Stainless steel brake lines
06-23-2015, 09:25 PM
#3
Race Director
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson WI
Posts: 13,598
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NCM Sinkhole Donor
I have Wilwood. They came with the brakes.
Depending on the year of your car, the rears can be a real challenge. It has to do with the way they were installed at the factory.
Depending on the year of your car, the rears can be a real challenge. It has to do with the way they were installed at the factory.
06-23-2015, 09:27 PM
#4
Lets start this off the other way, and do you really need them to start with????
The SS braid brake lines have to be checked often for any cracking, and unless your rubber brake lines are really old and need to be replaced, or you are going to be high speed track racing the car for the season, most of the time, the SS brake lines are more of a PITA instead. To add here, with some SS brake lines, they can build up a static charge, and cause all kinds of wheel hub sensor trouble code problems when they discharge to the hub.
As for SS brake lines if you just must, favor the ones that do not use a banjo bolts, but threaded end that will thread into the calipers directly instead. The bango bolt is a restrictor in a sense, and it can slow the time coming off pedal that the calibers pads release from the rotors instead.
The SS braid brake lines have to be checked often for any cracking, and unless your rubber brake lines are really old and need to be replaced, or you are going to be high speed track racing the car for the season, most of the time, the SS brake lines are more of a PITA instead. To add here, with some SS brake lines, they can build up a static charge, and cause all kinds of wheel hub sensor trouble code problems when they discharge to the hub.
As for SS brake lines if you just must, favor the ones that do not use a banjo bolts, but threaded end that will thread into the calipers directly instead. The bango bolt is a restrictor in a sense, and it can slow the time coming off pedal that the calibers pads release from the rotors instead.
06-23-2015, 09:40 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks guys
To add on yes the car is 2005 and sat for years...I bought it recently with 9k miles on it...car is getting BBK upgrade and will be seeing many track and auto road days as well as getting a needed refresher of heads, cam, etc
To add on yes the car is 2005 and sat for years...I bought it recently with 9k miles on it...car is getting BBK upgrade and will be seeing many track and auto road days as well as getting a needed refresher of heads, cam, etc
06-24-2015, 12:24 PM
#6
Race Director
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Hudson WI
Posts: 13,598
Received 181 Likes
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NCM Sinkhole Donor
If you plan to add HP and run on the track, I would get the brake lines with whatever brake upgrade you install. Stop Tech, Wilwood, Brembo, etc all use different lines.
06-24-2015, 02:14 PM
#8
Team Owner
Bob, BEZ06 may chime in here, but I remember him saying that he installed SS lines in one of his C6s, either the Z06 or the ZR1 and noticed no improvement at all. He runs his cars at Daytona and said that his stock lines were fine and the SS ones were not needed.
06-24-2015, 02:55 PM
#9
Lets start this off the other way, and do you really need them to start with????
The SS braid brake lines have to be checked often for any cracking, and unless your rubber brake lines are really old and need to be replaced, or you are going to be high speed track racing the car for the season, most of the time, the SS brake lines are more of a PITA instead. To add here, with some SS brake lines, they can build up a static charge, and cause all kinds of wheel hub sensor trouble code problems when they discharge to the hub.
As for SS brake lines if you just must, favor the ones that do not use a banjo bolts, but threaded end that will thread into the calipers directly instead. The bango bolt is a restrictor in a sense, and it can slow the time coming off pedal that the calibers pads release from the rotors instead.
The SS braid brake lines have to be checked often for any cracking, and unless your rubber brake lines are really old and need to be replaced, or you are going to be high speed track racing the car for the season, most of the time, the SS brake lines are more of a PITA instead. To add here, with some SS brake lines, they can build up a static charge, and cause all kinds of wheel hub sensor trouble code problems when they discharge to the hub.
As for SS brake lines if you just must, favor the ones that do not use a banjo bolts, but threaded end that will thread into the calipers directly instead. The bango bolt is a restrictor in a sense, and it can slow the time coming off pedal that the calibers pads release from the rotors instead.
In the 25 yrs I have been building, yes building and servicing cars for competition. I have never seen properly routed and installed braided ss brake lines crack. The only failures I have seen are when the lines chafe against the suspension or stressed from improper routing.
As far as the banjo fitting thing, have you seen the inside diameter of teflon tubes these brake lines use? Trust me when I say, a banjo fitting can feed 3 lines.
