C6 Autocross Setup - Help
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 468
Likes: 67
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
C6 Autocross Setup - Help
i have a C6 with Magnetic Ride Control and an automatic. Has anyone been able to set such a car up to compete against Z51 cars with 6 speeds? I put a Z06 front sway bar on (which definitely gave better bite in front), and Hawk High Performance pads, as well as Kumho XS and more camber all around, but can't post equivalent times. I run sport mode and the nannies off. Thanks much.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,243
Likes: 562
From: Margaritaville Daytona
Jeff,
Doubt if I can help but I have the same issue. Although I have not changed the sways yet I am thinking about it. I also have a C6 with MRC but it's a std 6 spd. Next season I expect my competition to be Z51 folks and need to prep also. Why did you go with the Z06 sway vice a Z51 bar? and why only in the front?
Mike
Doubt if I can help but I have the same issue. Although I have not changed the sways yet I am thinking about it. I also have a C6 with MRC but it's a std 6 spd. Next season I expect my competition to be Z51 folks and need to prep also. Why did you go with the Z06 sway vice a Z51 bar? and why only in the front?
Mike
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 468
Likes: 67
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Mike, I was plagued with a vicous rear end snap. It came on QUICK and I couldn't stop it once it started. I knew a guy with Z06 bars that were available, so........ Ended up going back to the stock rear bar and found that was my best set up. I should also mention the Kumho tires sent from Tire Rack were dated 2011 in the front, but 2008 and 2009 in the rear. You could feel the hardness difference front vs back. Tire Rack would only offer a 25% discount on my "next" tire purchase. Not much help for this year. Will replace them for 2013. Jeff
Pro
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 613
Likes: 10
From: Magnolia Texas
Hey Jeff... Haven't been to track yet with new setup but I went from stock Z51 setup on my '06 to Pfadt front and rear Johnny O'Connell stage I with matched shocks. Running 325/30/19 rear and 265/35/18 front. Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Ride and bite on street is noticably better. Expect same improvement over OEM Z51 with BFG KDW II's on track.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,592
Likes: 187
From: Hudson WI
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I would call Pfadt and ask them what to do. Mix and match sways bars can be an issue if you don't know what you are doing. Trust me I tried. I could have saved a ton of money if I had just done it right in the first place.
I bought the Pfadt kit with coilovers, alignment kit and bars.
I bought the Pfadt kit with coilovers, alignment kit and bars.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh Nc
Hey Jeff It sounds like you already have a pretty good setup- I think the problem may be the older tires. Kumho makes great tires but if they are 5 years old I think the rubber might have got hard over time,and of course this alone would be hard to overcome the Z51's. It could also be why your rear snapped out with the rear sway.
Beside the tires a great way to help with handling is just lower the car down on the stock bolts. This will make the car look better too. Only problem is clearance issues on the street but this depends on your area. But it is free. and everyone likes free.
The biggest bang for the buck on your car I think will be the a transmission Tune. It really wakes up the shifts. And at the track when your shifting all the time this alone would shave off a good bit a time. You can get this done Via handheld tuner like the Intune.
Beside the tires a great way to help with handling is just lower the car down on the stock bolts. This will make the car look better too. Only problem is clearance issues on the street but this depends on your area. But it is free. and everyone likes free.
The biggest bang for the buck on your car I think will be the a transmission Tune. It really wakes up the shifts. And at the track when your shifting all the time this alone would shave off a good bit a time. You can get this done Via handheld tuner like the Intune.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,436
Likes: 4
From: Everett Wa
Been there, done that, got a manual. With the auto you are giving up HP and that is the problem. While you can make it up with skill at the end of the day equal skilled drivers will be better in the manual.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh Nc
Here is a list of the Top Ten stock 1/4 runs -
Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.718 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2586)
11.806 @ 118.82 - Gmrulz - 08 A6 Z51, NPP - (3478)
11.974 @ 116.98 - Proney - 08 M6 Z51, NPP - (4652)
12.058 @ 122.05 - AndrewZPSU - 10 A6 NPP - (5051)
12.100 @ 115.19 - Odin - 09 A6 2.73 npp - (4325)
12.102 @ 117.60 - Dingrao - 08 A6 - (3561)
12.127 @ 116.59 - Pettvette - 08 A6 - (4278)
12.159 @ 115.59 - Old Goat - 09 A6 2.73 - (3708)
12.167 @ 117.15 - DarkOctane - 08 A6 NPP - (6310)
12.167 @ 116.54 - Vinsane112 - 08 A6 2.73 - (2740)
Please notice that 8 of the 10 are A6's
Hp is not the problem.
