgeable person and i wouldn't think that the cam would be the cause.
These problems do happen with engines. Its just part of modding a car. This obviously isn't our first cam job. We probably do 2-3 a week and we have been in business for over 7 years. I 100% do appreciate Chris being level about the situation. Its almost impossible to point fingers in situations like this. The lifter could have just collapsed and from Chris revving it and taking video and driving it back home it could have completely failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJ9wTTAFFQ
Im not saying this is what happened but it very well could have been. VERY rarely will you see anything about my shop posted on here because i try to take care of any problems that happen and still make the customer walk out happy. I am going to do my best with Chris to get his car fixed. I appreciate him cooperating with us and being understanding that stuff like this does happen and there is never a way to figure out exactly what happened. We will get it fixed and i can assure you Chris will walk out happy. We all know that its terrible to get a new mod and then something break shortly after but in reality it does happen.
When a cam isn't installed correctly they usually have problems starting and throw cam sensor codes. This was not the case on this car and i can assure everyone that it was installed. We ordered the cam exactly how Pat G. speced it. He is a knowledgeable person and i wouldn't think that the cam would be the cause.
03-29-2012, 08:03 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
This is very unfortunate that this happened. Its also VERY hard to say exactly why it happened. I never said the cam was too big i said it could have been. The reason i think the valves touched the pistons is from the lifter roller coming apart and bouncing around inside the engine. The front lifter where it hit the piston the most is still stuck in the block. We cant get it out from the top. We found half of the roller on the other side of the engine on top of a rocker. I think maybe a piece got under the lifter/pushrod and caused the valve to touch the piston. Its very hard to say exactly what happened but there was a lot of pieces of the lifter inside the engine.
These problems do happen with engines. Its just part of modding a car. This obviously isn't our first cam job. We probably do 2-3 a week and we have been in business for over 7 years. I 100% do appreciate Chris being level about the situation. Its almost impossible to point fingers in situations like this. The lifter could have just collapsed and from Chris revving it and taking video and driving it back home it could have completely failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJ9wTTAFFQ
Im not saying this is what happened but it very well could have been. VERY rarely will you see anything about my shop posted on here because i try to take care of any problems that happen and still make the customer walk out happy. I am going to do my best with Chris to get his car fixed. I appreciate him cooperating with us and being understanding that stuff like this does happen and there is never a way to figure out exactly what happened. We will get it fixed and i can assure you Chris will walk out happy. We all know that its terrible to get a new mod and then something break shortly after but in reality it does happen.
When a cam isn't installed correctly they usually have problems starting and throw cam sensor codes. This was not the case on this car and i can assure everyone that it was installed. We ordered the cam exactly how Pat G. speced it. He is a knowledgeable person and i wouldn't think that the cam would be the cause.
These problems do happen with engines. Its just part of modding a car. This obviously isn't our first cam job. We probably do 2-3 a week and we have been in business for over 7 years. I 100% do appreciate Chris being level about the situation. Its almost impossible to point fingers in situations like this. The lifter could have just collapsed and from Chris revving it and taking video and driving it back home it could have completely failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJ9wTTAFFQ
Im not saying this is what happened but it very well could have been. VERY rarely will you see anything about my shop posted on here because i try to take care of any problems that happen and still make the customer walk out happy. I am going to do my best with Chris to get his car fixed. I appreciate him cooperating with us and being understanding that stuff like this does happen and there is never a way to figure out exactly what happened. We will get it fixed and i can assure you Chris will walk out happy. We all know that its terrible to get a new mod and then something break shortly after but in reality it does happen.
When a cam isn't installed correctly they usually have problems starting and throw cam sensor codes. This was not the case on this car and i can assure everyone that it was installed. We ordered the cam exactly how Pat G. speced it. He is a knowledgeable person and i wouldn't think that the cam would be the cause.
03-29-2012, 08:45 PM
#58
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Pat G did reply to me... He agree'd that the original cam spec'd was larger than the one I went with from him. Also that his cam was the largest he recommends for safe PtoV... But not sure what could have cause this either.
This is very unfortunate that this happened. Its also VERY hard to say exactly why it happened. I never said the cam was too big i said it could have been. The reason i think the valves touched the pistons is from the lifter roller coming apart and bouncing around inside the engine. The front lifter where it hit the piston the most is still stuck in the block. We cant get it out from the top. We found half of the roller on the other side of the engine on top of a rocker. I think maybe a piece got under the lifter/pushrod and caused the valve to touch the piston. Its very hard to say exactly what happened but there was a lot of pieces of the lifter inside the engine.
These problems do happen with engines. Its just part of modding a car. This obviously isn't our first cam job. We probably do 2-3 a week and we have been in business for over 7 years. I 100% do appreciate Chris being level about the situation. Its almost impossible to point fingers in situations like this. The lifter could have just collapsed and from Chris revving it and taking video and driving it back home it could have completely failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJ9wTTAFFQ
Im not saying this is what happened but it very well could have been. VERY rarely will you see anything about my shop posted on here because i try to take care of any problems that happen and still make the customer walk out happy. I am going to do my best with Chris to get his car fixed. I appreciate him cooperating with us and being understanding that stuff like this does happen and there is never a way to figure out exactly what happened. We will get it fixed and i can assure you Chris will walk out happy. We all know that its terrible to get a new mod and then something break shortly after but in reality it does happen.
When a cam isn't installed correctly they usually have problems starting and throw cam sensor codes. This was not the case on this car and i can assure everyone that it was installed. We ordered the cam exactly how Pat G. speced it. He is a knowledgeable person and i wouldn't think that the cam would be the cause.
These problems do happen with engines. Its just part of modding a car. This obviously isn't our first cam job. We probably do 2-3 a week and we have been in business for over 7 years. I 100% do appreciate Chris being level about the situation. Its almost impossible to point fingers in situations like this. The lifter could have just collapsed and from Chris revving it and taking video and driving it back home it could have completely failed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjJ9wTTAFFQ
Im not saying this is what happened but it very well could have been. VERY rarely will you see anything about my shop posted on here because i try to take care of any problems that happen and still make the customer walk out happy. I am going to do my best with Chris to get his car fixed. I appreciate him cooperating with us and being understanding that stuff like this does happen and there is never a way to figure out exactly what happened. We will get it fixed and i can assure you Chris will walk out happy. We all know that its terrible to get a new mod and then something break shortly after but in reality it does happen.
When a cam isn't installed correctly they usually have problems starting and throw cam sensor codes. This was not the case on this car and i can assure everyone that it was installed. We ordered the cam exactly how Pat G. speced it. He is a knowledgeable person and i wouldn't think that the cam would be the cause.
Im sure it was ordered as Pat spec'd it Fran, curious if its actually cut as such... which is why im gonna see about getting it on a cam dr after its out!
Fran, can you check out that block and email me back whether the lifter bore is cracked?
03-29-2012, 11:06 PM
#59
Racer
Member Since: Sep 2011
Location: South Hampton NJ
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03-30-2012, 04:36 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I actually know what ya mean Dennis, and have watched threads disappear. That's why I've tried to keep it factual while trying to figure this out, so I ask the mods to leave it open and let's see what happens!