Tune, or not to Tune ????
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 74
From: Jacksonville Fl.
Tune, or not to Tune ????
I am getting, some Phadt long tube headers, high flow cats, a CAI and a ported TB,,,, what if I just do the bolt on's and not do the tune, what gains can in HP and torque can I expect, would the "tune" give me substantially more, or a little more? Meaning if a tune is only going to give me "a little" more hp/torque, as opposed to ton more, I might just as well leave the tune stock so I don't have any warranty issues.
I plan to do 4 or 5 HPDE's a year, so I don't need any crazy HP/Torgue, obviously more is better, however, I just bought the car, I only have 3 hundred miles on it, so I need to think long term.
I plan to do 4 or 5 HPDE's a year, so I don't need any crazy HP/Torgue, obviously more is better, however, I just bought the car, I only have 3 hundred miles on it, so I need to think long term.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 74
From: Jacksonville Fl.
What kind of numbers will I be leaving ? That's what I am trying to figure out, if we are leaving 2 or 3 HP on the table, I just assume leave the stock tune, and play it safe. I feel like, and I am by no means a tuner or a professional, the CAI, headers and exhaust have to have a better effect on the car breathing, so I am hoping with those bolt ons, getting 25 or 30 rwhp with the stock tune ???
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,436
Likes: 875
From: Bay Area CA
What kind of numbers will I be leaving ? That's what I am trying to figure out, if we are leaving 2 or 3 HP on the table, I just assume leave the stock tune, and play it safe. I feel like, and I am by no means a tuner or a professional, the CAI, headers and exhaust have to have a better effect on the car breathing, so I am hoping with those bolt ons, getting 25 or 30 rwhp with the stock tune ???
Former Vendor
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Cumming Georgia
We are in Cumming, GA (a bit of a drive from you, but we have multiple customers who drive quite a bit further for our services) and would love to help you out. Give us a call or send us an e-mail, and we would be more than happy to discuss your goals and offer some solutions for your needs.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 195
From: On the east coast we drive until we die
It's not just power it's also drivability and efficiency. Playing on the safe side means getting it tuned. Especially if you're going to be running the car hard at HPDEs.
And keep in mind, the headers and CAI alone might void any drivetrain warranty repairs. It's not solely dependent on a tune.
And keep in mind, the headers and CAI alone might void any drivetrain warranty repairs. It's not solely dependent on a tune.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 74
From: Jacksonville Fl.
It's not just power it's also drivability and efficiency. Playing on the safe side means getting it tuned. Especially if you're going to be running the car hard at HPDEs.
And keep in mind, the headers and CAI alone might void any drivetrain warranty repairs. It's not solely dependent on a tune.
And keep in mind, the headers and CAI alone might void any drivetrain warranty repairs. It's not solely dependent on a tune.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,587
Likes: 70
From: Memphis Tn
Not trying to argue, trying to converse, I was told by a very good friend of mine, who is a GM technician, that says the headers and CAI wouldn't void a warranty claim, but the very first things he says GM makes him do, is check the tune, and if anything has been done tune wise, its an automatic deny
good luck!
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
Likes: 2,596
From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Not trying to argue, trying to converse, I was told by a very good friend of mine, who is a GM technician, that says the headers and CAI wouldn't void a warranty claim, but the very first things he says GM makes him do, is check the tune, and if anything has been done tune wise, its an automatic deny
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 195
From: On the east coast we drive until we die
Not trying to argue, trying to converse, I was told by a very good friend of mine, who is a GM technician, that says the headers and CAI wouldn't void a warranty claim, but the very first things he says GM makes him do, is check the tune, and if anything has been done tune wise, its an automatic deny
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Given your concerns, you should avoid the tune. You'll still get great gains from the headers. I'd skip the ported TB as it adds nothing and if not done properly can throw codes down the line. The TB is a finicky item. CAI is a great mod and should be the first mod as the stock tune backs out 12 degrees of timing at 150 IAT and you see that even on a 70 degree day until the car gets moving with the stock air cleaner setup.
You'll leave probably 15-20 rwhp on the table but for HPDE work that's not so necessary. And the factory tune is very safe, it's very rich and timing is conservative.
I've been a self tuner for 7 years now and so I know what gets changed in a tune....if that gives you a frame of reference for my comments.
Now if you want max gains you will need a tune, and a good tuner will give you a very safe tune that won't cause any engine damage. You will feel the difference with a tune.
You'll leave probably 15-20 rwhp on the table but for HPDE work that's not so necessary. And the factory tune is very safe, it's very rich and timing is conservative.