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,436
Likes: 4
From: Everett Wa
I don't want to get into the auto vs manual thing but what your stating is wrong. Maybe back a few years this was true but not anymore.
Here is a list of the Top Ten stock 1/4 runs -
Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.718 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2586)
11.806 @ 118.82 - Gmrulz - 08 A6 Z51, NPP - (3478)
11.974 @ 116.98 - Proney - 08 M6 Z51, NPP - (4652)
12.058 @ 122.05 - AndrewZPSU - 10 A6 NPP - (5051)
12.100 @ 115.19 - Odin - 09 A6 2.73 npp - (4325)
12.102 @ 117.60 - Dingrao - 08 A6 - (3561)
12.127 @ 116.59 - Pettvette - 08 A6 - (4278)
12.159 @ 115.59 - Old Goat - 09 A6 2.73 - (3708)
12.167 @ 117.15 - DarkOctane - 08 A6 NPP - (6310)
12.167 @ 116.54 - Vinsane112 - 08 A6 2.73 - (2740)
Please notice that 8 of the 10 are A6's
Hp is not the problem.
Here is a list of the Top Ten stock 1/4 runs -
Showroom Stock LS3 (2008 - ????)
11.718 @ 119.94 - AndrewZPSU - 08 M6 - (2586)
11.806 @ 118.82 - Gmrulz - 08 A6 Z51, NPP - (3478)
11.974 @ 116.98 - Proney - 08 M6 Z51, NPP - (4652)
12.058 @ 122.05 - AndrewZPSU - 10 A6 NPP - (5051)
12.100 @ 115.19 - Odin - 09 A6 2.73 npp - (4325)
12.102 @ 117.60 - Dingrao - 08 A6 - (3561)
12.127 @ 116.59 - Pettvette - 08 A6 - (4278)
12.159 @ 115.59 - Old Goat - 09 A6 2.73 - (3708)
12.167 @ 117.15 - DarkOctane - 08 A6 NPP - (6310)
12.167 @ 116.54 - Vinsane112 - 08 A6 2.73 - (2740)
Please notice that 8 of the 10 are A6's
Hp is not the problem.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,724
Likes: 9
i have a C6 with Magnetic Ride Control and an automatic. Has anyone been able to set such a car up to compete against Z51 cars with 6 speeds? I put a Z06 front sway bar on (which definitely gave better bite in front), and Hawk High Performance pads, as well as Kumho XS and more camber all around, but can't post equivalent times. I run sport mode and the nannies off. Thanks much.
The biggest bang for your buck is with sway bars. They really will help eliminate some of the roll and wallowing that you're feeling. Secondly finding a way to get more spring under the car with coilovers would also be a great benefit in platform stability, and helping to eliminate dive under braking.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,436
Likes: 4
From: Everett Wa
Specifically what is wrong with the F55 setup, forget the auto for the time being, a good driver can overcome some of it.
Even with upgraded swaybars, Z51 or Z06 the F55 suffers from excessive brake dive. This upsets the car something fierce and leads to time killer problems, with under or oversteer depending on the situation. Also picking up the throttle can be a problem because of weight transfer. Pickup to early leads to understeer, to hard snappy oversteer.
Experience:
1st year - 06 auto, Base, Kuhmo XS tires, best I could do was 2 seconds slower than slowest Z51
2nd year - 08 manual, F55 , Kuhmo XS tires, times on par with Z51, slower than stock C5 Z06
3rd year - 08 manual, Toyo R888 tires, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alignment, beating all stock car setups, Z51 and Z06
4th year - 08 Manual, Toyo R888 tires, Coil Overs, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alingment, beating all cars except for raced prepped and I am competitive with them. An upgrade to Hoosiers will get me there.
We only run vette against vette.
Even with upgraded swaybars, Z51 or Z06 the F55 suffers from excessive brake dive. This upsets the car something fierce and leads to time killer problems, with under or oversteer depending on the situation. Also picking up the throttle can be a problem because of weight transfer. Pickup to early leads to understeer, to hard snappy oversteer.
Experience:
1st year - 06 auto, Base, Kuhmo XS tires, best I could do was 2 seconds slower than slowest Z51
2nd year - 08 manual, F55 , Kuhmo XS tires, times on par with Z51, slower than stock C5 Z06
3rd year - 08 manual, Toyo R888 tires, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alignment, beating all stock car setups, Z51 and Z06
4th year - 08 Manual, Toyo R888 tires, Coil Overs, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alingment, beating all cars except for raced prepped and I am competitive with them. An upgrade to Hoosiers will get me there.
We only run vette against vette.