Now that static thing.. Can you say forum myth. For some reason, mostly lack of proper training or experience bench mechanics put their opinions out there and people run with it because they do not know better. If enough people tell the same misinformation, it becomes credible
06-24-2015, 03:05 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
To me the SS are worth the investment over the standard rubber and banjo. I get a better connection, less "environmental" issues with SS over rubber, better craftsmanship, etc...thus why I wanted to pose the question as I did here...looks like there is more of an agreement that SS does have benefits that one can Choose to capitalize on if they wish
06-24-2015, 03:52 PM
#11
The benefit comes in initial bite, That is how fast and how much the brake pads grab. braided lines expand less so more volume gets to the caliper pistons, thus more bite.
Also less chance of debris flying under car cutting brake line.
Also less chance of debris flying under car cutting brake line.
06-25-2015, 01:14 PM
#12
I gotta say.... this one puts a smile on my face.
In the 25 yrs I have been building, yes building and servicing cars for competition. I have never seen properly routed and installed braided ss brake lines crack. The only failures I have seen are when the lines chafe against the suspension or stressed from improper routing.
As far as the banjo fitting thing, have you seen the inside diameter of teflon tubes these brake lines use? Trust me when I say, a banjo fitting can feed 3 lines.
Now that static thing.. Can you say forum myth. For some reason, mostly lack of proper training or experience bench mechanics put their opinions out there and people run with it because they do not know better. If enough people tell the same misinformation, it becomes credible
In the 25 yrs I have been building, yes building and servicing cars for competition. I have never seen properly routed and installed braided ss brake lines crack. The only failures I have seen are when the lines chafe against the suspension or stressed from improper routing.
As far as the banjo fitting thing, have you seen the inside diameter of teflon tubes these brake lines use? Trust me when I say, a banjo fitting can feed 3 lines.
Now that static thing.. Can you say forum myth. For some reason, mostly lack of proper training or experience bench mechanics put their opinions out there and people run with it because they do not know better. If enough people tell the same misinformation, it becomes credible
Coincidentally, I have a set of SS brake lines for "25" years, on my 1990 Yamaha FZR 1000. Ordered the SS lines in anticipation before the bike came from Japan back in 1989! Not a single problem on my highly modified crotch rocket during "25" years of hard braking.
That, is just one example with SS lines among many!
06-25-2015, 09:49 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
06-25-2015, 10:14 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Any opinion on Russell Performance brand? I jumped on Summit Racing and these are the two brads, Russell perf got a decent review from a 2011 GS owner.
Stoptech:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sph-950-62003
Russell Perf:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-692200
Stoptech:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sph-950-62003
Russell Perf:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-692200
06-26-2015, 08:16 PM
#18
Former Vendor
Keep in mind that most "Wilwood ss hose kits" are based upon the need for pipe thread adapters into their aluminum body calipers and are not designed for oe use. There are some that use the banjo end and are specific to a chassis and oe caliper also. Pay close attention as you shop.
Most hoses today are jacketed and thus the contamination from dust is far less than it was 25yrs ago. That's a good thing. But I'd agree that proper routing and chaffing can be an issue...that's not a hose thing, that's an installer thing.
I too have never found a banjo to be restrictive. The inside of -3AN hose is extremely small now. Somehow folks believe that fluid displacement is a bid deal. It's not. The amount of fluid moving in that hose when you touch the brakes is tiny. Someone do the calculations on piston area to volume when you displace a pad by .010"...I bet it not much more than a teaspoon.
I would agree that non banjo ends are better for racing however. Not for function but for safety- debris on track can (and seen) be picked up and wrapped up on a union causing the banjo bolt to loosen up. For that reason alone I'd probably do hard fittings- but that's just me and many do fine on bolts and washers.
The other misconception I've stated before: "DOT APPROVED"....no they aren't. They could be DOT Compliant yes. But there's no approval for hoses sold in the US to be "passed" and labeled as such. The big issue is unions. A banjo/bolt assembly is compliant, yet my desired hard adapter to AN3 Swivel (while a near industry racing standard) is not. Any 'hand made' cutter type end found on Indy and NASCAR stuff: not compliant. Cool and safe at 200mph but not compliant for your dd. Go figure. ?
Most hoses today are jacketed and thus the contamination from dust is far less than it was 25yrs ago. That's a good thing. But I'd agree that proper routing and chaffing can be an issue...that's not a hose thing, that's an installer thing.