I've been a self tuner for 7 years now and so I know what gets changed in a tune....if that gives you a frame of reference for my comments.
Now if you want max gains you will need a tune, and a good tuner will give you a very safe tune that won't cause any engine damage. You will feel the difference with a tune.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 195
From: On the east coast we drive until we die
Given your concerns, you should avoid the tune. You'll still get great gains from the headers. I'd skip the ported TB as it adds nothing and if not done properly can throw codes down the line. The TB is a finicky item. CAI is a great mod and should be the first mod as the stock tune backs out 12 degrees of timing at 150 IAT and you see that even on a 70 degree day until the car gets moving with the stock air cleaner setup.
You'll leave probably 15-20 rwhp on the table but for HPDE work that's not so necessary. And the factory tune is very safe, it's very rich and timing is conservative.
I've been a self tuner for 7 years now and so I know what gets changed in a tune....if that gives you a frame of reference for my comments.
Now if you want max gains you will need a tune, and a good tuner will give you a very safe tune that won't cause any engine damage. You will feel the difference with a tune.
You'll leave probably 15-20 rwhp on the table but for HPDE work that's not so necessary. And the factory tune is very safe, it's very rich and timing is conservative.
I've been a self tuner for 7 years now and so I know what gets changed in a tune....if that gives you a frame of reference for my comments.
Now if you want max gains you will need a tune, and a good tuner will give you a very safe tune that won't cause any engine damage. You will feel the difference with a tune.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 74
From: Jacksonville Fl.
Given your concerns, you should avoid the tune. You'll still get great gains from the headers. I'd skip the ported TB as it adds nothing and if not done properly can throw codes down the line. The TB is a finicky item. CAI is a great mod and should be the first mod as the stock tune backs out 12 degrees of timing at 150 IAT and you see that even on a 70 degree day until the car gets moving with the stock air cleaner setup.
You'll leave probably 15-20 rwhp on the table but for HPDE work that's not so necessary. And the factory tune is very safe, it's very rich and timing is conservative.
I've been a self tuner for 7 years now and so I know what gets changed in a tune....if that gives you a frame of reference for my comments.
Now if you want max gains you will need a tune, and a good tuner will give you a very safe tune that won't cause any engine damage. You will feel the difference with a tune.
You'll leave probably 15-20 rwhp on the table but for HPDE work that's not so necessary. And the factory tune is very safe, it's very rich and timing is conservative.
I've been a self tuner for 7 years now and so I know what gets changed in a tune....if that gives you a frame of reference for my comments.
Now if you want max gains you will need a tune, and a good tuner will give you a very safe tune that won't cause any engine damage. You will feel the difference with a tune.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 74
From: Jacksonville Fl.
Not trying to be argumentative, but ask your good friend at GM this question: if the engine blows WITH HEADERS but without a tune, will they allow a new/rebuilt engine claim? I'd say, it's a judgment call, not a cinch that "they," GM, will pay for it. And don't forget the operative phrase we all read on CF: you want to play, you have to be willing to pay.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,950
Likes: 264
From: St. Louis, MO
St. Jude Donor '08
Lol, That's all I wanted to know, "how much will I leave on the table, with those mods, but without a "tune"... My buddy is a very good friend, and he would do whatever he could to help me out, but he would not, nor would I ask him to jeopardize his job. And from what he tells me, when there is an issue, I am told, he HAS to pull a data stream, and take a picture of it, before he touches anything, and literally e-mails them the picture, and if its a stock tune, everything is pretty much okay, and yes he has replaced engines with headers on them under warranty, because a CAI, and headers have nothing to do with dropping a valve. So back to my original question clarified a little clearer hopefully, how much can I gain with a CAI, headers, high flow cats, "without a tune", and then all of the above "with a tune"
Frankly, upon further thought I'm going to modify my thoughts above - it's true you'll leave 15-20 rwhp by keeping stock fueling and timing, but when I do HDPE, I richen up my tune so much that it's nearly a stock tune anyway - running your car at WOT for 11 seconds is a lot different than running your car at WOT for 20 minutes at a time. Running that hard that long, you want that extra fuel cooling the cylinders and you don't want any knock so you are wise to leave timing extra conservative.
Unlike a drag race, you're not racing the clock, just having fun.
So IMHO you are good to go stock tune and headers.
BTW you will get a CEL for the headers P0430 and P0420, inefficient cat codes. But I've heard people can prevent that by using "spark plug anti-fouler" spacers which you can still buy in parts stores. Worth a shot, they are cheap. These codes are turned off in a tune BTW.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ast-heads.html