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
So if you were looking to buy a Vette specifically for autocross and lapping would getting the F55 setup be worth pursuing or would one be better off going afermarket?
Car would be used for general road going use as well.
Car would be used for general road going use as well.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 468
Likes: 67
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Hey Jeff... Haven't been to track yet with new setup but I went from stock Z51 setup on my '06 to Pfadt front and rear Johnny O'Connell stage I with matched shocks. Running 325/30/19 rear and 265/35/18 front. Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Ride and bite on street is noticably better. Expect same improvement over OEM Z51 with BFG KDW II's on track.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 468
Likes: 67
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
I would call Pfadt and ask them what to do. Mix and match sways bars can be an issue if you don't know what you are doing. Trust me I tried. I could have saved a ton of money if I had just done it right in the first place.
I bought the Pfadt kit with coilovers, alignment kit and bars.
I bought the Pfadt kit with coilovers, alignment kit and bars.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 468
Likes: 67
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Hey Jeff It sounds like you already have a pretty good setup- I think the problem may be the older tires. Kumho makes great tires but if they are 5 years old I think the rubber might have got hard over time,and of course this alone would be hard to overcome the Z51's. It could also be why your rear snapped out with the rear sway.
Beside the tires a great way to help with handling is just lower the car down on the stock bolts. This will make the car look better too. Only problem is clearance issues on the street but this depends on your area. But it is free. and everyone likes free.
The biggest bang for the buck on your car I think will be the a transmission Tune. It really wakes up the shifts. And at the track when your shifting all the time this alone would shave off a good bit a time. You can get this done Via handheld tuner like the Intune.
Beside the tires a great way to help with handling is just lower the car down on the stock bolts. This will make the car look better too. Only problem is clearance issues on the street but this depends on your area. But it is free. and everyone likes free.
The biggest bang for the buck on your car I think will be the a transmission Tune. It really wakes up the shifts. And at the track when your shifting all the time this alone would shave off a good bit a time. You can get this done Via handheld tuner like the Intune.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,436
Likes: 4
From: Everett Wa
Z51 or Grandsport would be the best setup and upgrade to coilovers.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,243
Likes: 562
From: Margaritaville Daytona
Specifically what is wrong with the F55 setup, forget the auto for the time being, a good driver can overcome some of it.
Even with upgraded swaybars, Z51 or Z06 the F55 suffers from excessive brake dive. This upsets the car something fierce and leads to time killer problems, with under or oversteer depending on the situation. Also picking up the throttle can be a problem because of weight transfer. Pickup to early leads to understeer, to hard snappy oversteer.
Experience:
1st year - 06 auto, Base, Kuhmo XS tires, best I could do was 2 seconds slower than slowest Z51
2nd year - 08 manual, F55 , Kuhmo XS tires, times on par with Z51, slower than stock C5 Z06
3rd year - 08 manual, Toyo R888 tires, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alignment, beating all stock car setups, Z51 and Z06
4th year - 08 Manual, Toyo R888 tires, Coil Overs, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alingment, beating all cars except for raced prepped and I am competitive with them. An upgrade to Hoosiers will get me there.
We only run vette against vette.
Even with upgraded swaybars, Z51 or Z06 the F55 suffers from excessive brake dive. This upsets the car something fierce and leads to time killer problems, with under or oversteer depending on the situation. Also picking up the throttle can be a problem because of weight transfer. Pickup to early leads to understeer, to hard snappy oversteer.
Experience:
1st year - 06 auto, Base, Kuhmo XS tires, best I could do was 2 seconds slower than slowest Z51
2nd year - 08 manual, F55 , Kuhmo XS tires, times on par with Z51, slower than stock C5 Z06
3rd year - 08 manual, Toyo R888 tires, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alignment, beating all stock car setups, Z51 and Z06
4th year - 08 Manual, Toyo R888 tires, Coil Overs, Z51 sways, poly bushings, aggressive alingment, beating all cars except for raced prepped and I am competitive with them. An upgrade to Hoosiers will get me there.
We only run vette against vette.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,436
Likes: 4
From: Everett Wa
I am going to revise this statement. If you are not set on a C6 a C5 Z06 would be the better car. The C6 was my first Vette, IMO the best looking Vette ever made. But I also got to drive a C5 Z06 this year and stock out of the box it does many thing much better than the C6, at least in Autocross. It feels lighter and more nimble and is much easier to throw around.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 468
Likes: 67
From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Agreed. Autocrossing with a stock auto vs. a manual does add time. In addition, I've had some fun experiences when I hit the shift paddle, only to have it engage .5 seconds later in a corner......... some wild rear end step outs. Good test of reflexes.