Guys,

I need a little help understanding something before I make a decision. I am looking at either doing a Cam in my car or a whole SC kit. My problem is that I have priced out several shops to do the install on the SC...Here is what I get:

1. Shop A : A&A kit installed and tuned = $6 - $6,300 w/out tax
2. Shop B: Same kit installed and tuned: $7,800 w/out tax
3. Shop C: Same kit installed and tuned : $9,100 w/tax


I know reputation is worth something...but doesnt this seem like a huge difference....almost 3k ....

My Cam install is being quoted from a "reputable" shop as 3k installed w/supporting stuff....so for me 3 vs 6 and I may get the SC...however 3 vs 9 and its no longer an option....

Opinons on this ?...would shop A really be a bad option ?....I know you dont know the shops but they are all on this forum and I havent read any horror stories on any.... B and C are local...advantages to that...A is not but maybe 8 hrs away....driveable...

Last question : Doesnt the kit come with everythign needed...I thought a Tune would be all thats neccessary ....I have a fairly new 2011 narrow w/20k

Thanks for any input

 

Being a shop in the area I hope I can shed some light on this for you.

First be careful that all are including everything you need. Simple small things add up like fluid changes. We put an oil filter and oil change on every bill, spark plugs, wires if needed, etc. This is because we want the build to be the best it can be and not just good enough to leave. We will not do a cam swap without a oil change soon following. We want to get the assembly lube out as well as any dirt or debris that may (God forbid) fell into the motor as we pulled it apart.

They may be leaving some things off the bill too.. like sales tax! We've had to compete on a few quotes recently and when you have a $6k supercharger and one person isn't quoting tax well that's a several hundred dollar difference right there.

The next thing is the quality of work being done. Stop in and see how clean they are. This makes a big difference to me. The shop should be neat and tidy and the cars should be protected with fender covers/wrap.

Check on delivery dates. Would you rather save a few hundred dollars if its going to take you a month to get the car back?

A big one... SERVICE! You are buying a service. You want someone with good communication before and after the sale. You also want someone experienced who will sell you the best product not the best profit margin product. You know you can pop into any big box store and some monkey will be glad to sell you whatever you want. Its knowing the product and selling only the best that gets places far. Service doesn't cost... it PAYS!

Lastly the tune is an important part of the entire build. If its a wham bam thank you ma'am type deal they can afford to cut the price down. If it is a experience tuner that visits the car hot cold street and on dyno you should have to pay for it.

 

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...e-counter.html

 

PS - I'm not sure if we were one of the shops that OP was getting quotes from initially, but we would be happy to help! Shoot us an email at sales@pcmofnc.com and we can get pricing and options for you.

 

Buy the kit and install it yourself or go with shop A which seems like a good deal. Shop B and Shop C prices seem way off.

 

you are near vengeance racing....give them a call

 

Also one shop may be getting a better deal on the kit so they are able to pass that savings on to you. A trained monkey could install a supercharger kit, so really you are just paying for trust and customer service.

 

yeah I hear you on installing..but I am a gear head w/knowledge..not the wrench . I dont have the space / tools to complete.

I just want the install to go smooth and be tuned properly....I have gone to shops before that were "cheaper" and gotten bad service and to alvins point that is worth something...i dont know if its worth 2500 bucks but its worth something.

 

Give Matt @ FSP a call, I think he will be able to give you a knowledgeable install for a reasonable price range.

The prices should not be way off from each other, but keep in mind two things;
1, the install is not that difficult, but I have had abortion installs get shipped here after other shops installed a supercharger. So make sure you go to someone who has a proven record of clean installs.
Even down to the little things like having the clamps in line and hoses tie wrapped neatly, to me it makes a difference. I'm picky though..

2, Tuning, this makes all the difference in the world IMO. So if shop A can install the kit for $500 less, but you do not get as good of mileage as you should, runs rough, etc did you save any money?
What if that shop made 40-50 less RWHP then the higher priced shop? In the long run your dollar per HP gain was more expensive at the cheaper shop. Not even getting into the case of one does not have the experience to know how aggressive the car can be tuned and...


I hope that helps, feel free to call or PM me if you have any questions we can help you with.

 

Thanks Doug..I totally agree....4-500 difference and I am going with the shop w/best rep ...tuner

However as you see it was bigger then that...All the feedback has been great..ty everyone

 

Looks can be deceiving. You need to find out what each one includes. The one at 9100 are they included extra parts that the first one is not including. Are they calibrating the car on a dyno vs the first shop using a cal that comes from A&A. Are they pinning the crank and loctiting the cam bolts that type of stuff you need to know to make and educated decision. You can go the short cut and save now, but you will pay later if they are in fact taking short cuts. For a quick example, your crankshaft is not keyed from the factory, the balancer just presses on it. That is fine when it is not used for anything but the accessories it is turning, but a SC had a lot of resistance to it. So if you spin the balancer on the crank and mess up the crankshaft, the fix for that is buying another motor or having yours rebuilt. So the point is you didn't save the 3k, you spent twice that because the first shop short cut you on it. You need to get as many details as you can. Same thing about the fuel system, are they installing a boost-a-pump or installing an actual fuel pump that will flow the amount of fuel needed. Anything late 03 to now requires the entire driveline to be dropped in order to install a new fuel pump. You know how you find out when the boost-a-pump is not working. You will see engine parts laying under the car. Again you need the details to make and educated decision and not assuming that this comparison was apples to apples except for the price. I can tell you for sure we would not install a setup like that for price A. We would probably be closer to price C because we are covering all of that for you and making sure all the secondary items are up to snuff also. That way when you pick up your car it drives like it is supposed to and problem free. It is not that we personally would be making more money, that is a reflection how many more parts and time we are spending on it.