I too have never found a banjo to be restrictive. The inside of -3AN hose is extremely small now. Somehow folks believe that fluid displacement is a bid deal. It's not. The amount of fluid moving in that hose when you touch the brakes is tiny. Someone do the calculations on piston area to volume when you displace a pad by .010"...I bet it not much more than a teaspoon.
I would agree that non banjo ends are better for racing however. Not for function but for safety- debris on track can (and seen) be picked up and wrapped up on a union causing the banjo bolt to loosen up. For that reason alone I'd probably do hard fittings- but that's just me and many do fine on bolts and washers.
The other misconception I've stated before: "DOT APPROVED"....no they aren't. They could be DOT Compliant yes. But there's no approval for hoses sold in the US to be "passed" and labeled as such. The big issue is unions. A banjo/bolt assembly is compliant, yet my desired hard adapter to AN3 Swivel (while a near industry racing standard) is not. Any 'hand made' cutter type end found on Indy and NASCAR stuff: not compliant. Cool and safe at 200mph but not compliant for your dd. Go figure. ?
06-26-2015, 10:08 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Keep in mind that most "Wilwood ss hose kits" are based upon the need for pipe thread adapters into their aluminum body calipers and are not designed for oe use. There are some that use the banjo end and are specific to a chassis and oe caliper also. Pay close attention as you shop.
Most hoses today are jacketed and thus the contamination from dust is far less than it was 25yrs ago. That's a good thing. But I'd agree that proper routing and chaffing can be an issue...that's not a hose thing, that's an installer thing.
I too have never found a banjo to be restrictive. The inside of -3AN hose is extremely small now. Somehow folks believe that fluid displacement is a bid deal. It's not. The amount of fluid moving in that hose when you touch the brakes is tiny. Someone do the calculations on piston area to volume when you displace a pad by .010"...I bet it not much more than a teaspoon.
I would agree that non banjo ends are better for racing however. Not for function but for safety- debris on track can (and seen) be picked up and wrapped up on a union causing the banjo bolt to loosen up. For that reason alone I'd probably do hard fittings- but that's just me and many do fine on bolts and washers.
The other misconception I've stated before: "DOT APPROVED"....no they aren't. They could be DOT Compliant yes. But there's no approval for hoses sold in the US to be "passed" and labeled as such. The big issue is unions. A banjo/bolt assembly is compliant, yet my desired hard adapter to AN3 Swivel (while a near industry racing standard) is not. Any 'hand made' cutter type end found on Indy and NASCAR stuff: not compliant. Cool and safe at 200mph but not compliant for your dd. Go figure. ?
Most hoses today are jacketed and thus the contamination from dust is far less than it was 25yrs ago. That's a good thing. But I'd agree that proper routing and chaffing can be an issue...that's not a hose thing, that's an installer thing.
I too have never found a banjo to be restrictive. The inside of -3AN hose is extremely small now. Somehow folks believe that fluid displacement is a bid deal. It's not. The amount of fluid moving in that hose when you touch the brakes is tiny. Someone do the calculations on piston area to volume when you displace a pad by .010"...I bet it not much more than a teaspoon.
I would agree that non banjo ends are better for racing however. Not for function but for safety- debris on track can (and seen) be picked up and wrapped up on a union causing the banjo bolt to loosen up. For that reason alone I'd probably do hard fittings- but that's just me and many do fine on bolts and washers.
The other misconception I've stated before: "DOT APPROVED"....no they aren't. They could be DOT Compliant yes. But there's no approval for hoses sold in the US to be "passed" and labeled as such. The big issue is unions. A banjo/bolt assembly is compliant, yet my desired hard adapter to AN3 Swivel (while a near industry racing standard) is not. Any 'hand made' cutter type end found on Indy and NASCAR stuff: not compliant. Cool and safe at 200mph but not compliant for your dd. Go figure. ?
The only two options I see are stop tech and russell....I like the look of russell for the hard fitting vs stop tech has the banjo...but i have experience with neither brand. I will have to base my purchase on reviews and so far the russell performance lines have a positive review
06-26-2015, 11:21 PM
#20
I originally went with goodridge. the rears were not sealing up nicely after we discovered the above fiasco. I don't know if that's to blame due to being fitted on the original fittings or if they were just poor quality, but I have goodridge fronts and stop tech rears now .. the stop techs seemed nicer. : )