 

Well it looks like we are Shop C

I have reviewed the estimate that was prepared for you by either Kevin or Ryan. I would like to hit on a few of the high points if I may...

* The A&A Kit was priced as a tuner kit and included a FREE upgrade to a V3 SI head unit as well as FREE upgrade for the 2011 C6 ($50.00 value).. This is a total of $200.00 savings off of retail.

*The estimate includes a GM 3 Bar MAP sensor to allow us to perform a complete Speed Density COS tune.

*Our tuning includes 12 months free updates and an additional 12 months prorated update program

*Labor was actually 4 hours higher than should be and for this I apologize. I will resend your estimate to reflect this change.

*Tax was included which adds $451.08 to the total.

*With the revised labor rate you are still looking at $8802.55 installed/tuned/Tax-Title-Tag

There are two main questions that need to be answered:

Are the estimates comparable? Have the other two shops included everything that was listed on our estimate? Is the 8 hour drive worth it to save money up front? Fuel/Hotel costs associated with the trip? What happens if/when you have an issue after the install? Another 8 hour trip? Suddenly that savings is gone and now you have headaches....You have to ask yourself how a shop can offer a complete kit/install/complete tune for just over $800.00 above the price of the kit itself.. Free install with purchase of tune? $400.00 labor and $400.00 tunes? Not on my 11 C6...

Is it worth paying slightly more to build a relationship with a well respected shop that is local to you that has as much LSX experience as we do? We are one of the leading A&A installer/dealers in the country and have tons of positive feedback on both installation and tuning of these kits. Only you can answer these questions, but we hope to earn your business.

I would welcome the opportunity to review the quotes you were provided by the other shops. If we are able to match any of their pricing we will be more than happy to do so. I would also welcome the opportunity to speak with you in person or over the phone to answer any questions you might have with this install or anything else associated with your C6.

Do not hesitate to call and/or email.

Email- Ron@VengeanceRD.com
Phone-678 513 7105

Regards,

Ron Mowen
Owner, Vengeance Racing

 

Just call Matt @ FSP , I went thru the same crap that you are going thru. Thanks to Doug, he told me about Matt. Matt took the time with me that few other shops would do and he destroyed anyone else when it came to price in Fl./ Ga.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...e-counter.html

 

Thanks for the kind words guys!!! Yes I would be glad to professionally install the ECS kit, and tune it on-site. I am having a sale right now on the base ECS Kit (Which includes the upgraded self-contained oil blower compared to the other system where it is a $300 upgrade) for $6795 Turn-Key. If you want to add a blower cam package (ECS Blower cam, PRC dual valvespring package, hardened chromemoly pushrods, GM Gasket set, GM balancer bolt - Includes all installation) I can do $1595 additional! If you want to add an Alky Control kit it would be an additional $1095 installed. Just to give you an idea of pricing.

Having worked with ECS for numerous years, I know the kits quite well and the tuning hand-in-hand.

Give us a call, PM or email (Matt@floridaspeedandpower.com). I am on the road tuning & installing in Panama City this weekend so email is the best way to get to me. I can leave you my cell # also.

Thanks

Matt

 

I didnt want to name shops as that wasnt the intention of my post. You are accurate though and you were Shop C. Your team has been nothing but professional and helpful in every aspect thus far. This is a really big decision and I just want to ensure I make the right decision financially and in the best insterest of my vehicles safety/performance.

I appreciate the adjustment and I do see that their are some differences in shops quotes. Some of the shops I was speaking with were unable to foster a written quote and thus have lost my business as I do not trust them. I look forward to working with your shop Vengence racing in the future.

Ty for all your help / follow up and guidance thus far.

 

Thank you for the kind words. I had no problem posting above once I realized we had indeed provided an itemized estimate for you. As you mentioned alot of shops arent willing to do this and/or do not include all costs up front to get you in the door. We are extremely honest as we do not want any surprises that may jeopordize our business relationship.

As said above, if you have any questions/concerns do not hesitate to call me directly. We look forward to working with you no matter what you decide.

 

8800 seems REALLY high for an A&A tuner kit installed and tuned.

Many places will do it for around 6500 installed and tuned. I paid a little less than that for mine

 

It depends on what you are getting. Example if you are getting a boost-a-pump installed it obviously would be cheaper. Personally we don't install them. We install fuel pumps, so if someone is dropping the driveline out of the car to install a pump, and then pinning the crank and applying locktite to cam bolts and doing a PCM calibration on a dyno for $6500, more power to them. If someone is just bolting the A&A kit on and installing a start cal and just adjusting some WOT tables, sure you could do it for $6500 or even less. You get what you pay for though. When it is done right you should never have to retune it for the weather or come back for "adjustments" Does your stock Corvette every have to have "adjustments" between seasons?

 

All I can say is be damn sure that you pick the right shop to do the work. Go with someone who has a stellar reputation in the corvette community. Even with the best effort at research and due diligence and recommendations you can still end up with a real mess on your hands and you can be left without your car for an entirely unreasonable time. Be certain that you have someone who will stand by thier work and will correctly repair issues that they caused. I thought I had all this figured out and regrettably I did not and I am currently paying a lot of money on the back end to fix issues that never should have occurred on the front end. Good luck to you. Cheapest price sometimes means you get exactly what you paid for and then some.

 

Appreciate everyones input...I am going with shop C as they have the best rep and feedback on the boards...

I however and am just going to do the cam for now as I cannot afford the SC at any rate...dont need to put myself in debt for this...

I believe an extra 50-60 whp in my pants will subdue the speed demons for now....

Thanks all !